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Dogs already learn to mimic human expressions and we
know
they can make talking sounds, they have the same basic
mouth
parts and muscles we do.
The speech centers of the brain are small so they might
not
be
able to recite poetry, but they'll certainly be able to say
"Hungry. Dog treat."
"Walk." etc.
So to kick start this inevitable evolution:
1- Dog computer with treat dispenser. The gabby pooch's
meal
will be spread out over an hour or two as it's doled out in
single bite chunks throughout the meal/lesson. The
computer evaluates the dog's
abilities
and starts with rudimentary sounds. Howls and growls
are
demonstrated and then variations of them are shown
incrementally. When the dog mimics the lesson example
correctly, he gets a treat.
So you've got a dog who's talking to the best of their
genetic
ability, now what?
2- Dogs are rated as to their verbosity quotient and cross
bred
with other good talkers.
After a hundred generations or so, BAM! Talking dogs.
Like I said, gonna happen eventually, might as well be
sooner
than later.
"Rover! Speak! Speak boy!"
"Sure. What do you want me to say?"
Snail_20Koans
Reading, and writing snails. [xenzag, Oct 20 2017]
Sirius
https://www.waterst...ledon/9780575099425
Way ahead of you there. [nineteenthly, Oct 20 2017]
The palaeoanthropology of vocalisation I: vocal anatomy
https://books.googl...v=onepage&q&f=false
from Iain Morley, the prehistory of music (OUP 2013) [pocmloc, Oct 20 2017]
(?) "I don't want to lay down!"
If playback doesn't...g your device. 0:02
[2 fries shy of a happy meal, Oct 22 2017]
Prior art
The Intelligent Mouse Project
Also, [2fries], I think you copied the wrong thing when you added the previous link. [notexactly, Mar 18 2018]
Good boy! Or should I say bravo ragazzo.
https://www.faceboo...el/1055010386021921
[doctorremulac3, Sep 18 2024]
[link]
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So you've created Dogbert ... congratulations. |
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Talking dogs? - child's play! I once devised an idea of how to
teach reading and writing skills to snails.(see link) |
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This is probably cognitive bias, but I often think I hear "harro!" as
a greeting. So maybe, like native speakers of certain East-Asian
languages, dogs have trouble differentiating their liquid fricatives.
This may be because their tongues curl differently from ours, as
you can see if you watch slow-mo video of a dog drinking. |
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Therefore you should start by teaching your dog Japanese, which
has the added bonus of avoiding consonant clusters. |
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Dog: "Bark! Bark!"
Sensei san: "Boku!"
Dog: "Bark!"
Sensei san: "Yatta!"
Dog: ? |
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Also, dogs speaking Japanese would be cooler |
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Would they say "Horrrrrrrrrr ! " and wave a sword at you ? |
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How weird would it be if they actually ended up
talking like
Scoobie Doo? Plausible since their tongue, pallet,
mouth shape etc are different enough that there
would most definately be a "dog sounding voice". |
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I hate Scoobie Doo. That's the cartoon that got me
to stop watching cartoons as a kid. It came out in
1969, I was 8, and remember thinking "How stupid
do they think we are?". |
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And Shaggy was a hippie. I hated hippies.
Sometimes when we'd drive over from the ghetto
to the good side of town the hippies there would
be protesting and rioting. My dad would tell us to
lock our doors as we'd drive by. I think they were
wanting to go to war with Vietnam or something. |
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Anyway, probably a good thing. Rather than
watching cartoons I did something like work on
getting my ham radio license or going out to play
at a place called "outside", something that kids
used to do before the internet. |
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Speaking of HAM radio, it just occurred to me, I've
forgotten morse code. CQ and SOS is about all I
remember. Guess it wasn't that necessary in my
life. |
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No, not at all - that would be impolite. It would be
much more like:
You: "Hello Rover, who's a
good boy?? Who's a good doggie???"
Rover:
"Konichiwa"
You: "Would you like some breakfast?
Would you? Would you??? Yes you would, you lovely
doggie!!" *
Rover: "Domo arigato
gozaimasu"
(* all dog owners talk to their
pets as if they were mentally-deficient chidren) |
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Despite his name, and the Kombi van, wasn't Shaggy too short-
haired to be a hippy? |
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He had hippy posture. At least Hollywood's idea of
hippy posture. |
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And he was either stoned or functionally retarded,
mentally challenged or whaterver. Anyway, I hated
him and his stupid cowardly dog too. Give me some
cartoon characters with some sense of adventure.
