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Godwin's Law asserts that as soon as Adolf Hitler or Nazis are mentioned in a forum thread, then that thread is effectively ended as far as reasonable discussion is concerned.
A new "law" is proposed in addition to Godwin's Law, but substitutiing "Donald Trump" for "Adolf Hitler".
Trump + Hitler = Hitler
http://images.huffi...hitlertimefaux1.jpg
[xenzag, Jun 06 2016]
"Everybody I Don't Like Is Hitler"
http://imgur.com/SjQclIQ
A child's guide to online political discussion. [doctorremulac3, Mar 20 2017]
https://xkcd.com/261/
[hippo, May 07 2020]
Liquid Death sparkling water.
https://liquiddeath.com
Tastes good, I'd like a little heavier carbonation. It's similar to Perrier but with more references to sadistic murder and violent death. [doctorremulac3, May 07 2020]
The World Turned Upside Down
https://www.nytimes...ng-the-english.html
as viewed through the lens of America in 1973 [calum, May 20 2020]
The Thirty Years War
http://www.thefrumi...ar-by-c-v-wedgwood/
through the lens of some internet rando [calum, May 20 2020]
North Minehead By-Election
https://www.youtube...watch?v=hWIyVRNAxCg
...by Python, Monty. [DrBob, May 27 2020]
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Annotation:
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By mentioning Hitler, Trump and (meta) Godwin's Law in the idea body, is this entire idea //effectively ended as far as reasonable discussion is concerned// ? |
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Given that Trump and Hitler are identical and interchangeable in every way, there has to be some way to permanently separate them. Perhaps Hitler could somehow get Trump's Mexican friends to build another wall, to keep them from constantly being in each other's company, though it would be a shame to see them kept apart. |
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Isn't it odd how you never see Trump and Hitler together at the same time ? |
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// is this entire idea //effectively ended as far as reasonable discussion is concerned// // |
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That's just the sort of thing Nazis would say, [mit]... |
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I think there's a new one born every generation. Sort of
like an anti dalai lama. |
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He also loved dogs, made the trains run on time, and opposed the sale of Indulgences by the Catholic church ... what's not to like ? |
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What [RayfordSteele] said. It's light versus dark. Been there
since the dawn of time. No light without dark, no dark
without light. Bingo. And I didn't even mention either
assholes. |
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Thankfully looks like we get spared the Sanders
Lenin comparison |
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In Germany, I suspect the trains already ran on time. |
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History-of-ideas footnote: I believe the origin of Godwin's Law can be traced back to Adorno's "Negative Dialectic" (Frankfurt 1966). This book gave Nazism the status of a sort of metaphysical absolute, so that, thereafter, ethics could be defined on a foundation of "anything but that". With hindsight, the path from there to "You're the Nazi!" "No, you are!" should, perhaps, have been predicted. |
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Colonel Sanders looks nothing like John Lennon. Not even
the same style of glasses. Can't sing,
either. |
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True, tho his lyrics aren't bad. But overall, as a group they'd have been nowhere without McCartney. |
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// dark without light. // |
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Actually, that's exactly what dark is, because ... |
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<recalls [bliss]'s tennis-playing style and resolution not to provoke her> |
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I actually thought about that myself, but then thought no one
would notice and said it anyway. Ha. |
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I'm still on for a crowd-funded shutdown of twitter until the next election... |
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Reagan, Nixon, Kennedy, Johnson, Carter, Bush1, Bush 2, Clinton1, Fillmore, Lincoln, Washington, Roosevelt 1, Roosevelt 2. Only one of these makes me want to slightly upchuck. |
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But not gonna write the T word, No Nope ain't gonna do it. Back, Back, I say. |
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No Eisenhower? Isn't that the last president we can all agree
on? Yes? No? Kicked ass in warfare but warned of the military
industrial complex. Build the highway system as a national
project but was a big time capitalist. Screwed up the U2
thing but other than that did about as good as I've ever seen
a president do. |
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In fact, I've never heard anybody who doesn't like Ike. Maybe
we should have somebody run on a "What would Ike do?"
