h a l f b a k e r yIdea vs. Ego
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people have talked about huge magrail guns forever.
they are not practical.
the best most practical magrails are those tested by the military for placing artillery on naval destroyers.
the cannons are not hundreds of meters long . that is simply impractical.
it's time to find a way
to launch 1kg packages to space LEO routinely.
DECADES of research into SingleStageToOrbit rocket and 'space gun' packages have failed. even the great werver van braun speculated that a rocket launched by a giant gas gun could work.
alas, the gas gun era of launching things is over and gas guns are now only used for launching high speed projectiles for testing materials in nasa labs.
however, the magrails are certainly practical, short, and the future of A LOT of research funding. even just this week the navy openly demoed their magnetic tug for launching aircraft off of carrier decks that will replace steam power.
so why not try launching a single stage rocket to high speed via a magentic rail launcher and have a self igniting the rocket whose ignition results directly from the high speed air that hits the rocket as it leaves the magrail tube.
seems like it's worth a 'shot'. :)
"Coil Gun" Magnetic launch systems
https://en.wikipedi.../?title=Mass_driver
[MechE, Jun 24 2015]
Old variation on the theme
The_20Denver_20Inte..._20Peaple_20Shooter
At least part of the lower atmosphere can be bypassed, anyway. [Vernon, Jun 24 2015]
Project HARP (not HAARP)
https://en.wikipedi...g/wiki/Project_HARP
On November 18, 1966 the Yuma gun fired a 180 kg Martlet 2 projectile at 3,600 m/s (12,000 ft/s) sending it into space briefly and setting an altitude record of 180 km (590,000 ft; 110 mi); that world record still stands [Custardguts, Jun 24 2015]
Fireball XL5
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=6ifS2nP53Zs
Years ahead of its time. One of my favourite programmes. [xenzag, Nov 08 2015]
[link]
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Um, magnetic catapults are WKTE, using them for space
launches is far from a new idea. |
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The problem is not how to launch, it's how to launch
through 100km of atmosphere. |
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Yes, in theory a catapult assisted rocket solves some of
that, but to date, I have yet to see a design where the
cost (in terms of weight) of reinforcing the rocket to take
catapult induced stresses, didn't outweigh the benefits of
the assist. Research is ongoing, however. |
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"use a linear motor variation to launch stuff into space" isn't new. Even if you were to just Search the HB, you'd find a dozen ideas which propose _how_ to do it, which you don't. |
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[marked-for-account-review] |
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seriously, you can see the table of categories in front of you, and other members have repeatedly mentioned different options for including a category in your post, which may be more convenient for some users. |
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I'm not a mod, but your postings are coming across as a contempt, not only for random readers, but for other members. |
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Mr Bull (see link) was well on the way to developing an artillery-launched rocket into orbit, but ran afoul of limited budget and poor decision making. |
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Turns out the exact technology used for launching rocket/satellite assemblies at high speed can be turned to launching intercontinental (or at least, ridiculously long range) artillery. |
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Ultimately, everyone was climbing over each other to assassinate him, with the Israelis being rumoured to have actually done it. |
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The obvious question is - why magrail and not artillery? Why not light gas gun as per project QUICKLAUNCH? |
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This is well trodden ground. |
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//marked-for-...// In fairness, I don't think [slab]
returns to read his posts or comments after writing.
Irritating, but then I expect I irritate many also. |
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indeed , i'm well aware of the martlett. |
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i've spoken numerous times with someone who actually
new gerald bull. when he work with him as a young man
and worked on gas guns. |
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it is indeed possible the martlett report was a lie. the
martlett succeeded in getting high altitutde but was
reported to have numerous problems and no where near
close to getting into orbit ( as opposed to breaching the
100mile line) |
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perhaps the reports were a lie and such a system is more
than capable then and still now. however, on its face,
the gas gun and martlett failed. |
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why magnetic instead of gas gun? |
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because magnetic is the future and is only getting better
and more powerful AND is currently the technology being
integrated into all future naval designs. gas guns are the
past. |
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it's time to accept that. magrail is the future. |
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why is that the case?
elimination of overpressures in a barrel by an expanding
gas creates a lot of wear on the inside of the barrel. |
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ALSO---fire risk.
