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It's about time somebody tacked a list of complaints to
those self-important whackjobs' white lacquered door.
Good luck dodging the hit squads. |
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Isn't that what the Freezone is? |
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Given recent health trends, a tremendous
opportunity to make Hubbard relevant to the current
generation exists for the brave soul who will write
Dianetics for Diabetics. |
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What's freezone? Also Paul Thomas Andersons movie The Master is a good start on how to begin reinterpreting L Ron Hubbards teachings |
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Freezoners are the discontents of Scientology who
reject the Org but continue to adhere to the belief
system. I would see them as the Protestants of the
movement. |
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Wow, I was just satirically pointing out the $/knowledge aspect of scientology and since their belief system is essentially a secret product, that it could be copied, improved and sold for cheaper. but those freezone bastards released it open source. |
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I've never really liked Hubbard - not since I found out
how he treated his old mother. |
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I wonder if there are any actual scientists who are scientologists, I doubt it. |
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There are scientologists who play scientists on t.v. |
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Scientology pretty much seems to disregard both the
scientific process and before that the notion that anything
inexplicable has a logical explanation that doesn't involve
aliens, so no, from the lay perspective I doubt there are
any real scientists in the scientology cult. |
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*I would apologize to any scientologist 'bakers, but A) I'd be
surprised if there are any and B) scientologists are
nutcases. |
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I have never heard of a professional scientist
being a scientologist. This may be because
professional sciencing requires at least a modicum
of intelligence. For similar reasons, there are
relatively few professional scientists who admit to
religion or any other form of superstition,
although there are a few. |
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I would imagine that that sort of person is more
likely to wind up in cosmology or mathematics
than in, say, biology or chemistry. |
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The unauthorised biography of L Ron Hubbard, 'Bare-Faced
Messiah' (no idea how the author managed to avoid being sued)
mentions a biologist who chooses to interpret the history of life
account in the belief system (I would call it a religion) figuratively but I
seem to remember he struggled. |
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Thanks for the link Zeno, fascinating. |
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An interesting proposal. Although I would call it
Hubbub. Basically it's the L Ron Hubbard fanclub as far
as I can see. He is a fairly well published paperback
author. I still see his paper and hardbacks at bookstores
in varying degrees of having been toilet readery.
Scientology exibits a tendency of people to form fan
collectives around individuals who have established a
discoursive category. That L Ron Hubbard decided to
institutionalize himself using a bit of applied sociology is
an act of positivist scientological Comte-ian social
physics. In a scientological sociological manner of
speaking he is a god. The content of his religion is
absurd, but he's a scientist because he engineered a
social form around a bunch of senseless content as far as
I can tell. So I'm not a scientologist except as an ironic
declaration on a census form, and would certainly never
pay tribute in any form to the L Ron Hubbard fanclub
because I'm not a fan of his fiction. |
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//he's a scientist because he engineered a social form around a bunch of senseless content// |
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That seems to be stretching the definition of "scientist" a bit far. |
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Not in Comte's use of the term. He said social scientists,
or social physicists would be gods. L Ron Hubbard
definitely aspired to that status. If not a scientist then a
scientician or a scientologist. |
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Doesn't that make him more a social engineer? |
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Well, a scientologist. Social scientists are not like usual
scientists, and are not always easy to see. Sometimes
they don't consider themselves social scientists.
Marketers, media industry professionals, educators,
police,
web designers, musicians and actors, writers, cult
leaders,
even popular people, business executives are often
social
scientists, but it's a science that can be mostly intuitive
without education, training and identity formation.
Usually they will be working with people in a social
capacity, but often in another capacity. My landlord is a
social scientist because she manages a hive, or a
building and places signs, and warnings in order to
'control' and better predict behaviour. She also utilizes
surveillance and a building manager. In a manner she
uses science to manage risk in the building. She could
make a shrine in a corner and pray that every tenant
takes care of the building, but instead uses a
combination of social technologies signs, authority,
surveillance to control and predict behaviour. |
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Using science and furthering scientific knowledge seems
like a key distinction. By the former definition, yes, LRH
might be considered a scientist, as would just about anyone
who uses any form of objective, evidence-based decision
making. |
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Now that some evidential standpoint for the meaning of
social scientist has been established we can discuss 19th
to late mid-20th century positivism and social order and
the basic function of 15th century woodcuts as the
hermeneutic medium of reality semiotics. |
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In addition super-accelerated pragmatism as the sole
determinant of truth-power and the machinations of state
socialist hyper industrial capitalism and the entire global
cultivation of semiotic proof-power truths. |
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Well if he studied and made his religion analogous on
some
level with other stable social structures that exist in
science fiction, organized society, and other religions.
For
example building an analogy with mormonism would
definitely keep his spaceship alive through time.
