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I would suggest something of the typical global
meetup
time, like noon Eastern to give the Londoners and
West
Coasters some workable time. Maybe another time
for the
Aussies?
Meeting Invite link
https://us04web.zoo...GRSeWRneW04QlNUdz09
Zoom link. [RayfordSteele, Mar 28 2020]
Time Zones
https://en.wikipedi..._Time_Zones_Map.png
Proving once again that each country has its name printed across its middle latitude. In asphalt, perhaps? [whatrock, Aug 08 2020]
https://www.researc...uman_semantic_space
Writing shared in the last meeting, for info and peer review. [Mindey, Sep 25 2020]
Six honest serving-men
https://www.destina...em-analysis-method/
Some prior art for Mindey [pertinax, Sep 25 2020]
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Annotation:
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(We're keeping track of all these little digs, jibes and insults, you know) |
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Chosing a time for the Kiwis to join will be , since NZ's still stuck in the 1950's .... |
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Yes, we know. We have to give your OCD counting
nanobots something to do, or they get testy. |
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We don't capitalize human, tribble, or beetle, so
species-specific arbitrary capitalization seems
strange. |
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We'll make an exception for Vulcans, though. |
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So, what time / day would be good? I’m still
working somewhat conventional hours so I’d
suggest a weekend, say Sunday at noon Eastern
Daylight, 11 Central, 4 pm Greenwich? |
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//We don't capitalize human, tribble, or beetle, // |
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... but you do capitalize Americans, Venezuelans, Jews, Greeks and Inuit ?* |
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In German, all proper nouns are capitalized. |
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Americans, Venezuelans and Greeks are national groups; Jews are adherents to a specific belief system; Inuit are a racial group spread across several geographically- defined national areas. |
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You're not very consistent about this, are you? |
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*but not the french. Never the french ... even the Belgians, gods help them, deserve their "B"; but not the french. |
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I'm super positive about this idea, children of the Borg. |
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When is this happening, tomorrow? |
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// a weekend, say Sunday at noon Eastern Daylight, 11 Central, 4 pm
Greenwich |
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If my Audi is any indication, German consistency
isn't all its cracked up to be. |
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Why would a species be a proper noun, unless it
were named after another already-existing proper
noun item, like the Vulcans, or Darwin's finches? |
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Wait, I'd have to get up, showered and dressed? ON A
SUNDAY??? |
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Only from the waist up... |
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4pm tomorrow UK time - be careful of the clock change; I
no longer know if the US and Europe synchronises these
things any more. |
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Meeting ID: 941 146 079
Password: 002373 |
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// Why would a species be a proper noun // |
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Because the grammatical conventions are inconsistent. |
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For example, the species Salmonella enterica gets a capital "S"; as you point out "Darwin's finch" is a distinct species, but "finch" is not. The Boa constrictor has no common name (other than
"common boa") and is also capitalized, but Boa (often used as a short form) is not a species but a genus. |
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Now, we are not a distinct species. We are an aggressive hegemonizing swarm, bent on ruthless conquest and domination. We could be considered as a nation (which would deserve capitalization) or possibly a race, although that second one is debatable. |
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But mostly you should be polite and use "Borg" because if you don't, we will come round to your house and break all your windows. Including the ones in your car. |
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That’s good, I would love to replace these with
different ones, and the car is due, too. I trust the
b.ORG have good hazard insurance, perhaps
backed by Lloyd’s? |
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Well, we have accident ensurance - that is, we can certainly ensure that you have an "accident", and a rather nasty one at that. |
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It isn't backed by Lloyds, but by another organisation with a fine tradition of delivering the customer's requirements at very high velocities - Krupp GmbH. Oh, some say projectile weapons are old-fashioned, but many like the more traditional personalized* approach. |
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Only from the waist up...
