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This afternoon I was wearing a pair of really boring beige tights which I
hid under a pair of leggings. It occurred to me that the likes of Marks
and Sparks, who sell really boring underwear, probably also have a lot
of it nicked. Those shoplifters or the people whom they sell them on to
could
be punished, not by penal servitude but by being forced to wear
interesting underwear in public, particularly interesting tights, because
whereas I am perfectly happy here in my low-cut scarlet dress, polka
dot skirt and glossy black leggings, I am probably a bit unusual in that
respect for a bloke and that these may not be popular sartorial
decisions for most of the male population to go out in public in. So, as
far as male shoplifters are concerned, the retailer should be allowed to
come round their place, remove all their jeans, trackie bottoms, Y-
fronts, trousers etc., and replace them with the most ridiculous
possible tights, frillly knickers and so on, force them to photograph
themselves in a special booth at the police station every day as
documentary evidence that they're wearing the requisite clobber and
ban them from buying anything which isn't embarrassing to them
through some sort of tagging system.
Obviously it wouldn't work for perverts like I used to be or for women,
but it's a start.
This idea is basically just here for pun purposes.
American law-type dude makes inmates wear pink underwear
http://www.azcentra...derwear-appeal.html
"[the court] said dressing inmates in pink underwear ... appeared to be punishment without legal justification and noted that it’s fair to infer that the selection of pink as the underwear color was meant to symbolize the loss of prisoners’ masculinity." [calum, Dec 16 2013]
Not very impressive at that point
http://www.youtube....watch?v=N8DMeSAG-Ds
This is what I mean. Quite small at this juncture, not sure about now. [nineteenthly, Dec 20 2013]
(?) Something Noticeable Like This
http://www.uktights...net-footless-tights
This is the kind of thing you need. Bright pink so you can see them across the street :) No use having something too subtle. [uktights, Mar 26 2014]
[link]
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// perverts like I used to be // |
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The employment of the past tense in this context does not seem entirely appropriate ... |
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//I am probably a bit unusual in that respect for a
bloke// |
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I think this statement sits comfortably on the sofa
of life, alongside "the Pacific is quite moist" and
"special equipment may be needed in order to lift
Venezuela". |
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Seriously, it's completely evaporated although I understand your
scepticism. [MB], the real question is now whether the word "bloke"
still applies. anyway, what I really want to know is, is the "interesting
times" thing a myth? |
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The word "bloke" is rather like Béarnaise sauce - it
can be applied to almost anything, but is not always
appropriate. |
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Even still, of those who are delicious with it, few would be happy in
pink and lime green stripy tights, for instance, and even fewer would
find the view pleasing. |
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//in my low-cut scarlet dress, polka dot skirt// |
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Why would you wear a dress and a skirt at the same time? |
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Because the skirt on the dress is too short. I do that a lot and I
presume it's normal. The top bit of the dress looks nice but it's cold, so
I layer. Actually, is that normal? I've been presuming it is but maybe
not. |
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Yeah, it happens. Guys are bigger than girls, so often the dress is just far too short....best to get separates. |
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And ditch those tights, it's pretty unhygienic, especially in summer. |
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The tights have a practical purpose which would
probably be satisfied otherwise only by a leotard. |
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[nineteenthly] makes a point with //wouldn't work for perverts like I used to be or for women// as women are rarely seen as perverts. If he ever needs to dodge the pervert bullet, I'd suggest claiming to be a transgendered woman. That defence automatically makes your opponents fascists, similar to my claim to schizophrenia. |
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You say that as if being a pervert is a bad thing. |
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A pervert is just an unsexy person acting sexy. |
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//The tights have a practical purpose which would probably be satisfied otherwise only by a leotard |
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Thinking more on it, the more elegant solution would be one of them foundation garments which ladies with small hips and bums wear, it has quite a wedge of padding and would tend to level things out. |
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Enough of this prosaic advice...back to superconducting cheese, with extra monkeys. |
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I'm not really convinced that skirts or dresses are a
wise option even for women. Given the
complexities that you, [19thly], seem to be
experiencing, not to mention the need for tights
for some additional and unspecified porpoise,
would you not be better off modelling your
tendencies on women who wear jeans? Simpler all
round, shirley? |
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To put it another way, if I were going to model
myself on a woman, I'd probably pick the sort of
woman who dresses pretty much the way I already
do. Much less expensive, wardrobially speaking. |
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//skirts or dresses are a wise option even for women. |
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I have to agree, given the sheer number of "beware of upskirting" posters on the escalators in Akihabara station. I'd recommend wearing trousers, and at least one pair of bicycle clips, just to be on the safe side. |
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This idea is basically just here for pun purposes. [-] |
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I'll modify that then: this idea is inspired by a pun. |
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There can be great honour in being a pervert. In my case it meant that
I never once in my entire life objectified another person sexually, and I
consider that to be very positive. The fact that my unusual sexual
desires have now evaporated is rather worrying in some ways for that
reason and I'm concerned about fancying people. It is quite a surreal
and weirdly "quiet" experience to find that wearing all this stuff is
entirely unerotic. It never would have been for me but other things
would and I admit that I used to be suspicious of my motives.