ALSO---you need much longer barrel.
also -----you get a much more dangerous area at the
outside of the muzzle, and flash and shockwaves and
other problems |
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Just as well, the old one didn't last very long. |
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Look into my eyes, look into my eyes, you're feeling
very sleepy.....repeat after me
rockoon...rockoon...rockoon ...and when you wake
up, you won't remember anything about signing both
kidneys over to me, 1, 2, 3.. |
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**pst - [nrm], while you've got [slab] under, can you
get him/her to find his/her shift key, and understand
the category system?** |
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[slab], I don't think the question is over magrail
versus gas guns. |
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The problem is that (a) this isn't a new idea and (b)
the problem remains that you have a projectile
travelling at several miles per second through dense
lower atmosphere. It's arse about face. |
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Hmm, if you want to protect something like solar panels
that need to unfurl later, what if you put them in a
container and fill it with water? If the components are
neurally buoyant, they will be fully supported during the
acceleration. Once in space, the container can be opened,
the water vaporized, and the panels deployed. |
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Mercury might be an interesting alternative to water.
What would happen if you ended up with a large amount of
mercury vapor in orbit? |
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//neurally buoyant// That's me. |
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Actually, I propose "neural buoyancy" as a tagline. |
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//What would happen [...] if [...] a large amount of
mercury vapor in orbit?// Nothing. |
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Read Douglas Adams' description of how big space is. Then
realize that if you take the total volume of all the mercury
available on Earth, and divide that number by the total
volume of Low Earth Orbit, you get (essentially) zero. |
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What is the obsession with proper categorizing? I don't notice the category in which an idea is, except when one of the commenters complains about it being wrong. |
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//mercury vapour in orbit ?// Aurora Borealis turns turquoise ? |
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//What is the obsession with proper categorizing?//
Everything you don't put in a category, somebody else has
to do for you. It's how the site works - everything in a
category. The site owner isn't paid for this; she has
another job. But you insist that she has to come and clean
up after YOU because YOU don't see any value in not
littering her space. |
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Like [FlyingToaster] - I'm not a moderator, but if I were,
you'd be out. The site owner is far too nice, and we may
be a bit more protective of her than is absolutely
necessary. On the other hand, we get this whole
playground for *free*, and if [Jutta] ever decides "Screw
it, it's too much work..." it'll all be gone in an instant. If
you don't care that you might make it all go away, then
I'd humbly request you take yourself off without messing
things up for everyone else. |
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//categorizing?// well, for starters, it helps avoid posting already done ideas and helps other people from reposting yours. This is especially useful when you go to post an idea that's just a bit shy of bleedin'obvious. |
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[lurch] your comments are a bit displaced: [ttd] isn't the poster. |
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//werver van braun// ah yes, Eva's second cousin, the Dutch arm-wrestling champion 1932-1936. |
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////werver van braun// ah yes, Eva's second
cousin// |
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Are you sure you're not thinking of Martin van Buran,
American president and inventor of the Soviet space
shuttle? |
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//[lurch] your comments are a bit displaced: [ttd] isn't the
poster.// <red faced, picks up sign, moves to the back of
room, still muttering unintelligibly> |
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No offense [teslaberry] but you are the incarnation of [treon] and I'll collect my five dollars. |
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I kinda miss [treon]. He was good for a head scratch or two. |
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//red-faced// Nonono, stay where you are: your heart's in the right place... if you could just move the rest of your body over a bit to match... :D |
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//Are you sure you're not thinking of Martin van Buran, American president and inventor of the Soviet space shuttle//
Writing a note, while inebriated, to Congress stating that they should "light a firecracker under Tsar Nicholas' arse", may have hastened the Alaska purchase, but is hardly "inventing the Soviet space shuttle". |
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You're thinking of Mamie van Doren, famous actress and inventor of the 1940's. |
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Because of the actual mechanics of mag-rail, can't the tracks be lengthened for a slow acceleration build up?. This can't be done with gas guns. Most theme parks have the U track which could be massively scaled up, some several miles. |
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With regards to [Max] it would be nice to shoot the eye of a cyclone. |
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LLNL developed the Inductrak technology (see Skytran in
wikipedia) exactly for that purpose. So its not your
halfbaked idea, its NASA's and other developers beginning
with futurists from the 1950s. |
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The Large Hadron Collider uses a smaller loop to build energy levels before firing out into the main beamline. Perhaps a similar approach could be used to shorten the required length of a magrail launcher? |
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I guess a series of coils could launch a space craft. But I think it may work with a maglev or monorail system for acceleration. Though it would take lots of electricity to do. |
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If you've got a circular track, your craft has to be
reinforced for sideways acceleration. And you're still
hitting atmosphere at speed, which isn't going to
work. |
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A really good ultracentrifuge with a 10cm-radius
rotor can reach maybe 100,000 RPM, which is
something like 1000m/s, and almost a million G. |
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Baked in the early 60s. - see last link |
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Well, it may work up the side of Olympus Mons one of these days to get objects/minerals into Mars orbit, but for now, and from Earth, you'd might as well try firing the railgun underwater. Less of a debris field that way. |
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