h a l f b a k e r yYeah, I wish it made more sense too.
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Caddis fly larvae live in water, and build tube-like
protective cases. Different species use different
materials
- some use sand, some use pieces of plants, some use
very
small snail shells, etc.
So.
MaxCo. is beginning a program to establish caddis-fly-
based gold panning in some of
the Buchanan estate's
trout
streams.
We begin by seeding a section of stream with gold-plated
nickel particles, approximately sand-grain sized.
A few months later, we trawl the stream with a
powerful
electromagnet. This will recover most of the plated
nickel
particles, but also any caddis fly larvae which have
selected a few of the particles to include in their tubes.
We then autoclave that section of the stream (to
eliminate
all the other caddis fly larvae). The harvested larvae are
allowed to reach maturity, and the adults are released
along that part of the stream.
Year after year we repeat this process, using a
progressively weaker magnet to select for larvae who use
more and more of the gold-plated nickel particles in
their
tubes.
Ultimately, we have a race of caddis flies that uses the
gold-plated particles almost exclusively in building their
tubes. We then release the adults of these larvae along
the full length of the stream.
This breeding population will tirelessly scavenge the
river
bed for minute particles of placer gold, creating millions
of tiny, solid-gold tubes.
Then...ah, hang on, I'm still working on the next bit.
But
finding centimetre-long tubes, each made of a few
hundred milligrams of gold, has got to be easier than
panning. In fact, the population would thrive only in
gold-
rich areas - the presence of the adults would therefore
tell
you where to wade in and start trawling for the larvae.
Deep-sea snail shell
http://www.newscien...r.html#.U6yD_rAU99A
NewScientist [Skewed, Jun 26 2014]
Iron-plated snail
https://www.esa.org.../iron-plated-snail/
esa [Skewed, Jun 26 2014]
Garden Snail
http://en.wikipedia.../wiki/Cornu_aspersa
Wikipedia (scroll down to the short ecology section) [Skewed, Jun 26 2014]
Prior "Art"
https://www.google....AQ&biw=1536&bih=837
[AusCan531, Jun 27 2014]
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We're going to need a bigger...autoclave. |
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Project like that would take time. But if you have those
Immortality Pants working, a perfect hobby! |
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I think Vonnegut had an immortal alien who bred flowers as
a hobby. |
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//But finding centimetre-long tubes, each made of a few hundred milligrams of gold, has got to be easier than panning.// - as you develop the perfect caddis fly, are you not also developing a breeding programme of kingfishers or some similar bird which will selectively seek out gold-coloured caddis fly larvae cases? |
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[hippo], that is probably the best idea I have heard
in the last 30 minutes. |
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I think breeding any species to mind radioactive
material is going to be tricky. I suppose you might
convince gorillas or chimps to be annoyed by it, if
they had suitable detectors; but fish are generally
pretty indifferent to just about everything. |
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I thought Sturton was doing this, back in February? |
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I was trawling through a back catalogue of incredibly inventive, humorous and wonderfully written posts (i.e. mine*) and spotted it... |
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* Don't worry I couldn't even type that with a straight face. |
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Was he? The sly old bugger. I really ought not to let
him use my login details here. |
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I like it, (seems) elegantly doable. |
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You do appear have a thing for insects at the moment though don't you? |
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Could we maybe not bioengineer an animal to lay down other minerals besides calcium (for gold, being not that plentiful, as well as) instead / as well? After all there are snails with metal shells in deep sea vents so there's at least one creature out there that does it, maybe we could find some clues on how to in their genome. |
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No idea how we'd go about that, a research project for you [Max]? |
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If we can suitably modify that into a pigeons DNA so it will lay down any traces of gold from the food it consumes in it's eggshell then we just have to collect the shells after they hatch & burn them on a steel mesh over a drip tray to collect the melted gold. |
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Do it with Geese & you've got the real goose that laid... |
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Of course the (GM) idea was already mooted in a bond film (I think it was?) using coral polyps to filter gold out of see water. |
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//snails with metal shells in deep sea vents//
Linky? I'm intrigued (or possible gullible). |
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//the (GM) idea was already mooted in a bond film
(I think it was?) using coral polyps to filter gold
out of see water// Ditto. |
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//No idea how we'd go about that, a research
project for you [Max]? // It probably wouldn't
be difficult to use directed (ie in vitro) evolution
to modify an existing metal-binding protein to
bind gold. The main problems would be (a)
getting a high enough affinity (as gold ions are
very, very scarce in sea water) and (b) ensuring
that the protein still did whatever it was meant to
do. |
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I can give you links for the snail. |