— RayfordSteele, Mar 28 2020 |
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Well, that's a damn good thing too, since I'll be joining from
The Church of No Pants. |
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Krupp can bring it. I do happen to work for a
company that can bring a lot more firepower. |
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I have a work meeting scheduled to finish at 4pm but it will likely over-run... I'll drop by on my way home if I am able. |
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So, by borg time, it's scheduled for 1585497600? In or in Python, |
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from datetime import datetime
from pytz import timezone, utc
z = timezone('GMT')
t = z.localize( datetime(2020, 3, 29, 16, 0, 0))
t.astimezone(utc).timestamp() |
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Just rejoin using the same link. :) Zoom has 1 hour limit, but after that
same rooms can be rejoined. |
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// Well, we have accident ensurance // |
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Has the Borg indeed bought out Dial-a-Smite? |
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Shall w do it again sometime? |
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// Has the Borg indeed bought out Dial-a-Smite? // |
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Gr. "Have the Borg ..." (We are many). |
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Either "Have the Borg ..." (pl.) or "Has the Borg Collective ..." (sing.) can be used. |
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And the answer is "yes". We can even add it to your right-click options ... |
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What an awesome experience to have Sunday brunch with
two handsome and VERY intelligent half bakers. Must do it
again soon. Putting faces to baker's names is such fun. Sorry I
didn't get to say goodbye to you, Brian, but we will talk again
soon. |
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Love to all and stay safe. |
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// And the answer is "yes". We can even add it to your right-click options ... |
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Yes! :) A way for the Borg children to socialize, while locked in
quarantines. |
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We should make the next one for an hour. I had it set
for a half-hour and apparently it allows you to go
over by 10 minutes. |
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On the iPad it was one person viewing at a time.
Maybe I'll try it on the laptop; my son was able to
view multiple people simultaneously. |
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My book club had 11 people yesterday. I couldn't see
everyone at once but four or five folks. |
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My work meeting today on zoom had 18 people all visible at once! And overran by hours! And I've no idea what it was about! |
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"No change there, then ..." |
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Sorry I couldn't make it (it was in the middle of the night,
and I have work this morning). |
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I forgot til an hour after it ended sorry! |
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Ah, I forgot this was happening... |
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All are forgiven but missed A three-person piss-up is hard to
sustain. Unless we were in person together at a pub or
something, but that's not going to happen anytime soon. |
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I just thought about that. The culture of the UK is pub
based meaning your neighborhood gathering spot, or is that
something that occurred in a different generation? |
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Where do you live, Pert? We were quite international with
Mindey joining in. |
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Western Australia (GMT+8 - like Outer Mongolia, but with
better beaches) |
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// I forgot til an hour after it ended sorry! //
// Ah, I forgot this was happening... // |
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It's all right. Really, it's all right. Shhhh ... |
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Do you want to be wheeled out onto the verandah so you can sit in the sunshine with [CH] and talk to each other (or rather, talk to yourselves) about how much better things were in The Good Old Days ? |
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Good, no-one seems to need their nappy changing at the moment. |
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// Where do you live, Pert? //
// Western Australia // |
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You do realise that you're on the same physical land mass as [UnaBubba] ? There's no ocean in between ? Reckless, we call that. |
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Also, small point, but our understanding of the technicalities is that you can't "live" in Australia, only "exist" there. If you want to "live" then you have to go somewhere civilised. |
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Why not give Antarctica a try ? |
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Less good beaches, I hear. |
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You're never short of ice for your drink, though. |
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Next time, we can do next weekend? With, maybe a calendar link in
advance? |
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Calendar link, using... ? |
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An agreed, usually numerical or symbolic, system that shows the interrelationship between diurnal cycles and planetary orbital position around the primary. |
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Is there going to be another one? |
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Could we have a recorded one for history? |
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I don't remember if I could record or not as a non-paying
zoomie. |
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Shall we have another of these two weeks tomorrow, Sunday
23rd August? |
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1400 GMT would be good for me, which would be 2200 where I
am, 1500 BST and, I think, 1100 in New York and 0800 in
Vancouver. |
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So 10:00am in the middle of nowhere, I mean,
Springfield, Il. The land of Lincoln. Asking for a
friend, of course. |
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9am then. Thanks for the link. [whatrock] |
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Same bat time, same bat channel? (same/new Zoom code?) |
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OK, regarding the session *next* weekend, Sunday 23rd
August 1400 GMT, I propose to be at |
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Meeting ID: 731 8149 6932
Passcode: 3xRJxd (For some reason, zoom doesn't seem to
allow me a null passcode) |
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If no-one else shows up, I'll put it down to social distancing. |
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if I can get the bl**dy thing to work! |
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^ So... what was your moniker before this one? Don't tell me it was [evilpickles]. |
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Nah. kdf is a fellow Michigander. |
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//things to do with a cat//
[8th of 7] would never get close enough to a cat to be
considered "with". Doing things TO a cat, on the other hand,
(from a distance) is to be expected (although not
encouraged...). |
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//1400 GMT would be good for me, which would be 2200
where I am?// |
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Thanks for doing the Time Calculations for me Pertinax. I'll
book it in. |
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:-(
I was planning to join in (despite the 1am start...), but Zoom doesn't
like my tablet (it's only 7 years old...) & the Zoom app seemed a little
dodgy anyway. So have a good meet, the rest of you! |
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Go out and borrow one from a friend. Or a stranger,
or better yet, build one. You'll be missed, neut. |
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1400 GMT is 2pm, but that's 3pm BST. So, in about three
quarters of an hour from now. |
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I gotta hurry and get my glam squad in here to make
me up like a young pretty sophisticated lady. hahaha |
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Glam Squad=Frisco the Cat |
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I'm here with my dog, and someone's already joined us in the
form of a pigeon. |
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{Taps mic} Is this thing on?
