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When Hamas fires their puny rockets at Israel (most of which are intercepted and therefore not much of a threat), Israel should respond by targeting the launch points for attack by an entirely more imaginative weapon. Instead of Shock and Awe, they should be using the "You Fire Rockets, We Fire Farts"
strategic response protocol.
Buildings struck as a consequence of the "You Fire Rockets, We Fire Farts" response would find themselves totally splattered and showered with multi-coloured paint, and all kinds of sparkles. At night, the paint would become day-glow. Girly perfume bombs would be used to saturate terror suspect households, along with their vicinities.
Other projectiles would burst open in the rocket launch neighbourhoods to deliver clown outfits; party hats; frilly underwear; balloons, and footballs with funny jokes on them. Loud recordings of "The Laughing Policeman" (appropriately translated) would fill the air instead of the sound of gunfire and explosions.
It's not much fun seeing your home reduced to rubble and people torn apart by high explosives, and it creates another generation of pain, hatred and anger. Violence only provides the impetus for more violence, but there is no defence against humour, and it can always claim a higher moral ground.
Works best when deployed by both sets of belligerents.
the beautiful area around Gaza
https://www.youtube...watch?v=zqonroORsSA
In the past part of Egypt, but they don't want the "headache" [pashute, Aug 03 2014]
Woops France 24 unwillingly acknowledges...
https://www.youtube...watch?v=GSDF8UM1ofY
[pashute, Aug 03 2014]
Beautiful warfare
Back to the original and nicer idea [pashute, Aug 03 2014]
"We have children of our own. We know not to shoot innocent people"
https://www.youtube...watch?v=2s9jnfwj1s8
"And have not one single case of shooting an innocent person..." [pashute, Aug 03 2014]
Hillary
https://www.youtube...watch?v=EdeYp6PzH6U
[pashute, Aug 03 2014]
Filistinians Liesten
https://www.youtube...watch?v=zBjTuf5wrM8
We fite Gazah. We shute gaza. Israeel strong! Gazah week! [pashute, Aug 03 2014]
The Human Cost Of The Israeli-Palestinian Conflict
https://www.statist...-and-the-west-bank/
5590 to 251 fatalities - years 2008-2020 [Loris, Oct 12 2023]
Onion Explains: The Terrifying Growth Of ISIS
https://www.youtube...watch?v=T4FIo89Ll4E
[Voice, Oct 13 2023]
A summary of reality
https://www.youtube...watch?v=XNf40sBcvKk
[theircompetitor, Oct 17 2023]
[link]
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I don't support Israel's punitive measured but it's odd they're not more
effective. Is Hamas that good at disguising its activities? |
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I'm bunning this for one reason. To not bun this would
be to say "No, there's a better way to mid east
peace." and clearly, there is not. |
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I think this would be just as effective or more than
anything that's been done previously. |
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I find your proposal to use nuclear weapons disturbing. Would you say
"nuke Mecca" with the same relish? How about your own country's
capital? |
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[bigsleep] Israel is not on an "extermination" spree
of anybody. We hardly entered the Gaza strip or
Gaza city at all. The incursion has been only into
Sagaeia which is a single neighborhood alongside
the border in the center of the strip. The whole
seaside and center of Gaza city has not been
touched from the ground, and targets were only
Hamas military headcourters, or locations of
missile stashes, cave entrances or launch areas.
(google for France 24 correspondent caught near
Hamas rockets) The cities of Bet Hanoun and
Rafiah have not been touched. Bet Lahia, Jibalya
have never been touched. Israel had built a field
hospital for the population and has been careful to
warn the population in advance of any attacks.
You can watch the people not scared gathering in
the streets to watch the Israeli retaliation or
operation, and then when there's an explosion too
close they all run for a second for cover, knowing
that they the civilians are not the target and just
getting away from the dibree. |
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During each and every humanitarian cease fire,
one sided by Israel, tons of food and medicine
have been let into Gaza. Including aid from
countries
like Turkey who are at enmity with Israel. These
reached Gaza through Israel's Ashdod port. |
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Just as an aside, the Jews of Gaza have been
expelled in 1929. The Christians of Gaza were
expelled mostly after the Israeli exit in 2005.
Speaking about ethnic and religious cleansing...
(Oh yes, and the throwing of the PLO guys off the
roofs and murdering the wedding procession is
nothing to do with belief or ethnicity...) |
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Our government has decided NOT to take over
Gaza for any reason whatsoever, and particularly
NOT for exterminating the population. This is a
false accusation and a blood libel. |
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And to the topic of this idea: Missiles DO harm:
* This week 77 year old man mortally wounded in
Eshkol.