Apparently, and startlingly, those suspicions were unfounded. |
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Transgendered woman? Well, that's how many people seem to see me
but since I see gender as determined by how others have seen one in
one's formative years, there is no such category for me and even if I
had a fully functional female reproductive system I would still be
male. This has led to rather vexing discussions with [grayure]. |
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Regarding the stereotypical gear, you have to remember that I've been
restraining myself from wearing what seems to me to be perfectly
normal clothing because of the reactions of others for 46 years, and
am now swinging back the other way. Also, never got on with jeans.
It's also amazingly quick getting dressed if you wear certain dresses
and that is very convenient. |
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So: regarding the question of offenders, it occurs to me to wonder
how large the overlap is between those who are wont remove items
from shops without paying for them and those in the surprisingly tiny
category of people who are wont to take the piss out of me. It may be
rather small but for the intersection, to me there seems to be an
element of poetic justice. |
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"All I did was shoplift a lipstick". |
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k.... well... you've been a "bloke", to me and I assume everybody else on the other end of your pixels, for over half a decade, longer for others... I don't feel the need to do any mental reorganization. |
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The bit that's missing from the idea, even though it seems to be implied in the annos, is how the punishment is supposed to fit the crime. Surely that would be only really appropriate to cases where the crime was a result of the accused putting on an alpha-male show, and remaining unrepentant about it or, putting it a bit more precisely, an asshole pretending to be a prick... like a bike rider cutting off a pedestrian while riding on the sidewalk. Or a slob (a stereotypical male attribute) tossing his garbage onto your property. |
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Other than that it's pretty much a slap in the face to non-criminal women, no ? or even men whose sartorial preferences tend towards the "dandy" end of the scale. [-] |
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Have you tried male clothing with generic Western-bias female attributes ? Kilts, robes, or pretty well anything from the '70s. Or the rock'n'roll wardrobing in general. |
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There's no doubt that this is a mid-life crisis, but an unusual one.
Trying to avoid fuelling my self-absorption but I've always wished I'd
been born female and as life goes on, just as other men might start
counting down to their deaths and wondering how much they can
really achieve, so I count down to my own and gloomily contemplate
the fact that I'm still male. I would also say that I think another factor
may be endocrine - steady decline of androgens making the issue feel
more pronounced. Don't ask me how that works. But, to contemplate
my navel rather less, I'm now thinking about the possibility of every
life stage thing, e.g. puberty, being associated with significant
hormonal changes. Probably medical nurbalism all over again. |
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I still recommend a good regimen of weight training.
It'll get your mind off of things, which is what I
suspect more than a few bakers need from time to
time. |
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//steady decline of androgens making the issue feel more pronounced. Don't ask me how that works. |
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Type 2 transgender...comes on in middle age as the testosterone level goes down, a common form. |
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The downside is hormones won't do anything (probably) this late in the day, on the other hand you missed on 30 odd years of pmt. For the record, I am transgender, but I find halfbakery a lot more interesting. |
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Enough of my tedious personal life, bring on the superconducting cheese, with ukelele playing baboons. |
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Everyone knows that cheese makes for an excellent
insulator, or insulation, or helps you build insulation,
or something... |
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Thanks, [not]. I've been aware of being GID since I was seven though.
