h a l f b a k e r y"My only concern is that it wouldn't work, which I see as a problem."
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nernst bees
electricity from ion concentration difference creates pH fluid that turns wood to sugar to feed bees as well as make honey | |
the nernst equation tells us a novel thing: even with two solutions of the same ion an order of magnitude concentration difference generates .059 volts; thus two solutions of calcium chloride at different concentrations placed near each other could make a .059 volt battery; that looks puny but consider
a thing like 40 of these as a series; that generates more than two volts; sufficient to run many electronics
making a 40 little clusters of two solutions with a gradient fits on an elisa plate that has plated circuit board pathways to connect things; carbon electrodes with ion permeable material like starch or emulsion; just a little miniaturization makes even tinier 2 or 3 volt nernst batteries; current goes with the amount of fluid (moles of ion solute)
now think of the fluid reservoirs of the nernst battery connected to two differing shapes of trays; as the trays evaporate water differently there is always a concentration difference between the two kinds of reservoirs; the nernst battery is actually a waste energy battery capable of making electricity from such things as the overnight cool n warm cycle; with the right shape of trays 2 or 3 degree temperature cycles create the concentration difference that produces voltage
there are some novel uses for a battery that runs on calcium chloride, developing world people could dig a trench, then unroll a dimpled mat with gel areas, then put screened dirt on top of the trench; toss Calcium chloride or plant beneficial ion crystal on the dirt, then water; if you do this right you create a very large battery as the ions diffuse plus concentration cycle with evaporation; much cheaper than photovoltaics plus the current (ion fluid volume) is arbitrary; the amount of energy from cool warm cycles is very large
anyway now that you know about nernst batteries here is my favorite application create natural shapes that collect rainwater n allow evaporation at different rates; create a nernst battery; then use the electricity to create hydrogen ion rich acidic solution that can turn wood fibers to simpler carbohydrates like sugars; the sugar accumulates n bees visit the natural battery as a source of food; basically people could make a shape that feeds bees n creates honey
the nernst equation .059 volts from same ion at differing concentrations
http://www.chem1.co...ext/elchem/ec4.html
[beanangel, Mar 05 2008]
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Treon, I must insist that you at least spell
my maternal grandfather's name with an
initial capital, much as you do your own. |
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Playing "Name That 'Baker" is getting too easy. |
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//Treon for president.// Yep, I knew there
was one job he could do. |
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my grandad knew Lloyd George - how pathetic is that? |
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There's a coincidence! Lloyd George knew
my grandad! |
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I wont even read the idea until you can explain to me what is a "pH fluid". Best I can tell this is equivalent to saying something stupid like "fathom oil" or "micrometer juice" |
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[jhom] pH fluid can be distilled from
micrometer juice, leaving the heavy
fathom oil behind. |
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can I run my car on that? |
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Dalton Serum on the other hand might work quite well in your car. |
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[jhomrighaus] wood turns to starch then sugar at acid pH; electricity can be used to create fluids of any pH |
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how did scientists miss this one? Only Treon can spots things that mother nature missed in her exhaustive search for mechanisms. He even provides links! By good god the applications are infinate! If I could include these batteries (ion pumps) in every cell in my body think of the things I could do! |
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Unlimitless possibilities. |
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Why not construct a huge Nernst cell by capturing the outflow of a river and the sea? Focus your attention on this concept then post what you come up with. focus! FOCUS! |
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I like the river / sea Nernst.
I like the ditch Nernst. You could run a radio off of it. |
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I thought the bees were a set up for an elaborate pun but if it there I do not see it. Sort of like the unexpected ending of the movie Repo Man, except sort of bucolic and pleasant. |
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//[jhomrighaus] wood turns to starch then sugar at acid pH; electricity can be used to create fluids of any pH
Treon, Mar 05 2008// |
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Really? I would love to see the chemistry on this especially since no-one else on the planet that I know of has been able to conduct such a reaction simply by exposing wood to an acidic fluid. Last time I checked the break down of wood fiber to simple sugars required enzymes. |
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I am also intrigued by the electricity can create fluids of any pH part as once again I am pretty darn sure no-one on planet earth has determined a way to use electricity to create fluids of any pH. |
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pH is an arbitrary scale that measures the Hydrogen Ion concetration of a solution. It really has no direct analogous conversion factor.(ie ph 2 =???) Electricity is related to the flow of electrons and pH differentials of certain types of materials is the basis for most wet cell type batteries. |
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You are once again combining a number of related but non-equivalent topics as if they were in fact shared some direct relationship, which alas they are not. |
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The Nernst equation basically says that the
voltage is proportional to the log of the
ratio of the concentrations. So, what
happens if one side contains distilled
water? Infinite voltage? |
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making an actual nernst battery would make a nice youtube video |
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[jhomrighaus] if you place a pH visualizer like litmus with a transparent electrolytic chamber the pH at the electrodes changes the litmus color |
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here's a potential error: perhaps all of the positively charged species that change the litmus color are non water trace mineral ions; I read that hydrogen gas will be seen to bubble up at the cathode; I thought it was redissolved hydrogen gas -> ions accumulating at an electrically favorable place; that thought was based on the fact that chlorine n fluorine are produced electrolytically: the main way to create elemental forms of things with high electronegativity is to zap them with sufficient electrical potential |
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now here's the iffy part: my thought is that if you collect all the ph reduced water then do electrolysis again the hydrogen ions will accumulate creating more acid water |
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I'm up for guidance on this though; the electrolytic production of fluorine (non aqueous solution) as well as chlorine gas(aqueous) suggests that with sufficient e- you can have as much hydrogen ion as you like |
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regarding the wood to starch to sugar thing: sulfuric acid will turn paper to carbohydrate goo, more acid will break that down to sugars; I've read it plus noticed the paper to goo effect at school chem lab |
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Are you doing well in your classes? |
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in electrolysis you are breaking apart the water molecules and forming gaseous Hydrogen and Gaseous Oxygen, you do not form Hydrogen Ions which are not free hydrogen but actually represent potential areas of reaction when in solution. Your understanding of the chemistry here is deeply flawed from what I can tell at this point. |
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I'm aware of the gas aspect; I'm just wondering if perhaps hydrogen gas near the electrode reionizes some of the hydrogen to aqueous ions; I've seen photos of different electrochemical aqueous reactions that produce Chlorine gas as well as chlorine ions as part of the solution; if that happens to chlorine could that happen to hydrogen |
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basically just vent the anode but heep the hydrogen at the cathode; as gas n dissolved gas have their equilibrium while oxygen leaves the system hydrogen ions build up |
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Bun for the battery idea, but you lost me with the bees -- I believe it takes more than an acidic solution to turn wood into sugar.... |
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