Zoom says it's not :(
[po] sent sos sms |
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Waiting at the door to be let in. |
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Post the link for me, someone |
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G'day from Perth - online and waiting to be let into the big
kid's room. |
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Pass code. It's asking me for a pass code. |
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I'm knocking on the door but no one is answering. |
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Well heck, this isn't working out I guess. I've got
chores to do and a bike to ride. So long, fellow
bakers. |
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Wow, very cool. We are an amazing tribe. |
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Sorry about the waiting room experience - I'm glad you all
came! |
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Next time, I'll make sure there are some old magazines to
read, or something. |
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From our conversation, I did finally think of
something I made that I'm somewhat proud of, my
lego pendulum clock. It's a bit dodgy in the
escapement mechanism at the moment and I
haven't touched it in years, but it does basically
work. |
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thanks [pert] you're a great host. |
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I would like to participate in the next one if there's room. |
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Never done that before... hmmm
<calls to wife in other room> |
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"Honey... Do you know how does this zoom thingy works?" |
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//Do you know how does this zoom thingy works//
No-one knows how it works... the internet has become deep
magic. |
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//No-one knows how it works... the internet has become deep magic.// |
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Yeah... kinda sucks. Everyone's a wannabe magi now. I like real magic better. |
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... no manual required, you either is or you ain't |
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Thanks everybody who attended. Thanks to also to Pertinax
- nice to finally meet you although we only live about 35kms
apart. |
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Oops - forgot this was happening yesterday! |
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well I downloaded zoom to my iPad for a possible
meeting at another day. Did anyone find out a
phone or a PC is better or it all works the same? I
tried reading most of This and it seems there were
some problems but it would be great to join a
virtual meeting. Thank you |
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Yes, we need more ladies. Xandra, I would be so happy to
have you present. I feel rather like an alien with mostly males
and some quite young. I've forgotten all that and am just
playing around in the moment. We are Facebook buddies so I
will remember to advertise there when next we meet. |
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It was awesome to put faces to names and to get a sense of
what's REALLY going on in the World. Firsthand. |
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the internet has become deep magic.
— neutrinos_shadow, Aug 24 2020 |
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Does that make those of us in the US part of The Deep State??? |
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OK, I was thinking maybe try dabbling more in the Pacific Basin
for the next one. |
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0300 GMT on Sunday 20th September is Saturday evening in
North America. I can offer you an imaginary backyard barbecue
lunch, since it will be 1100 where I am, and we might (if we're
good) score a New Zealander or two (because it will be, I think,
3pm there). |
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thanks [blissy] i’m sure it would be fun. I have
attended 2 real life halfcons, But seems so long
ago now! it’s amazing that everyone is a real
person! Ha ha Yes let me know. Thanks again |
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thanks [blissy] i’m sure it would be fun. I have
attended 2 real life halfcons, But seems so long
ago now! it’s amazing that everyone is a real
person! Ha ha Yes let me know. Thanks again |
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another thought… If this zoom doesn’t work so
great messenger chats work fine but only can see
eight people at once and then when someone
leaves another comes in |
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Our iPad works better than our laptop, but that's
because the laptop is very old with a slow camera
refresh rate. Generally you have more options with a
good laptop. The son's school chromebook did a
good job when we had them available. |
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Top of the morning (1400 GMT). I checked into Zoom to see
if anyone was as habitual as I. Now I see a suggested
meeting for 0300 GMT on Sunday 20th Sept. Sat eve cuts
into my bingo night, but will stand by and monitor the posts
here. |
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// 0300 GMT on Sunday 20th September is Saturday evening in North
America. |
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2020-09-20T03:00Z, noted. Likely will be able to see a starry night here. |
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Meeting ID: 720 2665 2481
Passcode: 3B9Pcn |
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0300 GMT on Sunday 20th September |
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I switched off the "waiting room" feature, so everyone can
just come straight in. |
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It was fun last time. Come and join fellow bakers. Bring your
best joke or story. It will be great. |
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Or we can just announce what we have recently done, or
received. Or even maybe how we are all doing with this insane
planet right now. Kiddos welcome and even encouraged. |
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// I switched off the "waiting room" |
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I see, so the Borg cube is open. |
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Does anyone have enough electrical engineering knowledge
to explain why it's difficult to maintain the voltage of a
power grid when demand is low? |
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Try spinning generator at lower rpm :) For normal voltage, the generator
revolution speed has to be close to 50Hz. |
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Hope it was a good meet-up. I intended to join but 'real life'
got in the way. Anyway, when one door closes another door
opens - other than that, it's a pretty good car. |
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It was good. It was [Mindey], [neutrinos_shadow] and
[jutta], and the Morning Star as seen from Vilnius (you had
to be there). |
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My mic died near the end, when I was trying to present
some stuff about Australian power grids, but I'll let the
others decide whether that was a bad thing or a good thing. |
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Sorry I have to check out at 0200 GMT these days. |
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// Six honest serving-men // |
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[pertinax], definitely fun, but this does not mention or elaborate on the
relationship of the men with the functional equation model. |
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// [neutrinos_shadow] and [jutta], and the Morning Star as seen from
Vilnius (you had to be there). |
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Remains a very good memory indeed! |
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Some more thoughts on your paper, [Mindey]: |
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Your mapping of "why" corresponds only to the "Aristotelian
final cause" sense of "why", and not to the Humean "why".