platform. |
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"O brave new world, which has such features in it !" |
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// Kicked ass in warfare // |
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Debatable. Ike was a coalition leader, not a field commander; he did the job well enough, but through capable subordinates, not personally. |
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Field Marshal The Viscount Montgomery of Alamein described him as "Nice bloke, not a soldier." |
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Well, by today's standards let's put it this way: |
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I'll settle for that in this day and age. |
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Which will promote more mental growth - Why did that
conversation suddenly go dead because of some strange
rule? or Strange, that fact, that supports their feeling of
the argument, isn't one I have heard before. |
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We suggest that it is called the Tindale Index, in memory of the late Ian Tindale. |
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Well, maybe it could be the Eladnit Index, in memory of the late Ian Tindale. |
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Here's the difference: Mentions of Hitler punctuate
all POLITICAL discussions.Yyou could be talking about
shoelaces and Trump would eventually be brought
up. |
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I'm not so sure of that. I've seen people called Hitler for
nonpolitical posts elsewhere. |
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Citing Hitler is the ketchup of conversation, you can put it
on
anything but it's not necessarily good. |
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Apologies for overusing the tired old Hitler/ketchup
comparison. |
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"Hitler's Tomato Ketchup" ? |
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"Hitler's 57 Varieties" - all others are forced into cattle trucks and taken away to camps ... |
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That reminds me of a clickbait product that
recently purchased because I thought the ad was
kind of funny. It's a canned sparkling water that
brags about "murdering your thirst". |
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Then I read the small print on the can, it not only
describes in grusome detail how it murders your
thirst, it gets into basically torturing it. |
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I'm fine with painlessely putting my thirst to sleep
in a non
cruel fashion, I don't need to hear its screams of
agony. |
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You'll never get promoted to Sturmbannführer with an attitude like that ... |
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I can think of no other world leader who has been
so often compared to Hitler than Trump. They just
go together so well. I suppose if it walks like a
duck, quacks like a duck, etc, then it's Hitler! Ha...
Trumpdolf, the only elected leader in the entire
history of the world to recommend injecting
yourself with bleach. |
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No, no no, you can either elide "Donald and "Adolf", or "Trump" and "Hitler". |
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So you could have "Donolf", or "Adnald", or "Trumpler" ... |
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But it doesn't make sense to mash together part of a first name with part of a last name. |
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//I can think of no other world leader who has
been
so often compared to Hitler than Trump.// |
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So if Trump is worse than Hitler, I guess that means
Hitler
is better than Trump? |
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Can you elaborate on that Xen? List specifically
how
Hitler is a better than Trump. |
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This should be interesting. |
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oh jesus, I'm away for a couple of days and this... |
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Hey, I'm completely down with not talking about
Trump anymore. |
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Xen, seriously, how much time do you spend every
day obsessing about this guy? |
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There you go..... Inviting and even looking forward
to comparisons being made between Hitler and
Trump. My point is proven yet again. |
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Boy, if there's a subject that's more interesting than
talking about Donald Trump over, and over, and over,
and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and
over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and
over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and
over, and over, and over I have yet to hear about it. |
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Unless of course it would be talking about Donald
Trump over, and over, and over, and over, and over,
and over, and over, and over, and over, and over,
and over, and over, and over, and over, and over,
and over, and over, and over, and over, and over,
and over, and over, and over, and over, and over,
and over, and over, and over, and over, and over,
and over, and over, and over, and over, and over,
and over, and over, and over, and over, and over,
and over, and over, and over, and over, and over,
and over, andover, and over, and over, and over,
and over, and over, and over, and over, and over,
and over, and over, and over, and over, and over,
and over, and over, and over, and over, and over,
and over, and over, and over, and over, and over,
and over, and over, and over, and over, and over,
and over, and over, and over, and over, and over,
and over, and over, and over, and over, and over,
and over, and over, and over, and over, and over,
and over, and over, and over, and over, and over,
and over, and over, and over, and over, and over,
and over, and over, and over, and over, and over. |
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The above is a riddle. Can you find the city in
Maryland hidden in the previous post? |
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By the way, the commas represent a pause, don't
read this quickly, read "and over" then give a long
reverant pause before reading the next one. Maybe I
need those three dots that actually have a name. |
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Hold on a second, I think I might have though of
something that's even more interesting than
talking about Donald Trump over, and over, and
over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and
over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and
over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and
over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and
over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and
over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and
over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and
over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and
over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and
over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and
over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and
over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and
over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and
over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and
over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and
over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and
over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and
over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and
over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and
over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and
over, and over. |
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I'll have to work it a bit, but I'll post it shortly. Now
it's just a theory in the works, but I think I really
might be on to something. |
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Doc, seriously, how much time do you spend every
day obsessing about this guy? Ha! He lives in your
brain, along with his constantly whirring
helicopter. |
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Xen, you're a genius! You've showed me the error
of my ways for thinking about anything else other
than
Donald Trump all these years! How could I have
been such a fool?
