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For drugs, FairTrade status would probably be more important than being organic. |
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Peyote, Jimson Weed, Datura, Belladonna, Saffron,
certain Arctic lichens... most of these are grown
without chemical adulteration and are all
hallucinogenic. |
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First, legalize all drugs and bring them under public supervision. Second ... |
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[+] for the concept of Fair Trade Bolivian nose candy |
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I can picture the Starbucks lines now. |
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"I wanna new drug". I think Huey Lewis beat cha to
it, but only in an indirect sort of way. |
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This is probably already available for cannabis, given the drug's popularity with the organic-foods types of people. That's assuming you know your supplier and grower. Cannabis is usually minimally processed, and can be grown (illegally) in the USA. |
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Heroin and cocaine may well be grown organically already, simply because their third-world growers have no access to pesticides and herbicides and fertilizers (the case for many organic fruits imported to the USA). |
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Heroin and cocaine are subjected to fierce chemical processing that would make a sad mockery of organic growth or any claim of product tracking. As is covered in the second paragraph of the idea. I just wanted to break cannabis out of there. |
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// certain Arctic lichens // |
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That's the first I've heard of that. |
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Reindeer eat the lichens. Then the local folk collect
the reindeer urine and drink it, to get shitfaced...
err, pissed. |
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I wonder if it's possible to produce cocaine in a way
that would qualify for this idea. |
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If you take away the petroleum and the acid from the
process then it's probably not cocaine any longer. |
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Coca tea, certainly. But as [bb] points out, the extraction process
to produce the pure alkaloid can hardly be rated as 'green'. |
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On the subject of organic, could someone explain the "Organic Maple Syrup" for sale at a higher price? How is ordinary maple syrup not organic? |
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Maybe they sometimes spray stuff on the trees to
get rid of red ants. Red ants in your maple syrup
could be bad. |
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//Coca tea// or indeed, coca cola. |
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Oftentimes it's made of corn syrup. |
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//if you take away the petroleum// Hang on a
second. What could be more organic than
petroleum?? |
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Incidentally, the UK was recently named as the
"legal high capital of the world", thanks to the
endeavours of our top-notch English boffins and
botanists. |
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[Bun], have an 8th... [zzzzz] |
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Ive been musing on the idea of how one can procure
"conflict free" marijuana. As the biggest problem i
find with marijuana is not that it is an illegal, but
that it helps fund organized crime, which is a huge
problem in my area. Obviously one cant go up to a
drug
dealer and ask them outright.. |
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// Peyote, Jimson Weed, Datura, Belladonna, Saffron, certain Arctic lichens... most of these are grown without chemical adulteration and are all hallucinogenic. // |
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Peyote yes. Jimson weed is Datura, which has similar alkaloids to Atropa belladonna. Those two are only hallucinogenic in overdose and i've never given that big a dose. Schedule IIIs, those two. Not sure which lichens you have in mind. However, Datura is one of my favourite herbs for asthma and i've never had anyone hallucinate on it. |
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I wouldn't see heroin as a phytochemical as it has an acetyl group added to it. |
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The herbs which are hallucinogenic in overdose, which simply means that they're poisonous and shouldn't be taken in that high a dose, are available farmed conventionally, organically and biodynamically. Cannabis and tobacco are often organically grown. |
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I think you may be thinking of Amanita muscaria, which would indeed usually be organic in the Arctic. |
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// heroin as a phytochemical // |
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Fair enough. What about morphine, then ? Or unrefined opium paste ? |
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Yes, those are, but there are safer options than that. Plenty of different biological opiates and opioids, often effective for pain relief and the like, but why go further unless you're interested in painless euthanasia? |
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Another comment on the reindeer thing. They eat a lichen referred to as Cetraria islandica, which is largely a source of polysaccharides and is not hallucinogenic at all. It's sort of like a land seaweed in terms of nutrition, though without so much mineral content. |
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//i find with marijuana is not that it is an illegal, but that it helps fund organized crime// |
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It's not marijuana that funds criminals. It's the laws against it (and other drugs) that send forty billion a year their way. |
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The only way to be sure that it's organic is not to buy stuff (possibly poisoned by the US government) on the street, but to grow it yourself. Of course, home-grown is illegal, as the SC decided in 2005 that growing it yourself cuts into the market for pot, and therefore gives the feds the power to regulate it by way of the interstate commerce clause. (A ruling that, incidentally, gives the feds the power to regulate anything you do in your home.) |
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I would see Cannabis taken at a dose where it's likely to alter consciousness appreciably to an observer or subjectively in a blind test to be an overdose. I also think it happens (not a conspiracy) to serve certain political factions very well that other political factions demotivate themselves and become psychotic in the sense of having poor memory and cognitive skills so that they can't organise themselves effectively, and doubly so because its use can be use to convict people of crimes at the convenience of the authorities. Recreational Cannabis use is the opposite of activism. |
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//given the drug's popularity with the organic-foods types of people//
What evidence do you base that, rather sweeping, generalisation on, baconbrain? |
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As an organic foods-type person myself, i find myself
in agreement with [baconbrain]'s assumption. |
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I'm not sure many people are going to be tripping on
saffron, given that it's roughly the same price as gold
at the moment. |
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I think the lichen may be related to Parmotrema
menyamyaense (Rock Bloom), 19th]. Not sure. |
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// //given the drug's popularity with the organic-foods types of people// |
