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This is a repost. I unintentionally destroyed my account while trying to change my pseudonym. I apologize to those who responded since there appears to be no way to resurrect their messages.
One can buy lifelike mannikins of men and women for masturbation (see link below). The prices vary from
~$5000 to ~$7000. Should pedophiles be able to buy girl and boy dolls of various apparent ages to exhaust their lusts on? Remember that the dolls are just constructions of aluminum and silicon rubber.
Real Doll
http://www.realdoll.com
Makers of Lifelike Mannikins for Sex [ClamaviAdTe, Sep 10 2001, last modified Oct 04 2004]
Exploding Robot Children
http://www.halfbake..._20Robot_20Children
More like it? [sdm, Sep 10 2001, last modified Oct 04 2004]
Halfbaker Therapy
http://school.disco...tures/lr000531.html
In a similar vein to the logic behind this idea. [sdm, Sep 10 2001, last modified Oct 04 2004]
House of Rage
http://www.halfbake...a/House_20of_20Rage
Similar idea. Simply replace sexual urges with rage. [iuvare, Sep 10 2001, last modified Oct 04 2004]
Life Size action figures
http://www.amy.hi-h...gs/pmoon/index.html
These would probably do the trick [benfrost, Sep 10 2001]
MollyRama
http://www.mollyrama.com
Perhaps she could be your model? [AfroAssault, Sep 10 2001, last modified Oct 04 2004]
MakePure
http://www.makepure.com
Fully baked in Japan it seems [gordy, Nov 23 2004, last modified Feb 16 2009]
[link]
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lewisgirl,UnaBubba, Repellant as they are, paedophiles exist and may be living near you. Surely anything that might provide a safe outlet for these people's urges must be considered preferable to the alternative. Having said that, I won't be buying shares in the company that sells these "dolls". |
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I don't know if this is such a good idea. I think it comes down to this: does such a device sublimate or stimulate pedophilic impulses? I, for one, would not want to be responsible for hazarding a guess. |
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[lewisgirl]. I second that, using a combination of [snarf]'s reasoning and a deep sense of nauseating disgust conjured by the issue of pedophilia… I guess the logic goes, if I find a web page to help you get your fishbone fix [see third link], you’ll stop posting strange ideas like this. |
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well, there's an ongoing debate over whether pornography encourages men to treat women as objects (and/or rape them), or whether it satisfies urges that would otherwise have unpleasant outlets, or neither. (afaik, the current statistics say "neither".) |
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snarfyguy asked the right question and Mephista's provided a good answer. |
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I disagree with this idea and will restate my opposition: providing life-like outlets for the wrong urges will only excite them, not make them disappear. |
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This idea is similar to the Zhade's "House of Rage" idea (see link). Both ideas are based on the assumption that acting out sick fantasies on life-like objects will lessen the desire to do these things in real life. I argue that improper urges of the kind mentioned do not HAVE proper outlets because they are based on the forceful submission of others against their will. Rape fantasies can never be fulfilled because it’s not rough sex; it’s sex AGAINST another person’s will—something that should never be fulfilled. Again, the fulfillment of the urge is based more on controlling another human and less on the physical act. A doll will only take the offender so far since it lacks a will to be controlled and therefore, cannot submit to the offender. Consequently, the offender will have even stronger urges for the real thing. I agree with tain, "I can see this as a potential breeding ground for all sorts of psychological ills. It could provide the necessary fodder for sociopaths to take their fantasies outside the walls." -tain "House of Rage" annotation 08/27/01 |
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Who's going to be the model? May I suggest the Olsen twins or Amanda Bynes. Oops, did I actually say that? |
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It's interesting to see various people get bent out of shape about someone getting off on an expensive piece of rubber. I can see why the conservatively-minded would object since they are suspiscious of most sexual pleasure. But the liberally-minded have opposed this sort of attention to private sexual activities when it concerns masturbation, adultery, promiscuity, sexual adventurism, and homosexuality. No direct harm occurs to anyone in the situation I've proposed, even less so than in the other cases. |
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The idea of polluting the social environment might be an valid argument if weren't for the fact that it's used in other cases in which public opinion isn't nearly so close to being unanimous. The debate over violence, sex, or advertising in the media is one such case that comes to mind. The evidence is equally vague as to the degree of influence and the proof of causality. |
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To make it clear, I'm not advocating the production of such dolls nor am I a pedophile. I'm interested in the nature of liberal, democratic societies, and what liberties they're prepared to grant and deny based on public opinion. This was sort of a thought experiment. My supposition is that such liberties are granted not mainly because of consistently-held principles, but because of the relative ability of various groups to promote a liberty that serves the interests of their members. |
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what is the half life of rubber? |
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how do you spell chlamydia? |
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Since when is disagreement considered a synonym for getting bent-out-of-shape? |
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I proposed a concise, sound argument to which, rather than argue against, you’ve simply dismissed as someone getting bent-out-of-shape. I also find it interesting to see you describe the doll as a “piece of rubber”, abstracting from what that doll represents and its purpose for being sold. What’s more, it’s interesting to see you consider abstract objections from conservatives & liberals who haven’t posted them, and consequently, cannot defend themselves. |
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In your previous the 3 paragraphs on 09/13/01, I find only 3 sentences that seem remotely connected to any of the annotations listed above. |
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//No direct harm occurs to anyone in the situation I've proposed, even less so than in the other cases.//
