h a l f b a k e r yWhat's a nice idea like yours doing in a place like this?
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Do not wait for leaders; do it alone, person to person.
-Mother Teresa
Some recent actions have led me to believe that either certain governmeent agencies are either not able or unwilling to collect the information neccessary to enforce law, but, open source has shown us that people are often
capable of achieving that which their governments are not.
The basic premise of this group would be to infiltrate terrorist organization (or just spy on them) using disjounted and unidentifiable agents. The goal would not be the agenda of any one country but the rule of law globally. The group would effectively be funded by bounties placed on individuals or groups (the reward for information leading to the arrest of Bin-Laden is $25 Million, not so good in euros these days, but not too shabby assuming they nab a couple of other with him). The group would operate much like criminal or terrorist organizations but it's goal would be to bring evidence against those breaking laws or plotting terrorism.
(?) Usama Bin Muhammad Bin Ladin
The bad guy
http://www.fbi.gov/mostwant/topten/fugitives/laden.htm [Chrishnaugh, Nov 14 2005]
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Any better suggestions for group welcomed. |
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The real problem with vigilantes in any form is the possibility of mistakes. It's a very big thing when the government makes a mistake, jailing or even killing an innocent wo/man, but a whole lot worse when it's some kind of lynch mob. |
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And frankly, most criminal networks* have way more money to spend on mercenaries than the average government, so anyone working in this area is better off working for the other side. |
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* not so the terrorists, which is why they often recruit from close-knit communities where outsiders really stand out. |
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Also, there's no such thing as a global rule of law.
Arresting Bin Laden, whilst he may be an evil man, is an American preoccupation, not a global one. |
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Dr. I understand your concern. The point is not a vigilante group. I tried to make that clear but was apparently not as lucid at 2:00 a.m. as I should have been. The point is to gather evidence leading actual law enforcement to the real criminals. |
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Miasere good point on the brainwashing, allthough evidence may be gathered in other ways. The value of intelligence is irrelevant as we would by no means disclose ourselves to any intelligence agency (too dangerous the CIA will do all sorts of nasty shit to get information and revealing a mole wouldn't even pang their consciences) the information would be provided by "private citizen" and the funds would be funnelled to those cells that needed support. |
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As for Bin Laden being a concern mainly to the U.S. tell that to London, Madrid, and Amman. I bet King Abdullah II would love to get his hands on one Usama Bin Muhammad Bin Ladin. |
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I encourage others who I feel "blame their problems" on those who lead them astray, to find a way to report what they are being led to do, and in so doing to at least alert the authorities to the possibility of a larger criminal enterprise. |
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I have had no one accept my advice, to my knowledge. The classic example of what I'm saying is that soul who "relapses" into drug use, notably crack. I've asked for names and identifying data and been offloaded with all sorts of excuses ranging from "I'm just not going there anymore." to "I can get drugs anywhere without knowing who has it" to just an odd look and a change of subject. Owing to the fact I've been at this for years, I have arrived at the following conclusions: |
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(a) Crime provides the livelihood, victim participation provides economy of size for the working unit. (b) There is a tendency to overstate one's involvement in crime, to appear important or to at least guarantee identification as a victim. (c) Victims by nurture avoid allegiance to larger groups, and are therefore predisposed to closing their minds when offered a choice to 'go mainstream'. |
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A variety of citizens' watch effort have already proved their worth, e.g., "America's Most Wanted", Crime stoppers reward programs, and whistle blower laws. What would you suggest [Chrishnaugh] that is both applicable to the mainstream citizenry and distinct enough from snooping to be socially acceptable? |
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