Here's what we'll do from now
on! Instead of talking about anything else, we'll
just talk about the only thing that's more
interesting than the idea above! We'll talk about
Donald Trump over, and over,
and over, and over, and over, and over, and over,
and over, and over, and over, and over, and over,
and over, and over, and over, and over, and over,
and over, and over, and over, and over, and over,
and over, and over, and over, and over, and over,
and over, and over, and over, and over, and over,
and over, and over, and over, and over, and over,
and over, and over, and over, and over, and over,
and over, and over, and over, and over, andover,
and over, and over, and over, and over, and over,
and over, and over, and over, and over, and over,
and over, and over, and over, and over, and over,
and over, and over, and over, and over, and over,
and over, and over, and over, and over, and over,
and over, and over, and over, and over, and over,
and over, and over, and over, and over, and over,
and over, and over, and over, and over, and over,
and over, and over, and over, and over, and over,
and over, and over, and over, and over, and over,
and over, and over, and over, and over, and over,
and over, and over, and over, and over, and over,
and over, and over, and over, and over, and over,
and over, and over, and over, and over, and over,
and over, and over, and over, and over, and over,
and over, and over, and over, and over, and over,
and over, and over, and over, and over, and over,
and over, and over, and over, and over, and over,
and over, and over, and over, and over, and over,
and over, and over, and over, and over, and over,
and over, and over, and over, andover, and over,
and over, and over, and over, and over, and over,
and over, and over, and over, and over, and over,
and over, and over, and over, and over, and over,
and over, and over, and over, and over, and over,
and over, and over, and over, and over, and over,
and over, and over, and over, and over, and over,
and over, and over, and over, and over, and over,
and over, and over, and over, and over, and over,
and over, and over, and over, and over, and over,
and over, and over, and over, and over, and over,
and over, and over, and over, and over, and over,
and over, and over! |
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Oh my god... it just hit me.... there is... possibly...
one more thing that's even MORE interesting than the
idea I
just posted above. |
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Hold on, I'll have to work on it, but I believe it might
be the single greatest concept man has ever come up
with. Stand by, you'll want to refresh your screen
every few seconds... |
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The history of ketchup is actually mildly interesting.