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What evidence do you base that, rather sweeping, generalisation on, baconbrain? // |
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The aging hippies that I spend a weekend in the woods with every year. |
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But, yes, too generalized nowadays. The average Whole Foods customer probably doesn't stop the SUV on the way home for a big bag of illegal herb. When the organic foods movement started out, though, it was pretty strongly correlated...at least where I was then. |
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"Organic marijuana" gets 5.5 million Google hits, "Organic cannabis" gets 3.3 million. ("Hits". Hee, hee, hee.) One: "California's Mendocino County petitioned the state to allow regulation and certification of organic marijuana farms. County officials cited the requests of medical marijuana users who fear the effects of pesticides on their already compromised immune systems. " |
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Ah yes, the SUV. Describes a number of people i know to a T as it happens. |
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[19thly], I don't mean to be a jerk about it, but it is
literally impossible to overdose on cannabis. The handful
of psychoactive compounds collectively known as
cannabinoids are partial-agonists; they only
partially block the CB and GABA receptors of the nervous
system, meaning some synapse activity can still take place.
Once there are no more receptors to be filled, the
compounds' effect simply hits a plateau. |
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But even if you can't OD on pot, you can DEFINITELY smoke
too much, which I think is the point you were trying to
make. |
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In sufficiently high concentration, those
compounds may have biological activity other
than the ones you mention -- in general, ligands
lose some of their receptor specificity at high
enough concentrations. At even higher
concentrations, they may have entirely unrelated
actions: for example, acetaminophen produces
analgesia through its actions on neurotransmitters
in the nervous system (so it it is believed), but
overdose causes death through toxicity in the
liver. |
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So, forgive the pedantry, but probably best to
substitute "in practice"
for "literally." (A cursory Medline search supports
your assertion: death from overdose is described
as "exceptionally rare," and most fatalities are
related to motor vehicle or airplane accidents.) |
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I'm willing to bet that a kilogram of refined THC will
result in a catastrophic outcome for anyone who
ingests it. |
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"Organic" implies a lack of use of synthetic compounds during the growth of the organism. Notably, organic beef that is still alive is quite difficult to eat, as it has a tendency to jump off the barbeque and run away. So, yes. |
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The chronic use of Cannabis results in behaviour and cognition which is maladaptive for the user. That's what i would call an overdose. Incidentally, it needn't be delivered by smoking and it's better not to. Smoking it at all is a fairly bad idea compared to tobacco in the same quantities. |
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[mouse]: I agree, 'in practice' would be a better term. |
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[infidel]: by 'refined THC,' I can only assume you mean hash, but ingesting a kilo of just about anything except air via inhalation will have adverse effects, namely, death. |
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[19th] I assumed we were talking about one-time consumption. Chronic usage, i.e. regular consumption over a long period of time, may or may not cause serious problems. Again, see my postulation concerning 'just about anything' in paragraph above. |
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The real problem with qualifying any statement regarding the short- or long-term effects of cannabis usage is that there are a lot of people out there waving figures around and *all* of them have an agenda. I have yet to see any conclusive body of work on the subject that was made with a completely objective approach (and for reasons unspecified, this is something I've studied extensively). Even Wikipedia is subtly biased (against), probably for legal reasons. |
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For those inclined to do so (for any reason), the safest way to ingest cannabis as an inhalant is with a vaporizer. |
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Also, [19th], I would argue TO THE DEATH your assertion that smoking cannabis is more detrimental to health than smoking equivalent quantities of tobacco, but I won't do it here, because it would be a serious waste of our and everybody else's time. |
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Smoking anything is bad for your health. I'll leave it at that. |
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The issue of Cannabis is generally quite polarised. It has an aura to it because of its illegality which distorts opinion around it. It's a herb like other herbs, with individual actions and health risks. So are tobacco and coltsfoot. |
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It makes little sense to smoke it rather than ingest it in other ways. If you want it to act on or be absorbed via your lungs it could be nebulised. If you want it to have a different "curve", you can take it per os. However, it's only special in the sense that every herb is special. It's not magic, any more than Aloe vera or Eleutherococcus senticosus is. A lot of completely unsung herbs are excellent but lack glamour, for instance Viburnum opulus is marvellous stuff for many reasons, but mention it to a non-herbalist and they're either likely to think of it as an ornamental tree or not to have heard of it. |
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Nebulizer (more or less) = Vaporizer. Agreed, eating it in your brownies is much easier on the body, but produces less predictable results and negates some of the synergystic effects of the herb; the process of cooking cannabis butter or cannabis oil, for instance, denatures and destroys terpenoids. (Using "Green Butter" is the only way to make effective brownies. People who say you can just grind up some bud and toss it in the batter are full of shit; all you get are ineffective brownies that taste vaguely like artichokes.) Unfortunately, this limits the medicinal applications to the treatment of only a handful of conditions, far fewer than can be treated* through inhalation. |
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*okay, for all the doubters, I'll say 'theoretically treated.' |
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Fair enough, but why bother when there are thousands of other species out there which can address the issues and are completely legal or at worst Schedule IIIs? |
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Ah, now we've cut to crux of the matter, and this time, my nineteenth friend, I join you on the same side of the line. I foresee only two problems: A) our collaborative discussion could last until doomsday, and at some point I would have to stop to take my medicine, and B) who would fund us? |
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PS: my wife would hug you for your comment about 'unsung herbs.' And take my word for it, you would enjoy said hug, regardless of your gender/orientation. |
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Thanks. Trust me, i'm a herbalist. |
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I kinda figured. Good on yer! |
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// Trust me, i'm a herbalist.// skipped grammar for botany did we ?
