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The project starts by interviewing a very large sample of humans placed at all points along the autistic spectrum (as defined in the DSM), from those who are just good engineers, through mathematicians and physicists, to Aspergers to full blown Autism.
Having developed a consensus view, create a theme
park that depicts the world as those with Aspergers/Autism view it.
Make "normal" people spend the day there, by force if necessary.
Should this education process fail, repeated random violent beatings would be administered to the ones that "just don't get it".
In her language
https://www.youtube...watch?v=JnylM1hI2jc
scroll to 3:10 to skip to the translation. [2 fries shy of a happy meal, Apr 17 2016]
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So basically like living inside an episode of Spongebob... |
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I passed a marquis a couple of days ago that advertised some sort of "autism experience"; a movie I think. |
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At the 4th paragraph I knew it was you, [8th]. |
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Do people with full autism do interviews? |
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Not as such. That would be one of the more challenging aspects of the project. |
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did you know that more than 200 million people started
using grid electricity for the first time between 2011 to
2012? (Economist)
The nifty awesome possibility of utilizing a mind
simulator to feel another persons perspective is vaguely
similar. |
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"That would be one of the more challenging aspects of
the project." [8th of 7]
I am amazed, I thought you were going to use photonic
data mapping of the brain at a big data approach. really
actually. photonic tomographic measures of brain area
glucose utilization are published. basically the autistic
person would just have to wander around 2ndlife world as
well as their desktop then exist. The software maps their
CNS activity then translation software shows immersive or
video clips of similar emotionalize with also occurring
cognitive activation. |
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Perhaps a person kindly enquiring
about meal participation is something like
"weirdpocalypse" from
gravity falls. looks and feels OR, rather more mildly,
perhaps a person kindly
enquiring about lunch looks or feels more like nonoptimal
NPR fundraiser depending on the person. |
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// I am amazed, I thought you were going to use photonic data mapping of the brain at a big data approach. really actually. photonic tomographic measures of brain area glucose utilization are published. // |
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"We" aren't going to do anything. There's no money to be made, no opportunity for dangerously inadvisable use of explosives or projectile weapons, and nothing awful happens to cats. |
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If you want to do it, go ahead. We just want 7% of the gate money as a royalty. |
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//I passed a marquis a couple of days ago// I hope
he said "good morning" to you. I find many of them
can be so aloof. |
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As to the idea, I'm not sure it's possible. First of all, how
would you know how the world looks to someone with autism?
It's like trying to see red the same way someone else sees red
- Carmichael's conundrum. |
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My very, very limited knowledge of autism suggests that it
involves a direct perception of the world, rather than
perception of an internal model of the world (which is what
you and I do). I don't believe you can design a theme park
that would remotely, slightly, marginally recreate that
experience. |
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so you mean it's the hardwiring rather than the software? |
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I don't know. I think the theory is that it's the wiring.
But nobody really knows a lot about autism. |
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Actually, people with autism know a lot, but they're not telling. |
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That's part of the problem, or indeed most of it. |
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One seriously autistic woman has tried to interpret in a quite moving video. [link] |
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I don't think that the perception can be simulated. It would be like trying to teach dolphins how to walk and use hands. |
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//Nobody can pay attention to absolutely everything coming in with
equal detail.// |
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I think the situation is a little different. In a non-autistic person, all the
information comes in and, along with memory and prior knowledge, is
used to build and update a plausible internal model; the person then
"sees" this internal model and pays attention to one part of it or another
as necessary. |
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So it's a bit like having ten pages of text describing an elephant, and an
internal model that says "it's an elephant". The person sees an elephant,
and can then examine bits of it if they so wish. |
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In autism (according to one view), the model never gets constructed and
the person has instead to look at the ten pages of text; they can attend
to the sentence that says "long grey bendy thing", or they can attend to
the sentence that says "two pointy white things", but they have to pick
out those sentences from all the equally-weighted incoming information. |
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The advantage that autism gives is probably an ability to perceive the
world rather than an internal (and possibly wrong) model of it. Autism
probably also builds better reasoning and deduction skills, because those
skills are constantly exercised to interpret the world. |
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The disadvantages are presumably the huge computational burden
(which must be exhausting) and an inability to make the reasonable
predictions and generalizations that come from having an internal
modelling system. |
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Autism-like cognitive function can be very approximately replicated using transcranial magnetic stimulation or drugs. Add those to your theme park and you're on a winner. |
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// you go and work in sales and marketing. // |
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Really ? We always thought that it was because the voices in their heads have told them to "Go Forth and do Evil Things to please Lord Satan". |
