h a l f b a k e r yThe best idea since raw toast.
add, search, annotate, link, view, overview, recent, by name, random
news, help, about, links, report a problem
browse anonymously,
or get an account
and write.
register,
|
|
|
This is actually a follow-up concept
(rhetorical backslap :p ) to certain
unimaginative utterings directed against
my
brilliant and eco-friendly "Paper or Plastic"
Satellites idea. ;)
And why not use components that decay
over
time, (say 10 years or so? See how often
you have to
upgrade your computer?)
Diagrams and schematics can be printed
out on paper, right? Print out the circuit
itself! 3D printers are capable of creating
accurate solid models thru layering with
photopolymer solutions, and can 'wick in' a
variety of metals for added strength; think
ink-jet adaptation!
Yeah, it may be cheesy, but it's still feasi-;
let's see if I can't earn more fishbones for
my defensible position.
Please log in.
If you're not logged in,
you can see what this page
looks like, but you will
not be able to add anything.
Destination URL.
E.g., https://www.coffee.com/
Description (displayed with the short name and URL.)
|
| |
Well, most things that "decay over time" suffer something like a logarithmic decline - think radioisotopes with half-lives. even if it's not truly logarithmic, it'll at least follow a bell-curve <normal distribution> and have a similar effect. |
|
| |
So-oooo, if the components in your computer have a half-life of 10 years, and you have 1 million individual components, each of which is critical for the function of your system - expect it to last maybe an hour or so. |
|
| |
Well CG, I can't be that far off. NASA
still uses recycled f o a m decade after
decade with their shuttles. Maybe you
know, what's the half-life on a piece of
papyrus? |
|
| |
... I was just responding to the //components that decay over time, (say 10 years or so? // part. |
|
| |
If they use stuff decade after decade, where does the "decays over 10 years" part come in>? |
|
| |
The originating idea was about
permanent sky fixtures that won't cost
$60M dollars for a quick fix...
...you've gotta go back to "Paper or
Plastic" Satellites; eh, maybe not, you'll
just probably give me another fish. |
|
| |
You will find that I have never, not even once, given you a fish. |
|
| |
What's the idea? That printed circuits should be printed? Newsflash; they already are. |
|
| |
I thought this would be an idea to 'print' multi-layered sandwiches using the techniques currently used for circuit printing like photolithography or techniques used for semiconductor materials manufacture, such as molecular beam epitaxy ("I'll just lay down a 0.5mm layer of Dijon mustard and then the 1mm sputtered layer of duck pate..."). |
|
| |
There's a reason that PCBs and circuits are made on the substrates they are printed on - durability and feasibility. The grain of paper, coupled with its well, just bad-for-circuitry nature would mean instant failure for such a process.
Wire wound resistors can reach in excess of 500 deg (f) alone, and if you've done your science fiction reading, you'll know that's a rather bad temp for having near paper.
Additionally, you'll see, if you look at it, that the circuit industry is constantly adapting new technology (substrate copper elimination, copper deposition, and now lead free ROHS) to make things last LONGER and have less environmental impact.
Don't get me started on the idea of "wicking" metals. The capillary action involved in such a process versus the actual final size of wires in real circuitry... the problem that it isn't just "metal", but precise layers of different types of metal and *other* elements, like, oh, silicon.... oh dear. no, it is not "feasi-;" at all. sorry.
Why would you want things to break after 10 years or so anyway? Computers don't "break" after 10 years, they're replaced by people suckered into the "newer is better" phenomenon.
Oh, and the 3d printers for printing solid models are nowhere near accurate and repeatable enough to create circuitry. |
|
| |
Geez! You guys are murder..! |
|
| |
Angel: Duh! Photolithography has been
used for years in manufacturing circuit
boards. Eliminate the substrate and print
textured circuits on film. You could
roll'em up like Fruit Roll-Ups, stuff'em in
a tube and watercool'em for all I care! |
|
| |
Hippo: .. Cost effective, no maintenance,
no fuss satellites, fully consumable
products. |
|
| |
Ian T: I seriously thought everyone
would recognize the quoted phrase:
Paper or Plastic. That's a customary
query that is asked at a store checkout
line so as not to offend people who are
conscious of recycling issues. |
|
| |
But now since we're 'all fell out da box',
iron pyrite solution might do well
replacing real gold, (hey, it's conductive
and is a paper element) Mylar for signal
transmission is a currently used plastic,
and if they aren't using fiber optics now
they should be..
Fuel tanks. Replace metal tanks with
weaved nylon and polymer resin tubes.
Or just go all out Solar, and use
microwaves to convert a 10 year supply
of natural coal into dilthium energy. |
|
| |
But as always, this idea is merely
HalfBaked! Now, where's my fish?! |
|
| |
EricScottF: really appreciating your
qualified input! |
|
| |
Seein as this was initially a narrative
parody in opposition to 'impossibility' a
word not in my vocabulary, I feel
compelled to ask why laying circuits with
this imaginative process would require
excessive heat? I figured the patterns
would be created with a conductive,
metal (Au, Mo, porphyry copper) infused
poly vinyl pyrrolidone based ink? |
|
| |
{sorry, don't have my Wiki right in front of
me; gotta go with what I can remember
page to page} |
|
| |
I've heard the "paper or plastic" phrase in American supermarkets, but not lately--everybody uses plastic bags now, or sells re-usable bags made of recycled materials. |
|
| |
Which brings up the concept that this idea interferes with: recycling. Most earth-bound electronics can be recycled, or built to be friendlier to recycling. Building them to decay doesn't work with that. |
|
| |
Otherwise: Manufacturers want to save costs, both in materials and production, and they want to sell new products. If they could be printing with rust onto toilet paper and getting a reliable planned obsolescence, they'd be doing it. I know I've bought some shite products. |
|
| |
In space, on the other hand, reliability is important. Replacement and repair are incredibly expensive, mostly through transport costs. Disposal of an out-dated satellite isn't a problem, really, what with parking orbits and re-entry, but a broken-down satellite is a major pain. |
|
| |
"Where is the milk of human kindness my lord?" |
|
| |
"It's gone off, It stinks." |
|
| |
I didn't say that using this imaginary method would require excessive heat - i said that your substrate (paper - really, this is a joke, right?) would not hold up to the heat generated by standard electronic equipment such as wire wound resistors (the boxy white things that get HOT) which are in plenty of power supplies.
Not to mention heat sinks, which can be heavy and require stable mounting, and the fact that you can crack traces on regular circuit boards - imagine how much more cracking would happen if the boards were now of newspaper-like rigidity! |
|
| |
//Angel: Duh! Photolithography has been used for years in manufacturing circuit boards.//
Yes, that's what I said; given that you know this, what have you invented?
// Eliminate the substrate and print textured circuits on film.//
The film then becomes the substrate; you're just using a different one.
//You could roll'em up like Fruit Roll-Ups//
Flexible printed circuit elements have been around for a very long time. Again I ask; what have you invented? |
|
| |
Have a look inside a PC keyboard, for example. |
|
| |