"an" |
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Hey, I don't make the rules. |
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We pronounce the "h" here. There is an "an" rule
which pedants occasionally follow before "h", but it's
old-fashioned. However, being a fully paid-up
pedant, i stand corrected. |
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I sense a tangent coming up... |
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>takes two quick steps to the left< |
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The correct written form is" an herbalist", but may be
pronounced as 'an erbalist' or 'a herbalist', both of which are
correct. |
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NB The English do this sort of thing purely to have fun with
foreigners. |
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Over time, it might become "a nerbalist" |
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That happens. 'Nuncle', from 'an uncle' or 'mine uncle', is found in Shakespeare, and 'a nadre' became 'an adder' (the opposite direction). |
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Yes: orange, apron, adder.
However, it seems to have stopped happening recently. "Orange" changed before English borrowed it, so it's a Romance indefinite article which took the N. "Apron" is oddly unconnected to the "nape of the neck" and i expect it was stolen by the Freemasons as part of their plan to corner the global market in nasal consonants. "Adder" is late mediaeval. |
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// Over time, it might become "a nerbalist" // |
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And that time is now! I hereby declare myself a nerbalist. All that EU stuff is irrelevant to me because i prescribe and dispense nerbs, which are oddly similar to herbs but differ in that they are not covered by the EU Directive or the NIMH, EHTPA and so on. |
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Sell nerbal teas, nerbal remedies, nerbaceous
borders, nerbaria... anything you can hame. |
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I'm right on it, [infidel]. |
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Also wondering about nurbalism. I know NURBS are
something to do with computer graphics but i'm not
sure what. |
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Sounds like quite a plausible mechanism of linguistic
evolution. Probably even has a name. "Back-
formation" maybe. |
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Verily. And i say eke unto you, that medical nurbalism the imitation of the human form with the trams of thought mote be. For that there is something of the unwieldy pertaining unto the reckoning of our innards, is there not? We are no Platonic solids. Peraventure cou'd there be a tapestry thrown o'er the members like unto a net of tilesome lozenges? Or might i be bedizened or beset with an heap of roundels knit together with rods of adamant? What a piece of work were a man, that we might know his geometrical essence thereby? |
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Meanwhile, out here in the 'burbs. |
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Our guess is either Ergot or Magic Mushrooms, but most likely
[19thly] is channeling Stephen Fry. |
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Sorry, i got a bit carried away. I didn't want to write
"indeed" yet again, so i wrote "verily" and just lost
control. |
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What i mean is, medical nurbalism might be the
discipline which describes the anatomy of the human
body using B-splines. |
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*whew,* glad I sidestepped that one... |
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It does seem, though, that medical nurbalism might have a function other than having a silly name. |
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That sounds quite plausible, if, instead of the
whole human body, NURBs are applied to
particular parts. For example, creating a
mathematical description of the shape of a brain,
and its many oddly shaped parts, all fitting
together properly, is a requirement for assembling
large databases, from multiple individuals -- which
is quite a big deal in neuroscience research these
days. Or in orthopedics, for the design of
prosthetic implants. Computer-graphic volume-
modeling
techniques are also used, these days, to custom-
design reconstructive surgery procedures for
trauma victims. |
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Pretty soon, something better than NURBs would
come along, but the people who did that work
would still be called NURBalists, to the delight of
logophiles, and the bafflement (or indifference) of
everybody else. |
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Therefore it should be made to happen. The word "quiz" was allegedly introduced to the language by two people and a graffiti campaign, so i've heard. Something similar should be done herewith. |
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In fact, if i can make it coherent enough beyond simple word coinage, i may even post it as an idea. |
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// if i can make it coherent enough // |
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There's a first time for everything. |
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