Chinese fish sau |
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<insert two minutes hate>DIE DONALD DIE LIKE THE FETID
NINKUMTURD YOU ARE!!!</tmh> |
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ce gets Americanized, goes bigtime. |
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Andover is a high school in Bloomfield Michigan where I used
to live. |
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I strongly disagree! The history of catch-up is
actually fascinating as is the history of other foods
from that time such as Coca-Cola a cure for
stomach illness originally contained cocaine. These
products were made to deal with the fact that
before refrigeration meet especially if you lived in
the city, had a tendency to be rotten. Catchup and
specifically Hines catch up was made popular
because it would cover up the taste of this rotted
meat. Oh wait what am I saying yeah trump trump
trump trump trump whatever. Sorry, I got off track
there for a second. |
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I’m out for a run and using voice input. I disavow
any spelling errors that’s my stupid phone. |
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OK one more time and I’m throwing this phone in
the gutter I just about responsibility for any
spelling errors. I disavow |
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I do not take any responsibility for these spelling
days. |
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Errors errors errors errors errors errors |
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As Trump has proven beyond a shadowy doubt that the US
doesn't really need a capable president (or indeed ANY
president) to keep motorvating along I suggest everybody
simply blot out those parts of the news and get on with their
lives. |
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It could very well be that this was the grand plan all along;
to bumble egotistically along providing little or no value and
show that the primitive stone flywheel of Democracy (or
whatever it has mutated into) will turn regardless. |
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I'm struck by the nature of discussion of processes
here. There is none. It's "Trump does the wrong
process 100% of the time." and by implication "The
democrats have the right process 100% of the
time." Which suits the ruling class quite well. Keep the
prols fighting among themselves about stupid stuff,
but not examining what we do. |
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"Be a good little serf. Don't examine anything but
variations of Orange Man Bad." |
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You will never hear this: "I don't like Trump but I
agree with him on this one subject." |
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And if that thought were to cross your mind, you'd
be wise to know your place and keep your mouth shut.
Let that sink in for a second. |
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This is taking advantage of a natural process called
sociogenic mitosis, the process of tribalism to
divide us that used to cause us to separate into
different groups to expand the species. Now it's
just a natural instinct that's taken advantage of for
profit and control of the masses. First step is to keep us
at each other's throats. Divide and conquer. "Don't talk to
people you disagree with, that doesn't serve your rulers." |
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(silence from the crowd) Uhhh, orange man bad? |
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I guess what I'm saying is, it's fine to hate Trump, but does
that have to exclude discussion of the complicated
processes of running a society? Because I see that this one
note harangue has replaced debate which can actually be
beneficial to engage in. It's certainly more interesting.
Hating Trump is just sort of boring virtue signaling. Wanna
talk about it? Talk about what should be done and what
was done wrong, then listen to the other side if there is
one. Don't throw a brick and run away, get into the ring
and fight it out. |
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I don't care what we're told to do, debate is good. |
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//You will never hear this: "I don't like Trump but I agree with him on this one subject."// for exactly the same reason as why you will never hear this: "I don't like Hitler but I agree with him on this one subject." |
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And so the subjects don't get discussed, which I guess suits
you fine. |
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Discussing subjects can get complicated. Very risky too. You
might change your mind on something. |
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// You might change your mind on something. // |
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// you will never hear this: "I don't like Hitler but I agree with him on this one subject." // |
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What about "I like Hitler but I disagree with him on this one subject." ? |
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I think it's safe to say that might never have been uttered by
a single person. At least not in public anyway. |
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That or agreeing with everything he does but not liking him.
Either one would probably get you a visit to the death
camps. |
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You are so wrong on that. |
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You have obviously spent far too much time associating with pinko pseudo-commie bleeding-heat liberals, and far to little drinkin' moonshine with them good ol' boys from the Ennn Arrr Ay ... |
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Could be, I was wrong about something once before. |
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I thought I was wrong about something. Careless mistake. |
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I applauded Trump's early efforts with North Korea. I
can even show the Twitter history if you doubt it. |
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But since then I have failed to find much of anything
in which he has demonstrated any level of decency
or competence or compassion. When you fail at
level 1 of being a human you get nothing but
derision. I treat him with the same level of contempt
that I would any other hyperegotistical sociopath
with zero curiosity about others. For as long as he
continues to demonstrate sociopathic behavior I will
continue to complain about him, as is my civic duty.
