h a l f b a k e r yRenovating the wheel
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I would like a way to force Microsoft Windows to stop whatever it's doing, clean up the file system, and force an immediate no-questions-asked reboot. It's annoying when the system hangs and the mouse still works but the only way to shut down the machine is the Big Red Switch, which will then cause
the system to take forever on next startup with the blue screen saying 'To avoid getting this message in future, select "Shut down" from the start menu', as if if I hadn't wanted to do precisely that.
I would like Ctrl-alt-del-del-del-del-del to validate any disk buffers and then reboot the system, period. Something that ALWAYS works. Note that only pressing DEL five times while HOLDING Ctrl and Alt should trigger this, so it shouldn't occur accidentally when trying to call up a "Close program" dialog. This would only be for when you really wanted to reboot with extreme prejudice.
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This won't help you, but under Linux, if you build your kernel with the "Magic SysRq key" option, there are key sequences you can use to "sync disks" and "reboot immediately". |
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In any case, it's very rare that Windows NT (and especially Windows 2000) will crash such that C-A-D doesn't bring up the system menu. (Unfortunately, "reboot" from that menu isn't as quick as one might hope.) Not only that, but with journalling NTFS, you don't have to wait forever at the blue screen you describe. |
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If you persist in using an MS-DOS-based operating system (Windows 95/98/ME), you get what you deserve... |
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Maybe so, egnor, but a world full of nothing but NT-based machines would be a poor substitute. I've received literally thousands of tech support calls from people who figured that they'd change this setting or delete this file or that since it shouldn't do any harm, and wound up needing a complete reimaging of their drive. |
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Generally, users are phenomenally stupid, and they often get into settings that they shouldn't. Letting them have access to the more crucial settings that are found in NT-based systems is simply asking for disaster. |
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On the other hand, manufacturers *could* use the more powerful policy editors to lock dumb users out of crucial system features such as regedit. |
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Would most manufacturers do this? I think not; they make a lot of after-market dollars for tech support once the original service contract runs out- primarily from morons who after two years of owning a computer still don't know how to right-click or double click. |
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It might be more accurate to say "If you persist in being ignorant enough about computers that you only have the mental agility to use an MS-DOS based operating system, you get what you deserve"...... |
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If anything, NT seems a lot more resistant to a clueless user! What kind of "crucial settings" are you talking about? Are any of them accessible to users who don't have Administrator privileges? |
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It's not like Win95/98/ME will do anything to prevent you from deleting C:\WINDOWS or going hog-wild with REGEDIT, if you're the type to do so. |
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Offtopic: You tech support burnout types need to bear in mind that you've spent most of your time dealing with the small fraction of users who are abysmally incompetent. The majority of competent (or at least reasonable) users never call you, and you never hear about them. It is very dangerous to generalize from an artificially selected sample set, even if it does feel good to look down on most of the world as "phenomenally stupid"! |
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One of the companies I deal with has 2500 lUsers. At least 1750 of them call in regularly, about 100 of those are 'known problems'. Only this last group is 'abysmally incompetent', the rest of them are just "middlin' dumb". |
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I am aware that there are more people out there than I talk to. It's kind of like cops; they deal with the scum, so they develop an impression of the world that may not necessarily be true. But in my experience, the blatantly stupid things that happen are very widespread. |
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Most of the world -IS- phenomenally stupid. There are very few exceptions to this, even outside tech support. |
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StarChaser the Tech Support Tyger. |
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for fucks sake people lighten up
oh yes lets come here to show how superior you are to other people...well you're not you fuckwits ARRRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGH |
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though on the other hand that may be the whole point.......Brag away good people !!!! |
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Slightly extreme there, [kaz]. You kiss your mother with that mouth? |
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We had a guy here who regularly replaced any file which had been altered overnight with his locally-backed-up version, including the newly modified and downloaded tnsnames.ora, which explained why he couldn't see the new Oracle database. Next day he did exactly the same thing. |
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Anything that removes the presumtive control of the OS and puts it back in my hands gets a biscuit. |
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Egnor: No, he`s right. As a programmer i can confirm - most users are pretty stupid. (And i`ve noticed a few `bad-mouth` posts here recently - does the site need a `report this comment` link perhaps?) |
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It's beautiful how subtle "lUser" looks in this font :) |
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kaz kaz kaz, I hope you were merely low on blood sugar |
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this was mightily interesting, thinking of changing my name to luser |
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Then you'd be a po' luser |
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...and [StarChaser] and I would have to break out our LARTs... |
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Assuming there is something to tweak. |
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Ah, I know you can do it, SC. |
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I know I can too, but I don't want you to smack me for it...<grin> Look what happened when I couldn't help the 'bristolz-bristles' thing... |