* Three weeks ago: Bedouin family killed by direct
hit of rocket on
house in the Negev.
* Ashkelon Kindergarden hit and demolished just
as children were
out in recess.
* Two weeks ago: Man wounded badly (meaning
lost some part of
the body) in Ashdod gas station.
* 80 year old woman wounded in her home in Beer
Sheva from direct hit on her building.
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Earlier:
* 14 year old Arab boy killed by anti tank missile
shot
at him when joining his father's work on border
fence.
* 14 year old boy from my town killed by anti tank
missile shot at school bus when he joined his
grandfather driving the bus, after the kids where
let off just before |
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So yes, the missiles do hit sometimes and kill. |
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In any case, the "defense only" way of thinking
cannot work, because they are constantly
checking what works and how to "improve". In the
nearby (to my town) Haella junction last week a
car filled with gas canisters each with a
detonation fuse, was stopped by a bold Israeli
soldier jumping into the car and taking over the
driver. The terrorist was arrested. |
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The only that can work is to change their mindset.
See the link and perhaps have the Gazan's discover
what a beautiful place they can turn their city into
with the 5 billion dollars that Ismail Haniya
received. |
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Humour is still a better weapon than anything used by either side. |
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At 100 people a day dying [bigsleep], it would take
165 years
-- yes years -- to equal the total of what was done
to the Jewish people, with not just the approval
but participation of movements that gave birth
the the range of political parties Hamas is part of . |
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That's statistics, and that's extermination. |
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This is a conflict, an asymmetric one, by its nature
-- but no one whose life is not immediately
affected by it is fully qualified to judge. One
often gets the feeling that some people would
prefer that the Hamas rockets destroy an
apartment building or two with a few hundred
people, so if feels more even. |
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Or want the blocade lifted, even though the
Israelis would have to go back to a bomb blowing
up in a Tel Aviv restaurant every couple of weeks,
like in Baghdad from now until the end of days. |
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It's convenient to want simple solutions when the
biggest problems in your life are whether Domino's
arrives within 30 minutes, rather than diving into a
shelter in 15 seconds. |
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Why can't the Israelis just take the bombardment,
it's not like anyone is dying. Or move to Florida or
something, they have sand too. Or Arizona. It's
just so damned inconvenient to have to look at
those pictures of people dying. Get over yourself. |
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//Why can't the Israelis just take the bombardment?// - this is my exact point. Assume the high moral ground, and fire paint bombs in response. There is nothing quite like humour and ridicule. Hamas are a disgusting organisation, so why elevate them to being an equal? It's a bit like a child throwing stones at cars, so you respond with rifle fire into their playgrounds, where the bad children are mixed in with the non-participants. |
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[bigsleep] -- that would work if we had a working
Security Council. But we don't, because Russia
refuses to see the world the same way. |
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//the nature of the world is the same everywhere// |
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I don't believe that's true. It implies that people
everywhere really just want a nice house with a
flatscreen TV and deliverable pizza. I think there
are large chunks of humanity who have beliefs that
override those material desires, strange though that
seems to most of us. |
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Well said, Mr. B. Well said. |
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Thank you. I also believe that these people need to
be found and dealt with. |
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Well said, Mr. B. Well said. |
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Remind me to surround myself with more people
like [theircom] and [blissmiss]. |
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Ha, funniest thing I've read all day. Ha! |
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Yes it is toady, but also it is not impressive to be
influenced by propaganda and to make
propaganda. That it what every anti-imperialist
has to be aware of, that they are not more naive
than the imperialist mindset. It seems from your
statements that you may be acting more naive and
trying to appeal to the more naive. An anti-
imperialist must not be deceived by any who tries
to take over any minds. Of course it seems to me
that Israel is a very small place for Jews to live in
their homeland. So it seems most of the conflict
is about that afront, that rejection even by the
Palestinian people. The world power that
supports them sadly is the scope of the conflict,
so it's a combination of things Israel's done with
blockades and settlements, and what British and
American imperialists have done, and how that
power is an afront to Islam. If the conflict ever
gets reduced down to just Israelis and Palestinians
then it will be solvable, but as long as it remains a
holdout in a long term conflict of 'clashing
civilizations', or global powers, then I'm going to
look at all the information as propaganda and just
wonder why Jews can't live in their homeland. Is
is about who the truest holy land people are, and
by virtue of that truthiness more righteous in
conflict? I thought Apartheid was a good
argument because world power was still aligned
with that thought when international delineations
of Israeli Palestinian territory were drawn up.
