h a l f b a k e r ySuperficial Intelligence
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No birds would be harmed in the realisation of this idea, just their shells. |
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Not comprehending. Removing eyes, legs,
etc doesn't harm the bird? Or are you
thinking something like Sheldon, from that
comic strip? |
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Ovagami = bill fold? Yikes!, eww. Is there a purpose to this idea? |
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Definitely not a happy meal, I'm afraid. |
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[RayfordSteele], I think [2fries] is suggesting making shell holes *for* the legs, eyes, etc., rather than removing them. |
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I'd heard of those before, [normzone], but I didn't
think that they would look so... embryonic. Yechh. |
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Ah. What spacecoyote wrote. |
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Is the poster perhaps thinking of bonsai (ala "bonsai kitten") rather than origami? |
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hyphenation: "[...] surgically cut eye-, beak-, leg- and bottom-holes in the shell [...]" |
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Then, maybe, start a new sentence: "This is to allow the fowl's extremities to stick out and fluid to drain out." |
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OK, minding own business now. |
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Crap! It *was* bonsai kitten.(which I totally fell for by the way)
I should have specified more clearly, the eggshell is the only thing sliced. Thanks [pertinax], idea edited. |
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//Is there a purpose to this idea?// |
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Yes and no.
The comic aspect of watching a bunch of eggshells with legs running around of course, but I can't help but wonder if the chicks would think this normal and try to keep their shells as long as possible, or if they would still smash them at the first opportunity. |
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Ah - I think I see - the object is to create a cartoon style part hatched bird, with head, legs and wings emerging from an otherwise intact eggshell - yes? |
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I hypothesise that the chick will want out of the egg as soon as possible. They'll try to break the membrane, the fluid (albumen?) will flow out, and the remaining case will be like a soggy wet coat. I think that the instinct of the bird will be to cast off the casing ASAP so it can get on with growing and looking after its feathers. |
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<note to self; brainfarts are not for sharing> |
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For the most part, farts get shared with others, like
it or not, I've found. Brain or not brain. |
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What did it taste like, [norm]? |
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Would the egg recalcify? If it did, would the chick still have a viable skeleton? |
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Yes an eggshell can be re-calcified, and the chicken should be fine because the whole thing would just be another way of letting it out of its shell... if it wants. |
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But the calcium has to come from somewhere. How come there's enough left over for the skeleton? |
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Somewhere between hardboiled eggs and chicken, only much more so. |
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We are not on the same page [nineteenthly]...I'll be needing a few books to catch up I think.
The chicken will have gone through its entire gestation period and will have developed a strong skeleton. The vinegar would have to decalcify the shell in order to attack the bones right? So you just stop the process before it can affect the chick. |
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Come to think of it you could get the same results by just carefully hole sawing through the shell itself. |
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When I was a much younger person, I was told that a hatching chick built up its muscles by fighting its way out of the shell. Or something like that--we were not to help a chick get out of the shell. So this idea is going to end up with a weak chick devoting its untried muscles to lugging around a heavy shell. |
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// Allow egg shell to re-calcify // |
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There are tools that could trepan holes in an eggshell without decalcifying it first. |
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And how do you know how the chick is oriented in the shell when you start chopping holes for it? Or is that the point of the decalcifying? |
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There are a number of things i don't know about this. One is the mass of the calcium carbonate in the eggshell compared to the mass of the skeleton. Another is where the carbonate comes from. Another is whether egg shells recalcify or whether the eggshell is secreted by the mother's reproductive system. What i'm saying is, the calcium doesn't appear from nowhere (unless you're an anthroposophist and believe in alchemy), so it has to come from inside the egg. There isn't enough calcium in the egg's environment otherwise. Are you maybe suggesting it comes from the calcium acetate in the solution around the egg? How would you get it out of solution without boiling the egg? |
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I think the egg is just going to have to stay as it is once the shell's gone. Anything else is just too complex. |
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hmmmm
You'd know exactly how the chick is situated with bright candling, decalcification of the eggshell would increase this visibility, (though the chick might not like it).
The reason for decalcification rather than trepanning is to enable removal of the outer shell without cutting the inner sack.
The chick will have been fighting against its shell for some time and its muscles should be developed enough this close to birth.
When playing around with putting an egg into a bottle, the egg will recalcify on its own so the calcium must come from inside the egg itself, but the shell will absorb calcium externally as seen by how much faster the process happens when you add milk to the bottle, so I'm sure a way could be rigged up to help the shell recalcify before causing damage to the chicks bones. |
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If nothing else, it will answer that age old question of whether it is really a bad thing to help them out of their shells or not. |
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//The reason for decalcification rather than trepanning is to
enable removal of the outer shell without cutting the inner
sack.//
What you want is a miniature oscillating saw (a
miniature bone saw). That'll cut the shell & leave the
underlying delicate soft membraine unharmed; that's how
pathologists trepan. Or use a pituitary rongeur: that's how
a neurosurgeon would do it. |
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For information on in-ovo surgical techniques, Google "chick-
quail chimera." |
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Some years ago I read of a new tool that was intended for de-clogging hardened arteries. It was a long, snakey little drill that somehow flexed and followed hard material. The writer was given a demonstration involving an egg, which might be relevant. |
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He held the egg between thumb and forefinger, and the inventor fired up the drill and poked it in under his thumb. The writer could feel it whining along his skin, but when he looked, the drill had scored neatly along the shell, leaving no punctures in either skin or membrane. |
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Which is to say that the whole decalcifying business could be avoided, and the re-calcifying magic not invoked. We have the technology. |
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//We have the technology.//
The engineering version of "Because it's there." |
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We also have some 25% vinegar and a very fine syringe to drip it out of. |
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We also have to wonder why we don't just do a scan of the egg to establish the position of the chick, then use a jeweler's saw to cut the holes as soon as the poor thing starts trying to peck out. |
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Because I had no access to those techniques, so that would have been cheating. |
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Yes, the recalcification bit is a red herring, i agree. What about keyhole surgery? |
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You could probably tell well enough where the chick is by holding the egg up to a bright light. |
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That is what is meant by 'candling'.
<taps microphone>
"Is this thing on?" ; } |
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Sorry I didn't notice that post. |
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Just buggin ya.
Happy halloween btw. |
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//I can't help but wonder if the chicks would think
this normal// |
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My best friend used to say this to me a lot when we
were single and going out somewhere. |
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