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But the 'bond' film is a recollection from when I was 8-12. It was really just the idea of coral bred to lay down gold in preference to calcium in it's shell that stuck with me from it & I can't find anything on-line (gold & coral just turns up lots of nail varnish adds). |
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In all honesty it could have been anything bond or saint like from (given the recalled 'look & feel' of the production values etc.) the 60's or 70's. |
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<later edit> The concept of gold deposited in egg shells can be found in some books by Melanie Rawn from 1989 (fantasy granted, they're dragon shells). |
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Ah, we have a more local snail. |
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Apparently the common garden snail deposits heavy metals (such as led) in its shell. |
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Scroll down to the short 'ecology' section in the Wikipedia link. |
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//probably wouldn't be difficult to use directed (ie in vitro) evolution to modify an existing metal-binding protein to bind gold// |
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I'm a bit slow sometimes but it occurs that calcium, is a metal? |
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Yes, it is. But I may be missing your point. |
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So you have an existing metal binding protean (?) in any animal that uses calcium for its skeleton, exoskeleton or shell? |
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More convenient to work with easily available animals than go chasing after exotic deep sea variants. |
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<later edit> Though I presume (?) having examples of ones (to work with) that that bind different / more unusual metals would help identify the relevant processes? |
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I think if you mucked about with the machinery of
[exo]skeletal deposition, you'd have problems. |
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Howevertheless, there are many metals which are
used (and bound) by various proteins, some of
which are non-essential. There's an arthritis drug
based on gold ions, which suggests that some
[human] protein can bind gold - so I'd start with
that and see if it can be evolved to have higher
affinity for gold (and lower affinity for whatever
metal it normally binds). |
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I think you'll find that gold is somewhat different, chemically speaking, to nearly any other heavy metal. Certainly very much different to something as active as Calcium. |
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See [max]'s reference above to gold ions being rather rare in seawater (and certainly even more rare in freshwater). He's making a bold understatement here. I'm not entirely sure you could train anything to be able to "taste" gold in water. Maybe you oculd get it to use visual cues to identify gold. |
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(posted previous before [max]'s latest anno showed up. |
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A protein that binds gold? Really? How does that work, chemically speaking? Is it a physical fit, based on the size of the gold ion, or does the protein actually bond the gold? Surely it would be very susceptible to substitution by, well, nearly anything else in solution? |
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Yup, definite problem if all the cells shared the same mod, but say you mosaicked it in some fashion so only a small % of the cells carried the gold binding gene mod & the rest continued to deposit calcium as normal. |
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//suggests that some [human] protein can bind gold// |
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Well the old rhyme says 'enough gold to....', so (assuming it has a use, isn't just residue from consumed food?) presumably the body has a mechanism to acquire & transport it to where it's needed. |
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//not entirely sure you could train anything to be
able to "taste" gold in water. Maybe you oculd get
it to use visual cues to identify gold.// |
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Yes, the idea was to use visual cues to select gold
flakes or grains. |
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//A protein that binds gold? Really? How does that
work, chemically speaking?// No idea, alas. There
are plenty of proteins that bind various metal ions
(including magnesium, zinc, calcium and many
others) - I presume that it has to do with the size
and charge of the ion. |
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I doubt there's a protein that has evolved
specifically to bind gold ions, but if gold is used in
a drug, it's likely that there's a protein that _can_
bind gold (as well as some other more common
metal). In much the same way, some of the
toxicity of arsenic arises because it binds to
important proteins that have evolved to recognise
other ions. |
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Sorry [Max] I appear to have hijacked your idea / discussion into a completely other course. |
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[LimpNotes] a nice link :) & far more on target relevance wise than mine, another newbie? |
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[pNote] - that is an awesome link. If I could bun
links, I would bun that link. |
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[Skewed] - not at all. Consider it less of a hijacking,
and more of a chauffeuring. |
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Kind of you to see it that way, I'm off now though, it's a little late, & I'm knackered. |
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[pNote] forgot to offer a welcome, so welcome :) |
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