When in 1950 the General Assembly noted racial
segregation was necessarily based on the
doctrines
of racial discrimination. So it wouldn't hurt to
revisit old history even in the establishment of
Israel where an inter-racial conflict may be
embedded as a result of a very dominant and very
religious
intellectual force at the time. |
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//nice house with a flatscreen TV and deliverable pizza |
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I'd settle for a crap house, no pizza and no TV if I get a crack team of shadow-puppet operators who'd do the Matrix or something like that every night....get wiggling them sticks guys.. |
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*on a real note current shared dwelling is about 34 degrees every day, and more wildlife (in the form of cockroaches and mosquitoes) than a medium sized zoo. |
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//Apartheid was a good argument |
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cuts to the joke that is so old it was originally written on papyrus....it concerns the anti-apartheid activist in the laundrette, wondering if it's right to separate the whites from the coloureds... |
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I would think 2000 of any old years would
delegitimize a people's claim, but since its 2014
within their same epoch where most of the history
has been characterized by some relation to that
same holy land, I would say no it's not stretching it.
And yes I am an atheist so I don't find meaning in
those religions, but Judaism is not an expansionist
religion, so I find it least threatening of Christianity
(all branches) and Islam (all branches), of all branches
of Abrahamic. |
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Give any religious, racial, or nationalistic society of
nutcase a inch, and they will take a mile. Jew,
Muslim, Christian, etc... whatever. |
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Being able claim anything based on 2000 years old
evidence sets a bad international legal
precedence, let alone within any nation, which
is why many nations have adverse possession
laws. |
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Agreed. Pass the popcorn. Just make sure we are
not funding any side. |
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" I should have posted the rant as a separate idea " |
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Gaseous warfare, now's the time. |
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Of course neither side listened to my advice and look at the appalling situation that has resulted.
"Now look at what you've made me do" |
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Angry people make bad choices. [+] |
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A bun for the idea. Regarding the issue behind it... I think it's well past time to cut this Gordian knot and boot the Sunnis out. Sorry, but it is CLEAR by now that these two peoples either cannot or will not peacefully coexist on the same land. I think the gavel of justice must fall on the Jews' side, for the simple reason that all other claims being arguably equal (they both have lengthy history there, they both have strong religious ties there, etc), the Jews undeniably have the greatest NEED for the land. There is nowhere else on Earth for them to go where they will be welcomed by a majority of their own kind and be free of discrimination. |
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The Sunnis, on the other hand, need only cross the nearest border in any direction and they'll be in a majority Sunni country. The entire REGION is populated by their fellow Sunnis. Sorry, but if someone's gotta go, it should be the ones who have the nearest relatives nearby that can take them. |
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And I won't be told that Israel is an "apartheid state" and needs to give the Sunnis equal political representation, unless we ALSO force the Saudis and the Syrians and the Egyptians and the Jordanians to give fully equal representation to the Jews and Christians and other sectarian Muslims in their countries. |
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Xenzag this magnificent proposal brings to mind the Irish curse, translated into poetry by Ian Duhig: |
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_ Traditional Irish Charm_ |
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I curse you to suffer with |
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It's a basic strategy (for me anyway) that in situations of conflict, don't do what your enemy has predicted and well prepared for you to do. |
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Here we see two mad dogs tearing into each over a bone that neither can completely swallow. |
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Let some senior international religious leader make their way to Israel and offer take the place of the hostages then see what happens. |
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Beyond that, I just don't think anyone should cause deliberate suffering to non-combatants and cutting off their water etc is a recognised war crime used by the Nazis (seige and levelling of Warsaw and Stalingrad, along with Syria and now Russia in Ukraine). Does Israel really want to join that club of nasties? Do they really think that this tactic will cause Hamas to hand over their hostages? |
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//Does Israel really want to join that club of nasties?// |
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Israel has been in the club of nasties for years. That's why the palestinians did what they've just done. |
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Tell a small country surrounded by religious apartheid states that it can't be a religious apartheid state, and this is what you push them to. Let the Jews have their Jewish state, stop telling them they have to share it with the Arabs, if you're not going to tell the surrounding Arab states to share their countries with the Jews. |
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//That's why the palestinians did what they've just done.// “Now look at what you’ve made me do” - wife beater logic. |
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////That's why the palestinians did what they've just done.// “Now look at what you’ve made me do” - wife beater logic.// |
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Do I think the palestinian incursion across the border and civilian massacres were right or justified? No. Not morally - and I suspect (and hope) not tactically or strategically either. It's a disaster, and fucking stupid.
