h a l f b a k e r yA few slices short of a loaf.
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Can you supersize that for me? |
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Bogemoy! It's kuvaldometry for the masses!
You could have a picture of Charles Martel on the package. |
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But will the Linus Torvalds signature edition be available to wield by Christmas? Or Next? |
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Microsoft Windows doesn't work? But, that's what I'm running on this machine. Say, that might well be the source of the monotonous droning that pops up every so often! |
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This 'threadette' if you will, was inspired last night after WindowsXP, disagreeing with a particular nVidia driver, decided to destroy itself beyond recovery. Laugh? I laughed so much I nearly shat my leg off...much swearing and violence ensued. |
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[marked for deletion]-rant. A rant I fully agree with, but this here is the halfbakery, not fullrantery. |
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But, it does bring up a question that I'm curious about. I would tend to blame the problem mostly on the device driver not being compatible with WindowsXP instead of the other way around. I have no idea if this was what was on Dave's mind, but in *nix, is it impossible to write a device driver that will crash the operating system? Are non-Windows OS'es just out-and-out superior in crash prevention and/or graceful recovery? |
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[sophocles] is right of course, but this can take one of my croissants with it as grave goods when it goes to the great Halfbakery Recycle Bin. |
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I think in Unix or Unix like systems the device driver has to be compiled into the kernel giving you the opportunity to see the compile-time errors, etc, before running the driver code. In Win, the drivers are executed assuming they are good which can be bad. |
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On the one hand you have a heck of a difficult install and on the other you have the risk of the driver exploding (and nVidia's drivers top the list of reasons why Windows crashes and by a wide margin.) |
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Of course, I haven't any real idea of what I am talking about. I'm just guessing. |
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I'm guessing that Nvidia is not marketed by Microsoft.
(been there, done that and felt like using this idea as well) |
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mmhuh? It's not a Microsoft product. Why would they market it? |
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MS doesn't write drivers except for their own peripherals like gaming joysticks. There are some truly atrocious drivers out there, too. Some of Epsons scanner drivers and HP printer drivers are truly dreadful. |
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I'm guessing that Susan's comment is intended to imply that Microsoft supplied drivers would undoubtedly be technically superior and more stable. |
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They (MS) have a driver standards (logo standard or certification) but many manufacturers release drivers without certifying them as the certification process can take a lot of time and cost a lot of money. There are a lot of edge conditions, configurations and layers of regressions to test. |
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I was kidding. Actually, I figured that she was just jumping on the old bandwagon of saying that other people can't write software that works with Windows because of all the "secret stuff" that MS won't tell anybody or "Windows intentionally works poorly with software not sold by MS". |
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Oh, yes. All that secret stuff. |
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uh.... it's not paranoia. It's literally a finding of FACT by courts that the company has repeatedly done numerous sorts of illegal acts that lock out competition. |
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Doh! Here I am getting caught up in the rant too and souring the halfbakery. My apologies. This anno can be deleted along with the "idea" as is normal practice. |
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The courts were likely right about some of the anti-competitive business practices. However, there is no discussion here about a competing product. My point was exactly that: people are quick to generalize. In the mentioned case, I seriously doubt that MS intentionally did anything to keep a popular video card from working with its operating system. A driver written by a third party caused a failure in a Microsoft product and the finger was pointed at Microsoft instead of nVidia. If I go to Chief auto parts and buy a fuel injector for my car and that injector constantly runs lean and causes a piston to melt down, I don't blame GM for the failure. |
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BTW - I don't work for MS, I don't own MS stock and am not a close, personal friend to or relative of any employees, past or present. I'm just pointing out that people have become conditioned to consider it an easy target. Anti-MS rants are nothing new. I've had a few myself. |
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I'm not in any way an expert, but I suspect that if Linux does gain the share of the desktop that proponents hope for, and the user base continues to become less and less geeky, similar usability and compatibility complaints will begin to crop up there as well. If they don't, it will be, in no small part, due to the authors of such software having wisely gained from Microsoft's pain. |
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Okay, I'm done with my anti-rant ranting now. :-) |
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See, I knew people could hear my thoughts!