Surprisingly that's like doing something crazy and
pointing
out its like something in a popular and long lasting TV
show or movie. But the shrine is also a communication
tool communicating to the reciever that the
prayermaker has prayers ands wants them answered by
higher authority and you should act in the wisdom of
that higher authority. |
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//I wonder if there are any actual scientists who are scientologists, I doubt it.// |
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Scientology doesn't take the 'scien-' part from 'science', but simply uses the prefix to mean 'knowledge' to denote that the apparent purpose is that its members will gain knowledge of themselves and the world around them - it is literally supposed to mean 'the study of knowledge'. |
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//So I'm not a scientologist except as an ironic declaration on a census form// |
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Since you find the content of Scientology to be 'absurd', it seems likely that you will also question the validity of this fanclub being so controlling of its members and the extent of the extraction of money from them. It is well documented that if one member of a family chooses to leave the 'Church' that they must be immediately cut-off forever: never seen nor spoken to ever again; I know a family who was split up by similar means. Such practices are generally not supported by most who think it to be a 'fanclub' of 'absurd' beliefs. |
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If you have this view, it is therfore highly irresponsible and dangerous to claim allegence on official documents in the name of irony. Your submission of such a statement on a census form bolsters the 'Church's' claim to be a genuine religion (is it fair that the fanclubs of other writers have none of the benefits associated with official recognition of 'religious' status?) and allows them to use your apparent addition to their numbers to claim a right to hold greater sway over people the world over. |
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Having said all that, it should be mentioned that they have many folowers who find their gained knowledge and training of the mind to be genuinely useful in everyday life, and they have had some significant success with reforming drug addicts, though it could be said that they replace one addiction with another. It is only at the very high levels of the 'religion' that such lunacies as their creation myth are revealed to members (after many very expensive courses), and even then, they believe that should the unprepared hear such things as the story of Xenu, they would very soon die of pneumonia. |
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I think you're all ascribing far too noble motives to
the clowns at
the top end of scientology.
Take a hard look at it and you'll realise it's an
outgrowth of
Heinlein's (Stranger In A Strange Land) religion as a
tax dodge. Cruise and the other high office
holders are simply laundering money through a
"church" they can
control. |
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That's the most believable thing I've ever heard said about
scientology. |
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Im not so sure its that cut and dry. Unless Cruise is acting like a lunatic all the time, but is really sane, and its just to be PR for a massive ponzi scheme that him and only a couple others are aware of. Only a preclear SP would think that. |
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They're professional actors, [leinypoo]. They can be
whatever they want to be and we wouldn't know the
difference. |
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Agreed. If Cruise can move me near to tears as Klaus von
Stauffenberg he could probably sell me any lie, maybe even
a whopper like 'Mission Impossible 2' (there is no way a
Beretta M9 will fire more than once after being buried in
wet sand!). |
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Whenever I see L Ron Hubbard, I'm compelled to read I
Ron Hubbard as if some sort of weird solipsistic
declaration, somewhat like Being John Malcovitch.
Overall, scientology demonstrates a social phenomena
that accounts for the existence of so many
denominations of churches and churches themselves.
To some extent it proves to me that the Roman Catholic
church really exists to monopolize the tendency of
people to join strange existential cults, and makes a
normalised, mainstream one that's cooky enough, and
righteous enough for almost anyone. Although the
serious conflict between opposing existential cults sort
of highlights the failure of that effort. |
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Nah, hes just nuts, its no different than any other religion, it provides structure, purpose, and absolves you of personal responsibility (if you just do what you're supposed to). And is a bunch of good practical advice mixed with nonsense. Problem is that their particular brand of nonsense is easily disproved, but by linking the nonsense as cause and effect with the practical advice it creates the impression that it works in the users mind. |
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The good practical advice that scientology "teaches" is reinventing the wheel but packaged in a militaristic acronyms. An engram was proposed before Dianetics as a spot in the consciouness where a representation of an external entity exists, which has since been shown to be true (Brittany spears nature paper). The 'reactive mind' is what Buddhism is all about overcoming and becoming of aware of your own thoughts as a means of self therapy. 'Auditing' is just another type of therapy from what I can tell (ironically since they hate psychiatrists). |
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But it works to some extent and so people will generally believe anything they get a reward for believing. For Cruise, he probably wants to just wants to save the world but is too lazy to become a researcher. |
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If scientology takes over it will be normalcy and you will be
nuts. |
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The same statement can be made of any form of lunacy.
Doesn't make it any less nuts. |
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Have you read the history of psychiatry? |
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A little bit, but I focus my efforts primarily on contributing
to it. |
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I like to keep my contributions strictly to the history of
madness. |
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Same thing. When was the last time you had a shrink who
wasn't just as nukking futz as you are? |
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//I'm compelled to read I Ron Hubbard as if some sort of weird solipsistic declaration// |
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Ha! When I saw my dad's copy of 'Calculus I' as a child I thought it was a rather pompous name for an autobiography. |
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As for L Ron Hubbard, it's telling that the satanists eventually found him too evil and kicked him out. He was a manipulative, self-aggrandising, plagiarising liar. In short, a psychopath. |
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You have to admit that suit of his 'was' pretty schnazzy though, in a futuristicy kind of way. |
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Ok... just so I've got this straight. |
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Step one: Achieve enough fame to hob-nob with some celebrities and wealthy individuals.
Step two: Hypnotise inner cadre of said wealthy charismatic individuals. "When I snap my fingers you will awake feeling refreshed, spiritually reborn, whole... and, oh yes... compelled to donate." <snap>
Step three: Use celebrity and appearance of power to sway many followers to build pyramidal base of ladder climbers to potentially hypnotise later, (if needed)
Step four: Profit. |
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Is that about right?
I just want to make sure. Y'know, for... for science. |
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Step five: Periodically, when enough people want to murder or indict you, slink away to a new hidey-hole, leaving your 'friends' and family to face the music. |
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Well now that's just guilding the lily. |
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The Lily Guild is a great place to let your talents blossom. |
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<whispers> I heard that if you don't pay your dues they make you push daisies though. |
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Therefore, to be possess'd with double pomp,
To guard a title that was rich before,
To gild refined gold, to paint the lily,
To throw a perfume on the violet,
To smooth the ice, or add another hue
Unto the rainbow, or with taper-light
To seek the beauteous eye of heaven to garnish
Is wasteful and ridiculous excess. |
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-Shakespeare, King John (Link). |
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