When there is a sliver in your hand you go after it
until it is gone and the pain is gone. Deriding that
pain as simply "orange man bad" is caustic. |
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There are certain parts of the Republican party, and
indeed even people here who aren't even American
citizens who will rail about Hillary every time she is
mentioned, even though she's been out of office for
awhile now and hasn't been a candidate for nearly
half a decade and never has any demonstrable
crimes for which she will ever be tried by any actual
court. Where's the indignance against Clinton
Derangement Syndrome, which has been going on,
without merit, since 1980-something? Those who
turn a blind eye toward Trump's gross incompetence
and parade of mismanagement and corruption but
whine about Hillary are only demonstrating their real
motives. |
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//I applauded Trump's early efforts with North Korea// |
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OK, probably took courage to admit that and it's an actual
comment on an actual subject. |
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Which is the only thing that I find interesting. |
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Running society should be more about engineering
solutions to problems and less about judging those
solutions SOLELY by where they're coming from and who's
suggesting them. |
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It took no courage at all, honestly. |
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The problem with Trump is that he is all about who
and not about solutions. He personifies the worst
tendencies of parties. |
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"Sure." as in "accepted" or "Sure" as in "You're a lying dog
faced pony soldier!"? |
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LOL. I'll assume the former. |
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// He personifies the worst tendencies of parties. // |
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That's why he's so wonderful. He presages the inevitable downfall of representative democracy. |
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// Just trying to be nice. // |
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Sure as in the first meaning. I very rarely type
emotional reactions unless I really mean to, and
when I do it's pretty obvious. |
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I figured. (Virtual boxing glove bump) |
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<Dings bell for next round/> |
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My main objection is the placement of a Trump
post in the ‘Culture’ category. |
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It's a thing called "irony", [AC] ... it's a linguistic device employed by sophisticated writers, and may not be in common use in your geographical area. |
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Pffft, Western Australia has a plethora of iron
mines. |
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//Western Australia has a plethora of iron mines.// |
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That's the answer to a question that never occurred to me.
Now I'll spend the day wondering from where putters are
hewn. |
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Somewhere with a good supply of calcium carbonate; traditional putty is made from chalk and linseed oil. |
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Can you imagine if an aircraft was designed this
way? The way we're trying to run something
much more complicated, a civilization? |
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The red team and blue team tasked with taking a
bunch of rocks and mud out of the ground,
processing them and making them into a safe
aircraft that can travel at mach .9, go 7,000 miles
carrying 300 people in total comfort at 40,000
feet. |
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Day 1: Doctorremulac3, leader of the blue team. |
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"We're going to have to mine these ores, process
them into aluminum, pump this oil and process it
into plastic and then piece all these materials
together to make an aircraft. But first, it's
important that we address the fact that the leader
of the red team is worse than Hitler. How much
worse? That's what I've tasked our group to find
out. Is he 1,000,000 times worse or only 1,000
times worse? That's why we're asking for a big
budget increase, so we can research this. Plus we
want
the red team
prosecuted for future crimes they may be planning
so we can save time." |
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But sir, what about the airplane? |
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"Hmm, that's just what Hitler would say. GUARDS!". |
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I'm fascinated with the complex problems we face,
but
bored shitless of the lie that if we can just get rid
of
"those guys" or "that guy" all our problems would
magically melt away. They won't. In fact, they're
exacerbated
by us spending all our time fighting over stupid
shit. |
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I've mentioned before something I saw on a nature
documentary when I was a kid. It was two beetles
fighting
each other. They didn't notice the wombat
attracted to
the commotion. The wombat ate them both. |
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Always stuck with me. Felt like nature was sending
me
some kind of lesson, and that lesson is, of course, |
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beetles are fucking stupid. |
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The only "safe"-ish aircraft is one that's on the ground, with no fuel in it. And even then, you can fall out and hurt yourself. On larger aircraft it can be a long way down and it's quite remarkably painful. |