Also, I'm definitely getting results with what I'm doing, even now. |
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Uso! (the more polite meaning therof) |
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I have similar issues to [19thly]. In my case, I have
long thought that I am a thin, attractive person born
in the body of an overweight, unattractive one. It's
hell. If I didn't have alcohol, antidepressants and
alcohol to fall back on, I don't know where I'd be. Oh
and alcohol. |
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//I am a thin, attractive person born in the body of an
overweight, unattractive one// |
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Well, to be fair, it really is sorta true that all babies
look like Winston Churchill. |
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However, the midwife who delivered Winston
Churchill said that he looked "rather like Emily
Bronte". |
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No no, you misheard. She said a brontosaurus. |
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"Uso"? I can only assure you that it's true but without posting NSFW
pictures which I would in any case feel rather reticent about, I can't
really confirm it and you can choose to trust me or not and I can
choose to let go of how I feel about your opinion. |
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There is no sense in which I am a woman trapped in a male body
because I will always be male, even if I had a fully functional
reproductive system with a uterus and ovaries. This is because
gender is determined by how others have perceived one in the past
rather than how one is perceived now or how one understands
oneself. Rather, I am an individual to whom being male is an
incurable but manageable physical illness. It's not an illness for most
people but it is to me, and it's more a physical illness than a mental
health problem although it's also a mental health problem. I choose
not to impose this interpretation of my situation upon others as I feel
it may have depressive elements but it probably needs to stay there so
as not to make other people unhappy. |
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I uso-ed only on the getting results at a relatively late in life.. |
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//but without posting NSFW pictures |
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Post away, I'm easy. NSFW? I prefer JPG myself. |
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Almost worth posting mine, but Jutta would have to burn the hard disk afterwards. |
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Well there you go, not a pretty sight are they? Particularly when there's
still chest hair. OK, I'll put something together. It really is a bit of a
downer that I didn't do it before but it is also totally brilliant having
children. |
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Having said all this, I am still aware that there was an idea in here
somewhere before this turned into a showcase for my self-indulgence,
based on a pun though it was. OK, so to address you all in turn, yes
there are plenty of sexually nonconformist women, and I have come
across quite a few in certain online fora. The versions of female
sexuality claimed by many seem to be refuted in at least a few cases
and I clearly did get it wrong, as some of them have pointed out. |
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Right now I'm doing fine with the tights but then the relevant organs
are thankfully not what they were and to some extent - gach, never
mind, more self-indulgence. |
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[FT], I agree it needs refinement. I shouldn't and in fact no longer see
the male of the species as a huge mass of negativity and that's
gradually filtering through as the realisation that that was my own
self-loathing being projected onto others makes itself felt. Not all men
are bastards, of course. OK, so maybe instead of the shoplifting per
se, a response to particular kinds of stereotypical male
misdemeanours. The problem of demonizing the likes of myself
persists there unless - well, how about a "branding" approach of
printing the crime whereof one is found guilty on the garments
themselves? Still feels quite vindictive of course. |
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Oh, and Churchill? I hear the babies who look unlike him look like ET,
so maybe he looked like that. |
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Incidentally, sheesh, something has nicked my mojo on here this year
and I'm pretty sure it's the change, for me personally. Maybe it's gone
for good and I'll start doing something different like actually making a
living or something. Not suggesting that would happen to anyone else
though. |
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Weight training is more [grayure]'s forte as she is way more muscle
bound than I and I like it that way: big hunky woman, love of my life,
hmmm! |
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This is all very interesting to me, as my best friend in
college was TG and it's bringing up all manner of things I
haven't thought about in years, old knowledge being
scraped across a new mind. |
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It's not the muscle-bound-ness, it's the hormonal
adjustment, confidence, and sense of self-ease that
comes with the workout that is worth its weight in
cast iron weights. |
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//Well there you go, not a pretty sight are they? |
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Erm....I can't see anything...try emailing me on mnkytown@yahoo.com. |
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If you're really unlucky I'll drop you my youtube channel name. |
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No, I haven't posted them yet. You can see earlier
and possibly smaller versions at the YouTube link I'm
about to post. |
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It is indeed the confidence and emotional
adjustment I've achieved, [Rayford]. |
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Laser, I think a spot of laser hair removal might be an idea, try and find a clinic with a proper laser, those Epilight things just don`t do the trick IMHO. |