But Israeli solders have been killing and injuring civilians in the Gaza strip with impunity for decades. Israeli policy undermined and overthrew the one guy who might have reigned Hamas in, and has stepped up actions and rhetoric against the palestinians over the last few years.
So it's not right. But it's predictable. |
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And I'm sure pashute could provide another list of other atrocities enacted against his countrymen. But the simple fact is, the Palestinians have suffered over an order of magnitude worse over the last few decades. (Link with stats.)
If anyone's a wifebeater to use your analogy, it's Israel. |
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So about the farts, I believe hydrogen sulfide is a heavyish molecule so it should linger, perhaps having been delivered in a heavierish container thoughtfully delivered from the sky and to leak steadily via a valve. |
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Nitrous oxide would be more fun, Shirley. |
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Calling either one a wife beater in this scenario is actually pretty messed up. The western world is trying to force a marriage that neither party is interested in. The Israelis want a Jewish state (frankly they have as much of a RIGHT to it as Jordan, Egypt, and Syria have to maintain their Sunni states), and the Palestinians are ideologically dedicated to the destruction of any Jewish state. Neither one of them WANT to coexist, but they both want the house. The only options for peace are (1) the Palestinians leave (2) the Israelis leave or (3) they BOTH leave. |
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The Israelis (being Jewish) have nowhere else to go, the Palestinians (being Sunni) have MANY places they can go, just a stone's throw away. I think that makes this a REALLY simple decision. |
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//The Israelis (being Jewish) have nowhere else to go, the Palestinians (being Sunni) have MANY places they can go, just a stone's throw away. I think that makes this a REALLY simple decision.// |
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Yeah, because that would only mean booting another group of people from somewhere else out to make room for the Palestinians couldn't possibly go wrong. |
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We're talking less than half the population of NYC, if we combine the entire populations of the Gaza strip and West Bank, and you're telling me that between Jordan, Syria, Egypt, and Lebanon they don't have room? They're full, eh? |
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The greatest source of oppression of the citizens of these states is their own mad religion. Try being a member of the LBGTQ orientation in any number of places, and you'll end up being tossed off the roof of a building. Try being female and showing your hair in numerous counties and see what happens. There are mosques in Israel. How many Synagogues are there in Gaza or in any number of other states? |
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The real parties to blame here, it seems to me, are the surrounding Sunni states. Many Palestinians are TRYING to leave, but they've closed their borders and won't let them in. Do they not have international human rights obligations to take in refugees at their border? Why aren't we sanctioning Egypt and Jordan? That's where we should be applying our political pressure. |
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//We're talking less than half the population of NYC, if we combine the entire populations of the Gaza strip and West Bank, and you're telling me that between Jordan, Syria, Egypt, and Lebanon they don't have room? They're full, eh?// |
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Well, according to statista.com, the current population of Palestinian territories is 5.1 million, while google says NYC is almost 8.5 million, so technically incorrect, but let's say close. |
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However, the population of Israel in the '60s was 2 million (it's about 8.1 million now).
So what you're proposing is basically a redo of the creation of Israel, only on a bigger scale.
There's this song about an old lady who swallowed a fly, and her approach to dealing with it. Your 'solution' reminds me very much of that. |
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//The real parties to blame here, it seems to me, are the surrounding Sunni states. Many Palestinians are TRYING to leave, but they've closed their borders and won't let them in. Do they not have international human rights obligations to take in refugees at their border? Why aren't we sanctioning Egypt and Jordan? That's where we should be applying our political pressure.// |
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Many countries are absolute shits like that, including both mine and yours. |
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glad you folks are still innovating your way out of world conflicts with the respect due the situation. |
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The kids at the local highschool in NJ that are being told to be careful with their stars of david jewelry, Loris? What's with them? Or damn them together with Columbus and all the colonialists? |
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Take this as a heart felt fuck you -- you know nothing -- your attitude is the attitude of the well-fed and privileged. The Palestinian may have rights to his outrage -- you have only shame. |
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Well considering it's the well-fed and privileged to whom the world turns, time after time... |
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//glad you folks are still innovating your way out of world conflicts with the respect due the situation.
The kids at the local highschool in NJ that are being told to be careful with their stars of david jewelry, Loris? What's with them? Or damn them together with Columbus and all the colonialists?