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Flight is irredeemably, inherently, unavoidably dangerous. To state otherwise is a blatant untruth. |
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You know that's just what somebody else would say
don't you? |
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//Can you imagine if an aircraft was designed this way? The
way we're trying to run something much more complicated,
a civilization?// |
|
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It's broader than that. There is an inverse relationship
between how important things are and how good we are at
them. |
|
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Take education. Mice don't matter, and so we have a full
and comprehensive evidence-based set of methodologies in
how to train them in practically everything they can be
trained in. |
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Children: Some of the world has figured out that hitting
them doesn't work if the goal is educating the child. But
most of the world hasn't. |
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Car racing doesn't matter, so we have extensive and
expanding methods to make cars hurtle across almost any
terrain, occasionally airborne and sideways, on varied fuels
with full pit stops performed in 3 seconds. |
|
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Running a country? We're proud that we got to the point
where we hold a popularity contest usually won by a
powerful individual positioned by some backroom deal-
making. And that's radically different than chimps is it? |
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That rather depends if they've spent any time crouching round the base of the Black Monolith or not. Then it tends to come down to "Who's got the biggest animal-bone club ?" |
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I've got a theory of why civilization GENERALLY
advances
though. That bone club eventually loses out to the
less
brittle wood club, that loses to the spear, that
loses out to the bow and arrow then the atom
bomb, and
these advances are brought about by the cleverest
guys in
the tribe, and although there are notable
deviations, the
cleverest guys are generally the ones who are
more
inclined to support the idea of an efficiently
constructed
civilization where the core part of that construct,
the
individual, does well. |
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Now of course, there's the big question, do free
societies
do better than ones where everybody is just
serving the
emperor, king or dictator? Maybe in the short run
the
dictatorships can get stuff done, but it's
the free societies that value the individual that
GENERALLY create better individuals, more
inclined to
function efficiently and make things like a better
spear or
hydrogen bomb. |
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If it's all about kissing up to the Pharaoh, people
are more
inclined to do whatever it takes to kiss the ass of
the
chosen one. Doing something risky like inventing a
crazy
new invention like the cannon isn't going to be
worth it
because you're stuck in your social strata anyway,
not
worth the risk. In a free for all society, a lowly
peasant
can actually raise to a kinglike stature, if he does
something better than how it was done before. |
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And if you were to take an ancient Chinese
emperor and
put him in a time machine and show him the US for
instance, with its moon rockets, nuclear bombs,
aircraft
and technology, he'd say "Let me meet the leader
of this
amazing civilization!" Then he'd walk out of the
meeting
and say "What a pussy! This guy has nuclear
weapons and
he doesn't even want to use them? Then he gets
impeached and doesn't have everybody involved
executed? How the hell did this civilization ever
survive
much less thrive?" |
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The idea of a free society based on the rule of law,
not
the rule of violence and murder would be very
bizarre,
even creepy to the ancients. |
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//What makes Trump refreshing is because he's a
sociopath.// |
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But not so much fun when he's also completely
incompetent and also the leader of your country. |
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It's what happens when you let ordinary people have a vote. |
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You did it to yourselves. Get over it. |
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//creepy to the ancients// |
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Have you read anything written by anyone ancient, [dr3]? |
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If you look at The Golden Bough (which is the founding text of
anthropology), it's full of instances from ancient and traditional
societies where the law was more important than the ruler. The
laws in question may have been weird and stupid, but the
principle that even the ruler should be subject to them is not
such a recent innovation. |
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I've never read anything, I don't read. |
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That being said, in referring to a general trend there are
going to be lots
of outliers that might contradict the point referring to
the aggregate, but I don't even know what those words
mean, they just
sound smartypants. |
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I just incorrectly read this idea as "Hitler Trump
Saw". This would obviously be the ultimate
fiendish cutting instrument, and used exclusively
for sawing the legs off non-Aryan migrant children
who had struggled ashore in Destin Florida after
swimming across the Golf of Mexico from Yucatan.