That’s true, but it also conveniently sidesteps the issue of inciting the wrong passions by providing a playground for acting out the wrong desires. |
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//The evidence is equally vague as to the degree of influence and the proof of causality.//
Since when do you throw out common sense in favor of statistics, polls and sample sizes? |
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//My supposition is that such liberties are granted not mainly because of consistently-held principles, but because of the relative ability of various groups to promote a liberty that serves the interests of their members.//
I agree with the former, not the latter, and don’t mind spelling-out the reasons on which these liberties are based: goodness, decency, the protection of our young and a concern for inciting the wrong desires in the mentally unstable. |
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You know, one of my friends was surfing the net(...wonder what he was searching for. e.e) and discovered a page where a man had actually done a page devoted to his realdoll..He said she was better than a real wife and had pictures of her dressedup, in the shower, in lingerie...It was kind of creepy, actually....But I suppose these realdolls are good for people who will never experience real companionship....eek...but still...e.e |
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Oh yes, they actually already have realdolls of young ages. Mostly in Asia, but yes, they have underage realdolls...and I think that's pretty scary, although I know some people use them for models...anyways, another random thought. |
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It's been my experience that anytime you work to suppress a deviant behavior and restrict available healthy outlets for it [and I will say, this is a healthy outlet for pedophiles].. it gets worse. Much worse. Nor do I think providing an outlet for these behaviors necessarily stimulates them; I'd say, in most cases, it relieves them so the individual can get on with his/her/society's expectations of a normal life. |
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That being said, here's some food for thought: browse the real doll website and you'd be surprised how many of the dolls available verge quite close to what is considered "pubescent" or younger. |
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Also. If someone is in the market to buy a "love doll" for personal use because maybe their experiences in relationships have failed, been unfulfilling, etc.. I say, let them bone whatever they want! There's even silicone molds for aliens on that site, so, come on! If the person's gonna spend their life in lusty seclusion, at least let them manhandle the plastic toy of their dreams! |
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I'm not surprised how much emotion this one has generated, I sure it was meant to. But I am surprised quite how negative it has been. Holland has recently passed a law legalising the drawing and animation of peadophile activities using exactly the same argument: we haven't been able to stop it so we might as well try to take the kids out of the loop. Being a staunch liberal, I take a similar view to this as I do on coprophilia - it's repulsive, but so long as no one gets hurt who are we to prevent it? [Snarfyguy] has it is a nutshell - this is the sort of decision you have to get right, but I don't buy iuvare's argument that this will cause more problems than it solves. |
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My gut feeling is that it will make precious difference either way as these problems are more about power games than sex and you can't play power games with a doll (can you?). However what I think, what you think, and common sense have nothing to do with this. If the statistics show that allowing paedophiles to use what can only be termed 'child-substitutes' will mean fewer children have to live with the nightmare, then this is a good idea. Do the research thouroughly - I hope to god the Dutch have. |
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[marked-for-deletion] for advocacy and a product widely known to exist |
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"I also see no reason not to lock someone up for the rest of his life for showing a clear prediliction for this sort of thing by purchasing a sex doll shaped like a child." |
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That's extreme as it might not indicate a predilection at all. What if an artist wanted to use one in her work? What if a child advocate wanted to use one as an example? |
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WHat if a lawmaker wanted to use one as an example of something that shouldn't be legal? ;-) |
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[admin: ignoring the MFD. I think the objections to this idea are ethical, not administrative - it's certainly not "widely known to exist".] |
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While the idea that child pornography, dolls like this
(there are at least 5 Japanese companies making
them) and things of this nature encourage active
pedophilia, all the research that's been
done
(precious little because of people like
you in this thread don't want to approach the
subject at all nor allow anyone else to approach
it)
has shown that it tends to make the
pedophile LESS LIKELY to commit her crime. |
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Pedophiles differ. Some can only get off on
children. Others could get off on anything and only
use children because they are easier to get. Then
there are the ones who are into power games.
Plus the ones who are labeled pedophiles because
they got caught having sex with someone who had
not reached their 'age of majority'. The point here
is that even if the dolls do reduce the misbehavior
of some, they are still just addressing a small
fraction of a symptom of the problem. |
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Urges vary in their intensity. The urge to piss can
get pretty intense, and people still manage to
avoid pissing in their pants. The urge to eat a
seventh cream puff can be very weak, and some
people still give in to it. Problems arise when
individuals are controlled by their urges.
You might say that some urges are uncontrollable.
Many tourettes sufferers and stutterers would
agree. I would agree, except in that I know how to
eliminate the glitches in my mind that create the
'uncontrollable' urges. The science of psychology
has finally reached the point where a real cure for
any mental illness not involving brain damage is
available. (Now how can 'curing' as opposed to
'treating' mental illness be made more profitable?)
Pedophilia occurs as a symptom of many different
illnesses, some mental, some social. Like
homelessness, the only real cure is more sanity in
the world. Do you know how to be sane? |
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Little Billy Goose Feathers has seen better days. :( |
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