Perhaps this is a language issue, reflecting different
semantic patterns in Lithuanian? |
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More seriously, your mapping of "who", placing it with
"how" and apart from "what", "where" and "when", reflects
a "who" considered as an agent. Once a "who" is rendered
into a database, however, it is likely to be modelled and
treated very like a "what", "where" or "when"; the "who"
with agency is the person *using* the database and
sublating its contents. |
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This will be a problem for the intended application of your
mappings to mark up database objects. |
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(I know basically nothing about this philosophical stuff...
or language either...)
I feel that [Mindey]s idea should be "beyond" (or "above"
or "before" or something...) language; working at a very
conceptual level. BUT, does the language a person speaks
affect the way they think about the world? (See the
movie "Arrival" for a sci-fi extreme version of language
affecting thought processes.) Europeans, more
accustomed to interacting with speakers of various
languages, would have a better feel for this than me.
So, the system itself is independent of language, but how
a particular person interacts with it IS dependent on their
language. |
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// Your mapping of "why" corresponds only to the "Aristotelian final
cause" sense of "why", and not to the Humean "why" |
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[pertinax], both. When we ask "Why?" in Lithuanian, it is about both the
purpose
and the cause. I thought this is also the spectrum of senses that the
English "Why?" encompasses: predicting future and "post-dicting" the
past, "pursuit" and.... "pre-suit?" :) as the intentionality and causal
propensity are closely related. |
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// Once a "who" is rendered into a database, however, it is likely to be
modelled and treated very like a "what", "where" or "when"; the "who"
with agency is the person *using* the database and sublating its
contents. |
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Yes indeed. Due to recursive and self-referential nature of our minds (world's model in our minds, that
includes the model of our own minds as part of the world),
anything can be nounized (e.g., actor can be treated as thing), and referred to as "what". In this
model, the
closest approximations of non-question concepts, that categorize
answers to the six-men questions, is: |
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Y:
WHY axis: "Causes" (intents and reasons) |
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X:
HOW axis: "Methods"
WHO axis: "Subjects" (effect originators) |
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F:
WHAT axis: "Objects" (effect receivers)
WHEN axis: "Times"
WHERE axis: "Locations" |
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Where, "Subjects" and "Objects" are of grammatical senses. |
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The pragmatic implications are that we would want to reserve the
"WHO" label to those entities that
generate authorized operations in data systems. For example, if
financial transactions or laser cutting
machine operations are generated by an
OAuth2 identity, that identity would naturally be labeled as "WHO". |
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// I feel that [Mindey]s idea should be "beyond" (or "above" or "before"
or something...) language; working at a very conceptual
level. [...] So, the system itself is independent of language, but how a
particular person interacts with it IS dependent on their
language. |
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[neutrinos_shadow]: Well, it's a less abstract than an idea of "polycontext metasymbol" (google it),
which
I consider to be a concept that is beyond "patterns" (so, perhaps beyond language). This
equation relation with general categories or human questions is quite
concrete, and while language-independent, may have different specific
words
that people have in their cultures for these categories. For example, in
Lithuanian, there's no separation between "Who?" and
"What?" (=what doer?) questions, but there is a separation between
"What?" (=what subject?) and "What?" (=what object?"). :) In Chinese, it's yet again different, in that
many questions are simply
"What + Concept" (e.g., "What + Time" = "When?"). |
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