h a l f b a k e r yCeci n'est pas une idée.
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Take the gyroscopic generator from the [linked] ocean wave
generator, minaturize it, put it on your belt, walk around
with it and generate enough electricity to power your
wearable computing.
(?) Gyro-gen
http://www-csgc.ucs...ATION/Isaacs04.html
[JesusHChrist, Apr 07 2005, last modified Apr 15 2005]
The real thing, well sort of...
http://www.newscien...rticle.ns?id=dn7970
[gardenoed, Sep 09 2005]
[link]
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What keeps the gyros spinning? Sounds suspiciously like perpetual motion...
><///º> |
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I've got to pluss this for non-linear thinking. |
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//what keeps the gyros spinning?// - The little propellor on top of your beanie hat of course. |
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Precession is the term you're looking for to describe that difference between your motion and the gyro's motion (well, close enough). |
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I probably don't understand the idea, but I'm not seeing it as a perpetual motion scheme since additional energy is added to the system by the motion of the human body. |
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I don't see how magnets inside and outside the gyro can generate electricity or keep the gyro spinning. I don't get how the generator would be wired in or where the generator would get its input energy. I'll have to go way out on a limb and say it won't work, perpertual motion scheme or not. |
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Ah, very good point, [half], my mfd is deleted. |
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JesusH - when you say that the gyro
wants to 'stay in one place', do you
mean in one *place* or in one
*orientation*? If the former, then you're
just wrong - you can carry a gyro in
any direction you want, as easily as any
non-spinning object. A gyro has no
tendency to resist translational
(sideways, up/down, back/forth)
motion. |
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If you do mean "orientation" then you're
right, and if you tilted or twisted your
body then the gyroscope would resist
this (depending on the direction of the
twise), and the relative motion of the
twisting body and the non-twisting gyro
could, I guess, be used to generate
energy.
But, why not use a pendulum instead?
Damn sight easier, and you don't need
to keep it spinning. There are already
simple devices to extract electrical
energy from various twisting and
bobbing motions, generally using
magnets that swing in and out of coils
as the device is rocked. |
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Simple experiment - put a large flywheel on the spindle of a small DC motor. Spin the flywheel. See how long it spins. Now, connect the motor supply wires together and spin the flywheel. See how much quicker the flywheel slows down. That energy has got to come from somewhere [-] |
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[TolPuddle] You're right, but I think the
idea was that the relevant force was not
between the spinning flywheel and the
gyro cage (as in your example), but
between the gyro cage and something
outside that. In other words, the gyro is
being used to hold the 'core' of the unit
in a fixed orientation whilst the
surrounding magnets attached move
around with the 'wearer'. But in any
case using a gyro to keep the 'core' in
fixed orientation seems silly when a
pendulum or weight-on-a-spring is a
simpler means of capturing kinetic
energy via a generator. |
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[half] I don't have the specifics but things like this exist --
see linked article. |
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[BP] I mean one *orientation*. Three-axis hand gyros
adapt to
your motion and store the energy -- so when you run with
a hand gyro it goes faster and faster. This works even
better if you wrap a hand gyro in high density foam - I'm
pretty sure this is how the gyro in the link works (with
ocean wave motion). For your bodies motion the gyro
would just have to be smaller. Try embedding a gyro in
high density foam and playing around with it -- it's pretty
amazing. |
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I don't know if I'm more upset that I got fishboned or that
someones already making money off the technology. |
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I'm a big proponent of these foam-embedded gyroscopes,
you'll see if you look at some of my other fishboned
gyroscope ideas, and I'm surprised that no one has heard
of them. If you embed a gyroscope in high density,
resilliant foam all the motion
from the outside of the system is translated adaptively to
the motion inside the system and the gyro which has the
ability to store energy gets faster and faster. Its the
same as attaching the gyro to its casing with springs. You
don't
need a spinning gyro either. Just an embedded weight in
foam works to store energy if the density of the foam is
right. The weight gyrates without spinning. |
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[TolpuddleSartre] That experiment proves nothing in this context... the energy source is the human body trying to change the orientation of the gyroscope; a force is exerted by the body on the gyro, and precession leads to the gyro exerting a force on the body. Thus we do have an energy source to run the motor from. Not convinced it would work in reality, but it's possible in theory. [JHC]'s link refers to a working system that produces enough electrical power from waves to run the gyro and produce excess power. |
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[JHC] "so when you run with a hand gyro
it goes faster and faster" no, it doesn't
unless it is changing orientation (ie,
being twisted one way or another). Are
you thinking that the gyro will draw
energy from your linear motion? It will
not - if you carry one whilst zipping
along on roller skates at 50mph it will
do nothing useful.
You will extract some energy from
your various twisty-turny movements,
but not sure this would amount to
much... |
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////what keeps the gyros spinning?//// |
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Battery power, of course. |
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Actually, couldn't the gyros be kept
spinning by means of an electrical
supply provided by nitroglycerine? I
seem to remember reading somewhere
that that would solve all our
problems.... |
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>>What keeps the gyros spinning?
[coprocephalous] [DesertFox] [Basepair] [2frys] [wagster] |
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The wave (in the linked article) exerts a force (torque) on
the buoy. The gyro
resists the torque by exerting a complimentary force on a
crank. The crank connects to a generator creating
electricity. The gyro stores energy from the wave, using
some of it to create spin and some of it to create
electricity. |
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See new link, I found a better article. |
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The device applies gyroscopic precessional torque to
directly convert the periodic kinetic energy of surface
waves (or human gait) into continuous torque that drives a
rotary electric generator. |
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Ah, now I understand the device,
thanks. And I can see that it's a way of
harvesting energy from anything twisty
and torquey (though I wonder if it really
is a lot more efficient than having a
pendulum-type device, as used to
power some remote buoys). But, I did ;
earn something, so thank you!
But, a question. How much
power (in milliwatts) is this device going
to provide while I walk around? Or while
I jog (if that were ever to happen)? |
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The Gyro-gen produces about 3.0 watts, although his goal
is 1,000 watts. For a human gait version you would just
need to produce enough to run wearable computing, I
don't know how many watts that is. But you could put a
body gyro-gen on a long semi-flexible spring and attach it
to your body
(or to
your beenie) to generate more torque as you walked. |
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I need to rewrite this idea, its changed so much, and its
got all these bad annos attached to it because I didn't
know how to say it when I first wrote it down. |
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[JHC] "I don't know how many watts that
is" - well, that was the question. I'm
sure you can get 1000W, or 1MW or
whatever you want if the gyro is big
enough and driven hard enough. But
my question was how much energy can
realistically be extracted from human
gait. It might be 1W or it might be
1milliWatt - this is important!
For the record, a stationary
bicycle coupled to a generator needs a
**LOT** of effort to generate a few tens
of watts. Your gyro generator is going
to be less efficient than this
arrangement, and is relying on
capturing 'incidental' energy from your
movement, so I would guess we are
talking fractions of a watt or less for a
device
that is comfortable to use and wear.
Whenever you're posting an
energy-recovery or energy-generating
scheme, the numbers **are vital**
rather than incidental. For instance, I
can capture energy with a piezoelectric
microphone attached to my sunglasses,
but how much? I could surgically attach
a generator to my eyelid to capture
blink-energy, but how much? Real
numbers, please! |
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See link for a walking generator. |
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Assuming that these gyro generators do work, I've got a good half-baked application. In a windy area, these could be attached to the ends of tree limbs. Energy could be extracted from the swaying motion of the limbs, and your neighbors wouldn't complain about a 12 meter high wind mill in your back yard. |
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