And yes! it is all a conspiracy
<off to paranoia paradise> |
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Seriously..The comment was about my annoyance over the fact that there is a need for additional drivers at all. While there could be a debate over who will make the superiour driver I would much rather have one driver to support all. But that would put a damper on both free market and free thinking. |
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Oh. Sorry to misinterpret your intent, [Susan]. So, actually what you want is a piece of software that acts as an intermediary between a given operating system and every different type, brand, function and feature of every conceivable piece of peripheral hardware that ever has or ever will exist? I missed that by miles. |
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That's some mighty free thinkin' there, SuzyQ. You do think big. |
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No offence taken [half], I usually think in loops that not many seem to understand. My brain automatically drives all possible equitions through a single format and then prints these lines through an intermediar program.... |
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Also not marketed by Microsoft, hence the confusion. |
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I am lying through my teeth here. Off course I think MS is responsible. They hug the market and make products that are only interchangeable with other MS products. Then when I buy a microsoft product (Windows XP, being to unimaginative to steal it) it turns out that I can no longer play AOM, because suddenly my video drivers are no longer addequate leading me to believe they intentionally made XP non-working with certain video drivers of which they knew where being sold big out there.
Wretched conscience. just had to come out and admitt it. |
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Microsoft does not write the drivers for your video hardware (except for some with very basic functionality that usually function with most video cards so that your computer will run even if you don't have the hardware specific drivers.). |
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There are two possible ways of looking at this: Microsoft modified XP in such a way as to no longer support drivers written for previous versions of operating systems. |
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The other way to see it is is that your hardware manufacturer has stopped supporting your hardware and therefore chose not to write a driver that works with XP (assuming you've tried to get an updated video driver from the manufacturer and it doesn't exist). |
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Just because I'm curious about the perceptions that drive this issue, I'll ask: in your mind, what specifically does MS gain by preventing you from using your old hardware with its new operating system? |
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I'm always amazed that all these bits made by different people talk to each other as well as they do. |
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Again, not for the HB, but you will find, on other sites, reports of how Microsoft was losing tons of money on the Xbox, and how Nvidia was providing them the video card for a small profit. Microsoft tried to get Nvidia to provide the video cards below production cost (share the business loss), and Nvidia said "no way" (good call). So, it could be reasonably presumed that Microsoft decided not to support Nvidia much when Nvidia tried to write an XP compatible driver to try to get Nvidia to "play ball" again (do whatever Microsoft wants, even take business losses to help Microsoft gain market share.) Microsoft does have different levels of documentation, and share API's based on business reasons. Very much UNLIKE how the internet was built with standard protocols. |
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This is exactly the type of thing Microsoft has done daily, and is how they are so profitable, and why they are reviled by so many in the tech industry. It's been found true in a court of law, it's just gone unpunished. |
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That's your interpretation and that's fine. It's not at all what I believe, however. |
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Regarding driver problems above: |
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The fact that an operating system may fail to run if a 'bad' (incorrect version/corrupt/buggy) driver is installed is not really a fault of the OS writer. The inability to undo it and get the functioning system is, though.
The only exceptions I can think of are maliciously-coded drivers and alterations of the driver for storage device on which the OS itself is held. Neither of which should be a problem in practice. |
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God, said the atheist, this is way out of my league. |
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Half: What Sophocles said: |
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The benefit for MS being that people would stop buying videocards that are supported by Nvidia and buy more MS videocards. |
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What was most frustrating is that I was directed to these Nvidia driver uploads after I had sent an automated fault report to MS helpdesk. Why send me to a site to download drivers that will make my system crash? I figured it was to entice me to buy MS products, since obviously the product I have (Nvidia Drived) doesnt work. But seeing your annotations I'm starting to wonder.... |
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Maybe Microsoft Isn't all that evil??? I guess it has something to do with me being a MS-dos junkie? |
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Umm...MS doesn't make nor have they ever made a video card. |
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