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Huh... I thought that was politics. |
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//The advantage that autism gives is probably an ability to perceive the world rather than an internal (and possibly wrong) model of it// |
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you know, I've been waiting with baited breathe for you to claim (a minor degree of) autism since you posted that :) |
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That would be "bated breath". And I believe I am
dull red on the spectrum. |
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ok, I'm about half way down the bottle of scotch at the moment, I would like to attribute any appalling spelling errors to that.. but I'd probably be lying :) |
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Huxley's account of lysergic acid diethylamide in "The Doors of Perception" springs to mind here. Of course, Huxley only documented a "good trip" and, for greater authenticity, you'd want to ensure that "bad trip" aspects of the experience were also represented. Huxley writes of a notional "reducing valve" which is disabled by the drug, and is comparable to [MB]'s account of the reduction of ten pages of text to "elephant". |
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So, to make this work (which I don't necessarily recommend), you could administer acid, and combine it somehow with the apprehension of those random beatings. Obviously, people could only visit this park alone, and preferably after being kidnapped. |
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Also, it's important that you get the theme park's maps right. You know how, in a typical theme park, or similar visitor-attracting site, there are big, simplified maps, with a highly-visible arrow indicating "you are here". Well, in this park, those maps would make no concession whatever to simplification, but would resemble "Where's Wally?" pictures, in which the "you are here" arrow was carefully blended into the background. Furthermore, the image would refresh every few seconds, each new image being centred on a different geographical point and being differently lit and coloured. Some features of the image (never the "you are here" arrow itself) would be animated to wiggle annoyingly. This is to illustrate what clinicians call "weak central coherence". |
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You're hired, [pert]. Be at the design meeting in two days time. In the interim, we'll send you the existing plans to go over. |
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Ooh, I've just found a very telling definition of autism. |
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It was published in a "Dictionary of Psychology" in 1951 (back when psychology was still heavily influenced by psychoanalysis). |
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Autism: see Autistic Thinking |
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Autistic Thinking: mental activity which is controlled by the wishes of the individual, as contrasted with *reality thinking*, controlled by the conditions imposed by the real nature of objects and events; more or less equivalent to *wishful thinking* or *phantasy* (q.v.) |
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This definition tells you nothing whatsoever about the experience of being autistic, but it tells you a great deal about (a) the nature of the psychoanalytic movement and (b) the historical process by which people of the spectrum came to be marginalised. |
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Essentially, it defined autism as "being wrong". Therefore, it provided a handy, pseudo-clinical, scientific-sounding label with which to dismiss anyone who disagreed with the analyst. |
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It should be understood in the context of writing, about autistic people, by influential non-clinical authors in the psychoanalytic movement. Somerset Maugham and D. H. Lawrence spring to mind. Somerset Maugham wanted us dead, whereas D. H. Lawrence wanted us enslaved for the benefit of the cool people. If you think I'm exaggerating, re-read their work. I still remember the uncritical enthusiasm with which Lawrence's oeuvre was taught in my high school. </rant> |
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// it defined autism as "being wrong". // |
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Yes, but that's also just a wife's definition of her husband's (and by inference, all other men's) point of view... |
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It occurs to me that this has been partially implemented by
COVID-19. |
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Now, *everyone* is
unsure about how personal space is supposed to work,
forced to communicate without the full range of non-verbal cues,
unable to acquire sexual partners without great difficulty,
forced to cope emotionally without frequent validation by peers
and
generally apprehensive that there is something threatening
going on which they don't fully understand. |
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Schadenfreude isn't nice, but sometimes, when I hear people
complain about how much they hate lockdown, I can't help
thinking "welcome to our world". |
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Good observation, pertinax. I'm reminded of walking
through a local mall today on an errand. Several people
acknowledged me with a raised hand and/or "hello". As
for me, I seemed to recognized every pair of eyes peeping
over those masks. Also, people seemed attentive to the
fact I was there -- their mood seemed inclusive. |
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Mind you, a bunch of strangers. I think you're right; that
has to be akin to what a hypervigilant person experiences
on a good day. |
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Have to add, if that was a good day I'd not want to have a
bad one. Beatings or no! |
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// Schadenfreude isn't nice, // |
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... except for the "freude" part, which is the Gernan for "joy" ... as in "Kraft durch Freude". |
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And presumably "Freude durch Schaden" ... |
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It would be most interesting to see the results of an anonymous* survey/test to see just how many Bakers are "on the axis". |
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Obviously it wouldn't include [xen], because these tests only give useful results for humans, not the french. |
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*To one another. Obviously, we would need to know everyone's names, dates of birth and all other pertinent** data for purely statistical reasons and because the Chinese pay top dollar for that stuff. |
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