Ha |
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As long as they still have their arms, so they can work 19 hours a day in dirty, badly lit sweatshops for no money - just subsistence rations - making overpriced trainers for overweight Americans, that's just fine. |
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Some sort of clamp to hold the legs while the sawing is done is indicated. |
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Yes, we progressives need our serf class, slavery
gets
stuff done, and the new improved slavery gives you
the bonus of being able to pay workers shit wages
AND be able to virtue signal about being some kind
of
humanitarian at the same time. |
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(Sits back in the rocking chair on the porch of my
plantation watching the migrant
workers toil in the field for shit wages and
counting my
profits while posting anti Trump slogans on various
forums.) |
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//Some sort of clamp to hold the legs while the
sawing is done// Excellent. I'm now imagining a
comprehensive range of similar Hitler/Trump
products now that we have the child migrant's leg
saw established as a winner. They just go together
so well. |
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Hmm. Lots of violent torture fantasies today. Kind of
disturbing. |
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<Applies MIG welder to 4mm mild steel plate to fabricate fixed portion of clamp/> |
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[xen], do you envisage sawing both legs simultaneously, or one at a time ? |
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Do you want a channel and bucket for the blood, or can it just mix with the sawdust on the floor ? |
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We have an idea for a natty add-on in the form of a heated bowl for the hot tar. |
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You're focusing too much on the initial instrument. Use your imagination to see what waits in the Hitler/Trump tool box to deal with the millions who can't pay their medical bills or their rent, once the virus really gets to work and the bleach injection results have been rather less than promised. |
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We see a backhoe for digging mass graves, and a plentiful supply of glycerine, lampshades, and pre-owned shoes and spectacles. |
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Not as many gold teeth as we'd hoped, though, and amalgam fillings have zero aftermarket value. |
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The crematorium retorts will have to run on coal gas, not natural gas, but that's fine because there's plenty of coal to mine, and the coke is great for steelmaking. Guns AND butter... what could be better ? |
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Arbeit macht frei. "Work will set you free". But then of
course, Hitler just killed them. Before he did that, he put
them all in concentration camps (Like FDR to the Japanese).
Before he did that, he took all their guns away. Before he
did this, he labeled them with the star of David. Not worse
then Mao, though.. (or communism, in general). |
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Always hated how we never hear about Mao or Stalin as the
icons of evil that they are. I'm afraid it's because they still
have a lot of secret fans. |
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The numbers are not precise, but it's likely that both Stalin and Mao killed more people - of their own nations, as well as others - than Hitler. |
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Certainly the interwar famine in the USSR, a direct result of the collectivization of agriculture, killed many millions. The exact figures were concealed. Mao's Great Leap Downwards had the same result. |
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The conclusion ? "Humans are amazingly stupid and gullible, and make the same mistakes over and over again". |
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But it makes for great entertainment. |
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My grandparents escaped the Ukraine to get away from
Stalin, I'm guessing many of my relatives weren't so lucky
and were murdered by him. |
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That's why I find it distasteful to say the least to have the
horrific crimes of genocidal mass murderers marginalized
so somebody can virtue signal by saying "I disagree with
that person on some political policies so he's no different
than Hitler!". |
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Hitler slaughtered six million Jews. To say a politician you
disagree with is no different than him is incredibly
disrespectful to the memory of the victims of that horrific
genocide. |
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But since this is going to continue, can we at least start
comparing politicians we have slight disagreements with
to Pol Pot or Fidel Castro? How come Genghis Khan gets a
pass? |
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Khan was a conqueror; he wasn't, as such, genocidal. The migration of the Mongol peoples was driven as much by environmental and population pressures as a simple lust for more land. Geophysical events such as vulcanism, plus over-exploitation of resources, were a big factor. |
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He behaved quite badly and killed a lot of people but on the whole was probably no worse than the Europeans that colonized North America. |
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There is a distinct difference between taking over land from its existing rulers, and talking over with intent to exterminate the existing inhabitants. In general, the European colonial powers in Africa and Asia simply wanted natural resources, new markets, and tax revenues. They didn't explicitly attempt to wipe out the locals because that would be bad for business. |
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Hitler wanted to "cleanse" his new Lebensraum of Untermenschen. That's an utterly different mindset. |
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//he took all their guns away/ |
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Does anyone know how many guns were held by civilian
Jewish populations in central and eastern Europe *before*
the Nazis came to power? I'm guessing not very many at all.