Take this as a heart felt fuck you -- you know nothing -- your attitude is the attitude of the well-fed and privileged. The Palestinian may have rights to his outrage -- you have only shame// |
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Given the name-check, this looks like it's all addressed at me?
Seems like you didn't actually understand what I was saying at all.
Bit unfortunate. |
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//Well considering it's the well-fed and privileged to whom the world turns, time after time..// What I never understand is why the famed brotherhood of certain ethnic/religious groups does not step up and make Gaza one of the wealthiest, most desirable places in that entire region. Any number of Gulf states could do it. Saudi is wealthy beyond belief and could probably easily afford putting millions of dollars into projects to enrich the lives of those living in Gaza. Gaza could easily become what Beirut once was - a type of Mediterranean paradise. Instead of that, they sit on their obscene wealth and keep their hands in their pockets, as does every other state in the region, apart from Iran - they use their money to fund Hamas to fuel violence and hatred. |
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So, (1) where does most of the food/medicine aid etc that's sent to people of Gaza come from? - then (2) why do they need this aid? As with everything in this world now - follow the money and see where it comes from, why it's needed and where it ends up, meanwhile - stop using violence in order to try and stop violence being used. |
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"Or, guilty in defence, be thus destroy'd? For when lenity and cruelty play for a kingdom, the gentler gamester is the soonest winner." Shakespeare Henry V |
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Iran et al want Israel to have to fight its neighbor. They hate Jews more than they love Palestinians. But to see the Saudis love for their fellow man just look at how they treat their labor force. Israeli apartheid and annexation is evil too, don't get me wrong. |
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There's more than enough evil to go around in the name of God |
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Xen, it seems obvious to me that the wealthy Islamists are using the Palestinians to fight a proxy war. They NEED that land to be held by Sunnis for their religious message to carry weight, and that means they need the Israelis off it. That's not going to happen if the Palestinians get comfortable with peaceful coexistence. That's why the surrounding countries won't let them leave, and won't let them settle for anything less than victory for Islam. |
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I think it's much more simple than that. The Palestinians are both poor and led by incompetent extremists, and no nation really wants much of that. |
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the level of this analysis is typically on the level -- and I say this on this site not for the first, and probably not for the last -- time -- "it would behoove the Jews and the Arabs to behave in a more Christian like manner." |
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Roughly speaking -- a quote from the movie The Best Little Whorehouse in Texas. |
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The compassionate religion that can build artificial islands in Dubai can offer infinite money to make it Dubai. Or whatever the fuck. And some day it will. |
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[Loris I may have short read your comment, but for someone who's literally worked at the World Trade Center for both attacks, who has relatives in Israel, a friend's daughter that's a nurse in one of the hospitals working with solidiers, and with endless indigenous people's day modern self-flagellation lunacy, you got me on the wrong day. I don't want to hear explanations. No doubts there were explanations in 1492 (they were rich, the kings owed them money] for the pogroms, and for everything that's happened since. No demonstration of the understanding of root causes can help the situation any. And no one requires it -- they've heard it before. |
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I'm just glad all the fuckers at the elite universities are finally eating some of their cancel culture. About freaking time. |
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//I won't be told that Israel is an "apartheid state" and needs to give the Sunnis equal political representation, unless we ALSO force the Saudis and the Syrians and the Egyptians and the Jordanians to give fully equal representation to the Jews and Christians and other sectarian Muslims in their countries.// |
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Let's make a new Israel in Texas, and a new Palestine in Saudi Arabia. They have 10 years to emigrate. (transportation and cities with farms provided) After ten years Israel, Jeruselem, and the surrounding area will be bulldozed and anyone remaining goes to a refugee camp. If Saudi Arabia won't help bomb them, I'm sick of their shit. |
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// The Israelis (being Jewish) have nowhere else to go, the Palestinians (being Sunni) have MANY places they can go, just a stone's throw away. I think that makes this a REALLY simple decision. |
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I don't have anywhere else to go except for YOUR land, so you have to leave. Pretty simple. |
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// Can you throw something better than a mess of pottage into the bargain// |
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How is a better place and peace an inferior offer? Tell you what, we'll also move half the dirt to Texas and half to Saudi Arabia. If you two don't stop fighting over the Playstation so help me I'm going to throw it in the garbage and get each of you your own. |
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[Tatter] that sounds an awful lot like what the Sunnis are saying. If the Islamists are allowed to have MANY Islamic theocracies, then the Jews should be allowed to have a Jewish one. IT'S THAT SIMPLE. What, the Sunnis just get ALL the land because they want it? Nah fuck that. |
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