Johnny Quest, now we're talking some good
Saturday morning programming! |
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LOL, just occurred to me, if I had a psychiatrist,
this would be the point where they said "Let's talk
about your anger towards this cartoon dog." |
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And Hippo, I missread your annotation, but it made
me think that there would be great
honor bestowed to the people whose
language was spoken by the first talking dog, and
it
would be scientifically momentous, along the lines
of: |
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"First Man In Space = Russia, |
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First Man On the Moon = U.S.A., |
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First Language Spoken By An Advanced Non Human
= Japanese. |
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By the way, are we purposefully steering away
from helping chimps advance in their evolution
because of the Planet Of The Apes movies? Movies
do effect how we do things. When I was a kid going
to be beach everybody would be swimming in the
ocean and then Jaws came out and, well, nobody
swims in the ocean any more besides surfers. |
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I think we're a little intimidated by the idea of
super smart apes getting big ideas about stuff like
"Breaking out of this cage." and "Learning how to
fire that tranquilizer gun you use on us.". |
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Dogs can already make word sounds, how hard to
make them associate certain word sounds with
certain responses from humans? |
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But that gives me an idea. |
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I think the most you'd get would be dogs that have the same range of vocalisations as current dogs, but modulated to sound humanoid. You'd get a dog that just shouted "FOOD FOOD FOOD" or "HAPPY HAPPY HAPPY". |
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Dogs are basically autistic. I think their vocalisations are basically incidental - it's not as if they think "if I make this sound, the human will understand it, and he will do this". They just have a noise they make when they're happy, another noise they make when they're hungry, etc. True language needs a whole level of thought that I don't think dogs have. |
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<pauses, to allow [8th] to make a comment about the Welsh> |
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Sp. "welsh" or alternatively, "Baaaaaa !" |
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// it's not as if they think "if I make this sound, the human will understand it, and he will do this". // |
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You have obviously never spent any time with an adult Shih Tzu. |
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That's because there is no such thing as an adult ShitZu. The ones you see are all juveniles. At 14 years they metamorphose - did you never wonder why you never see juvenile toupées? |
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//True language needs a whole level of thought
that I don't think dogs have.// |
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Well, how do we grow the speech center of a dog's
brain with gene splicing or something? |
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Put it another way, what's the difference, besides
size, between the speech center of the human
brain and the... whatever they have that's similar,
center of a dog's brain? Can we just mess with it to
supercharge it somehow? |
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I know they've done rudimentary
experimentation
with human and sheep gene splicing in some
countries for thousands of years. <-- (joke) |
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//Put it another way, what's the difference, besides size, between the speech center of the human brain and the... whatever they have that's similar// |
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I'm not sure there is an equivalent, or at least not a near one. I honestly don't know, but I think there is a whole mode of thinking that differs fundamentally between humans (who see ourselves as components in an environment which includes other people, and which we model based on perception and with which we interact) and dogs (who just "are"). It's maybe like asking which part of a human brain is equivalent to a bat's echolocation part (and no, it's not the visual cortex). |
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Clearly, you can evolve from not having language to having language (that's how we got where we are), but I suspect it needs some very deep-level editing of the way the brain works. |
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// very deep-level editing // |
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... from which it is possible to deduce that at some point in the
development of the welsh, someone when confronted with the
prompt "SAVE CHANGES AND EXIT F10, EXIT F2, RETURN ESC"
pressed F2 ... |
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Ah yes, the old Bachiawnmeddal user interface. |
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<writes HITMAN FOR IAN TINDALE on card> |
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<places card and hat on ground> |
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<drops handful of coins in hat> |
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//their bark is worse than the byte.// |
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I went to type a response and... nothing came, so
I'll write poetry. |
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"I raise my eyes to this post, and my hands stop
just above those plastic keys. No response is
forthcoming, just the sound of wind and ghosts. My
ancestors offer no wisdom, so there I sit, my gaze
fades and my thoughts turn, as they often do, to
football. The American kind of course, that people
used to watch until it turned political." |
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Doctorremulac3 Oct 21, 2917 |
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// my thoughts turn, as they often do, to football. The American kind of course, that people used to watch until it turned political. // |
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"The one constant through all the years, Doc, has been baseball. America has rolled by like an army of steamrollers. It’s been erased like a blackboard, rebuilt, and erased again. But baseball has marked the time. This field, this game, is a part of our past, Doc. It reminds us of all that once was good, and that could be again. Oh people will come, Doc. People will most definitely come." |
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Would the person or persons who kidnapped our
friend 8 and wrote this postive, even moving piece
about American culture please bring our friend back? |
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Just realised that's from that movie. Never saw it but
I think now I will. I have some free time this Sunday.
About three hours to be exact. |
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Ian, if I were feeling a bit silly about posting an
idea to get dogs to talk, I'm feeling a bit better
now seeing your link that shows people who've
basically devoted their lives to the study. |
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And they might say they're just studying dog
cognition for the sake of science, but you know
they're trying to create a super dog that wears a
smoking jacket, smokes a pipe and makes droll
witticisms. They just might not admit it to the
financial review board. |
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And yes, it would have an upper class British
accent as you suggested by using the word "fancy". |
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Although a cockney accent on a pitbull terrier
would be what I'd opt for. Put a little top hat on
that sucker. Give 'em a cigar to chew on. |
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I picture the little guy stomping around saying
stuff like "Ey mate, down't be such a wanker and
give us doggie treat eh?". Although "down't" is
probably the Australian, not the cockney version of
"don't". |
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Evolution is an inhumane, and cruel method of
optimization. Why not just to go and directly upgrade
their speech centers? It'll take 12 years to get to 1000$
computer that is as powerful as human brain, and
many generations of competition and selection to
achieve that the evolutionary way. |
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// It'll take 12 years to get to 1000$ computer that is as powerful as human brain // |
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Seriously, you need to review whatever courier you're using. UPS can ship a computer to you in three days for about 25 bucks ... that's a really poor quality of service you're getting. |
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Most humans, even on good day, would struggle to outperform a Pentium III, so it's not exactly a challenging performance target. |
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It's already known to be possible to teach dogs to read. |
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Thought English might be first, but Italian's looking pretty good. (link) |
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If I'd known the shear number of links which would decay over time I never would have posted Halfbakery Spring Cleaning. |
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Can't some bot crawl crawl this mountain of data and retrieve broken links or declare them dead once and for all? |
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Should that be a separate posting? |
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Yea, have them replaced by Wayback machine archive pages or something. |
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I'm just trying to figure out a way for an artificially intelligent brain, or 80 billion or so of them, to see humanity as a project rather than as disposable. |
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Any and all help in this regard will be greatly appreciated. |
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Shit's about to get real folks. |
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Sorry to interject this cap into your posting [Drrmulak3] but something big has shifted. Like a whump in the gut, |
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Things are going to change very quickly now and for some reason here and now is where I feel I should post it as having the greatest effect. |
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