But feel free to prove me wrong. |
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I've mentioned before one of 2 pictures that formed my
political views as a youth. One was a group of well
dressed good citizens doing the "right thing" and following
the orders of their government as they were told. Lining
up cooperatively to get on a train. They were Jews going
to an extermination camp. It begged the question, what
would I have done? Would I have dressed my children and
obediently marched with them to our death? |
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Plus, like I said, my grandparents came here to get away
from that kind of barbarism. Since I'm in America now
there's no place to run from here. Even if there was, I
wouldn't. |
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To be fair to Genghis, he did (IIRC) employ a number of
Chinese scholars in senior positions, because he
understood and respected the fact that they knew things
that he didn't. |
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That attitude on his part puts him ahead of both the
individuals named in the title of this idea. |
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(Psst - [8th] - outside the Star Trek universe, "Khan" is
generally a title rather than a name and, notwithstanding
that there are people called "Mr Khan" just there are
some called "Mr King", "Khan" was not Genghis' name.
Actually, neither was "Genghis", originally (see also
"Augustus"), but that's another story. Also, see also
"Khakan") |
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//Leopold II vs von Trotha// |
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Haven't heard of these guys, reading up now, thanks. |
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Jeez, couple of charmers. |
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I think in light of the disparity of infamy evil people
in history get for their atrocities "barbarism"
should be an area of studies taught in school. |
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But one thing: make sure all culture's history of
barbarism is included so it doesn't become some BS
political indoctrination where some cultures get a
pass and others don't. |
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I suppose you could just do the top act from about
say, ten diverse cultures. You might even then add
the top good deeds done by humanitarians from that
culture to offset any bad feelings towards that
culture these studies might create. |
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Just occurred to me, as morbid as we humans can be
sometimes, I'm guessing the college professor who taught
this course would have very full classes. |
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I love history because I discovered it myself. My history
teachers tortured me with dates, disconnected facts and
empty, pointless stories. History is fascinating if it's
described properly. |
|
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Here's my memory of a history course: |
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"In some year, some guy lead some other guys to sign a
treaty to do some stuff because some previous guys had
some trade deal that caused them to bring something to
their country from another country, do you remember
what that something was? Class? Anyone? Starts with a C?
Co... anyone? Coco.... remember class? Coco nuuuu..
coconuts. These guys signed the trade pact with the other
guys because in some year the guys brought coconuts
from one place to another which angered the king who
didn't like coconuts because he couldn't tax them because
the church deemed coconuts un-taxible due to the
ancient law of cocos tributum....." |
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If the first one is about un-intended consequences,
that should be another college course. |
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I'm not sure Jude Law would appreciate being lumped in
with Donald Trump and Adolph Hitler. |
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It's actually an imperative: Trump Hitler, Law! |
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An excellent history book written by someone
(philosophically / politically) on the losing side: The World
Turned Upside Down, by Christopher Hill.
An excellent march through the worst of European
depravity: The Thirty Years War, by CV Wedgwood. |
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Are there youtube clifnotes versions of all of these?
Reading list is getting pretty long. Especially since I
don't read unless I absolutely have to for work. |
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No, but you don't have to read them if you don't fancy it. It
is, I am assured, a free country. I have put some links up,
to save you approx 1,000 pages of reading. |
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Cool, I'll check them out. |
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Here's an idea; we'll send Trump-Hitler through a
beam splitter, and bounce them off of mirrors set at
a quarter Trump-Hitler wavelength apart so that
they'll emerge 180 degrees out of phase together
and cancel eachother. |
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Thank you for that link Doc, this post could use a little
lightening up. |
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