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Right. This is just for nineteenthly. My youtube handle is shimotsumaMG. I really, really recommend not looking me up if transgender stuff is not your cup of tea. Seriousna. |
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Thanks, I'll look you up now. Yeah, chest hair and
boobs not a good combination I think. I need laser
but can't afford it. |
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As an afterthought, laser don't work too well on light-coloured hair, only on dark. |
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I think it's the other way around. |
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The thing is, I think, skin is translucent so you can
see the roots even if you're perfectly clean-shaven,
particularly if you have dark hair. Does it actually
destroy the follicle? Right now I'm thinking waxing,
sugaring or facial epilator due to the stress this is
causing [grayure]. Really didn't anticipate that. |
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//I think it's the other way around. |
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Errr....actually no, great on dark hair, lousy on fair, as
not so much absorption of the energy from the laser.
Also naff for dark-skinned or suntanned folk as it just
burns the skin. |
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//skin is translucent so you can see the roots even if
you're perfectly clean-shaven, |
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Yep, like on my face, back in the day. That's how laser
works, the light penetrates the skin and zaps the
follicles. |
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//waxing, sugaring or facial epilator |
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Are we talking face or chest? None of those are
permanent solutions..and waxing is flippin' painful in
my experience*, short term and painful. Laser is not
painful and long term, so my money went on laser. |
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The bad news is face needs to lasered every month
for say, 9 months, so we are talking big money. Chest
hair grows more slowly (from memory) so it only needs
to get done every two months (from memory) ..so
more costly, but over a longer period. |
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QED shave the face, laser the chest. |
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Also laser is cheaper elsewhere in the EU, one really
good one was in Budapest, the lady is used to folk like
us and does a phenomenally good job. Easyjet to
Budapest is cheap, so make it a weekend break and
go eat tiramisu**. |
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Dammit, I should be charging for this |
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* I paid good money to the waxer to stop doing the
waxing, money very well spent IMHO. |
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** But god's sake, don't try the cappuchino over there,
it's crap. |
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Aha! Lasers! Now we can start taking this idea seriously. |
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Well, if it's a question of removing facial hair and
the like from male offenders, maybe, but that's a
bit permanent and expensive for the government.
Tights are cheaper than laser treatment. |
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It's a compromise, [not]. Whereas I could do that,
my current concerns are making it too "real" for
the other half because whereas she has always
known, being confronted with the reality of the
situation is difficult. Ergo, shaving and waxing
rather than irreversible stuff. Painful but
necessary, at least as a temporary compromise.
Although I'm not convinced that ultimately laser
would be cheaper than shaving since I'm getting
through three months (allegedly) of razor blades
per week right now. |
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//Although I'm not convinced that ultimately laser
would be cheaper than shaving since I'm getting
through three months (allegedly) of razor blades per
week right now. |
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Well, it's the permanency that is the attraction. Shaving
is fine, if a little tedious..me I go to the store and buy
the cheapest hair conditioner, that's a cheap
substitute for shaving gel on body hair. Epilator and
waxing doesn't seem a good solution as you need to
let the hairs grow quite long first, which doesn't seem
that aesthetic. |
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Anyway, it's your body, not mine, so do what's best for
you. |
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//Tights are cheaper than laser treatment. |
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I see, you want the inmates to wear the tights on their
heads, to hide the stubble? |
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It's kind of like an eating disorder, what's in the mirror
and the self-image don't match. It's a motivation to do
things, so there is some (borderline)adventure in my life. |
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Probably neither, as it's not possible to see yourself as
others see you. |
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I'm always surprised by people if they tell me what they
thought of me, on first meeting, seems to be some
random impressions. |
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//win a Olympic track medal.... I just have to accept that
it's not going to happen. |
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Should have given a bigger bribe to the judges, or go
talk to whatever that cyclist was called who did all the
blood doping. NB nmr co free apostrophisation service
last Friday of the month, at your service. |
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It's quite notable that people really don't get it unless they have it,
something I didn't notice until recently. No matter how intimately
someone knows me, they don't understand, but complete strangers
who happen to be gender dysphoric, including female-assigned
people, usually or always empathise immediately with various
experiences. I agree with the eating disorder point totally, and in fact I
have basically that exact experience with my chest - I can't tell if I
have breasts or not in the same way as I used not to be able to notice
that my acne had cleared up in my early twenties. |
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[Bigsleep], I would say two things about it which might make sense.
Firstly, there are people with brain injuries who cannot accept that one
of their limbs is part of their body or that certain family members are
not impostors. Broader than this are the experience of fetishism and
phobias. I had two paraphilias which made no sense to anyone else,
plus a button phobia. All three have now gone. When I had those, it
would have seemed self-evident to me that the first two were turn ons
and the third was terrifying. Now I look back on them with bafflement,
hence my status as an ex-pervert. |
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Secondly, absurd though it seems, it's probably quite easy to reach
empathy if you simply imagine you have a body of the wrong gender.
For instance, I feel ridiculously and depressingly hairy, and it feels like
a disfigurement. I don't like seeing or feeling any stubble whatsoever
because it reminds me I have a body which is rebelling against my will
relentlessly and insisting on being the wrong gender. I can and have
distracted myself from it, but it's always there. |
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//Isn't that a completely separate issue? |
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Er, no. More people die as a result of other's
impressions, (ie this person is
black, Jewish, moslem, KKK or geography
teacher so I can
refuse to give them a job/abuse/hurt/kill them) than
suffer harm
from their own self-image. At a wild guess. |
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Also it's some kind of exploration of life from a different
perspective. I've been to lots of other countries, but is
it actually possible for me to see life from a female
perspective? Are my new experiences valid? Am I just
Dr Livingstone for a different kind of exploration. |
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Experiences up until this point involve mobs with
pitchforks and burning torches, and not having buy my
own drinks, so the jury is out. |
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//button phobia// r u left-handed ? |
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Which one is my alter-ego? Having two lives is a bit boring and it'd easier to just have the one. I sorted my name change and passport, so legally I am just the one person. Joining a slightly looked down on minority does have career ramifications. |
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//I was interested to here how you intellectually dissect the problem |
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Oh blimey, we could be here all night. What is a male or female personality? Can I know that what I would think of female personality is accurate or not? In reality, it's more of a feeling, or a series of feelings that something just isn't quite right. It can be big things, or little things, like in 2003 I found I could see women's makeup, which is really not a guy trait, trust me on that one. |
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Anyway, I'm English and not so very comfortable in baring what passes for my soul. So, just believe me, it's very different to being "a man". |
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So, before we have to rename to newhalf-bakery (forgive my local slang) I am going to shut up. Anybody needs some advice on this, sure, fine, otherwise - no. |
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I think I see your point, [FT], and the answer is that I thought I was
right-handed until recently when I realised that in fact I'm
ambidextrous or left-handed (cross-dominant?) in everything except
writing, in which I'm extremely right-handed. |
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The point about externality is important. My view is that gender is
externally and historically defined, i.e. you are female if you have been
thought of as female by most of the people with whom you have come
into contact in your formative years and male with the appropriate
terms replaced. It's neither a biological nor a psychological category.
I realise this is different than the way most other people think of it, but
as usual when I think something weird, it accords with the groupthink
of analytical philosophy. I also have a lot of emotional investment in
that belief, and if something happens to dislodge it, basically all hell
will break loose in my personal life, so I'm deliberately trying to avoid
examining it, which is very difficult. If I come to the conclusion
instead that gender is psychologically defined, or that it's fluid, at least
for myself if not others, I will conclude that I'm female and act
accordingly. That decision will lead to divorce, so I'm not going there. |
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