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yes? pardon? explain to your audience? |
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Hey, people. I haven't heard anything about an OS later that Win2K. What about XP? It's NT-based but designed to be moron-compatible. It's what I have and despite its incredible bloatedness, it works quite well. Just about anything can lock up without taking down the OS, and it doesn't fall apart when I leave it on without rebooting it (my old Win98 box had a maximum life between reboots of one to four hours). |
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Windows FP <Fisher Price>. Everything looks like it should squeak or moo or something when you click on it, and all the corners have been rounded to protect the stupid. They gave me a machine at work to evaluate for support...I told them 'I hate it.'. |
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WinXP = Win2k with a shiny candy coating. |
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Is that it? Is that all XP is? You mean that all those NT folks worked for two years and all they did was dress the UI up? That's amazing. What a phenomenal waste of corporate resource. |
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To be fair, there are a number of important, underlying changes to the OS, but you are essentially correct [Rods Tiger]. |
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.......::::Slightly offsubject:::....... It must be comforting for the 'technologically inept' of this world (slagged off by some of the posts in this thread) who possess a vast array of *social skills* (or perhaps I should say *50c|^l s<|llz* just so as certain people reading this can understand it) to use said skills for playful and rewarding interplay with others of the species in a wide array of situations and intercourse as opposed to those people who think nothing of spending most of their waking hours in front of a display of some description compiling useless sh*te of some kind and who find interaction with anything other than items which are mains or battery powered a trifie, how can I put it, challenging. Oh and BTW, if it wasn't for the technological inept, *some* (I said *some* not *all*) BOFHs would not be gainfully employed. Flame away, dear fellows.... |
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[Starmanz] As you're new, I'll go lightly on the troll. The HalfBakery is not a chat room and trolls are very much frowned upon. |
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There *are* BOFHs. There *are* stupid users. Both are extreme generalizations. Intelligent people know this. Intelligent people tend to be neither. It was a joke. It is a joke. Get over it. |
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what's a BOFH?
Starmanz, if you wanted to find non-techies on this site, why are you reading an idea in the computer category? I hesitate to ask, but nevertheless, why?
I'm sure that somehow, you could describe yourself, if only facetiously, as an [insert-occupation-or-hobby-here]-nerd. I'm a geology-nerd, a cello-and-piano-nerd, a student-politics-nerd and a lefty-newspaper-nerd. Nerdism should be embraced, not used as an evil tool for social exclusion. Come on, show your colours - where lies your nerdism? or are you ept at nothing?
[[[linguistics nerds - is 'ept' the opposite of 'inept'? Help me out here!]]] |
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Yet another n00bs first post as 'you all suck'. Well done, ye who embody the meaning of the name 'luser'. |
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if it is not the opposite, lewisgirl, it should be |
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[lewisgirl] Bastard Operator From Hell. Generally describes someone with so much computer knowledge they can't be bothered to share it. The arch-nemesis of the BOFH is the luser. A Google search will give you the complete background if you like (it's pretty funny). |
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How's the school work going? |
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lewisgirl, [[[linguistics nerds - is 'ept' the opposite of 'inept'? Help me out here!]]] |
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I was talking about early pregnancy testing nerdism, [foolish] |
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As a video-store-working-movie-watching-nerd, I know that there are a LOT of dumb people out there. In december our chain of video stores had this offer: you could pay 100 guilders and get one hundred euros worth of video rental. To translate: this means that your deposit of about 50 bucks is more than doubled. |
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So this one guy comes up to the counter and goes: okay, suppose I pay you guys the 100 guilders. So we reply, shoot. At which he proceeds to ask if he is to collect the 100 euros from the bank. |
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I can't think of any more examples right now. Anyone who's ever had to work with many people will know that there are many many people out there with very stupid questions. |
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And those are only the ones you deal with in public, let alone the ones that post on every computer-related message board they can find and start flaming just because it's computer-related. |
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[oops had to fix a spelling mistake there] |
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<offtopic> apparently Ebay is selling presentation packs of 10 of the irish edition of the euro... for about the equivalent of fifteen UK pounds. (I can't remember the exact numbers but whatever it is it's something like an 80% profit) </offtopic> |
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Back towards topic, if only briefly; the IT guys here reckon Windows XP is, and I quote, "The dog's bollocks", ie extremely good indeed: very stable (which is their main concern), straightforward to install (concern no. 2). |
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<off-topic>Ah, how sweet, we got an idealistic little newby. We'll soon waylay him with our inane ramblings.</off-topic> |
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But surely anyway, no matter how clever your reset thing is, you're still likely to be left with files dangling half-written, databases in inconsistent states, applications halfway through modifying the registry/set-up files, etc. Most of these are issues for applications rather than the OS. And to give MS credit, most of their applications recover pretty well after system crashes (mmm, interesting, that). |
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And if the crash is due to the system running out of resources of one kind or another, or an OS bug over-writing some important part of memory (or due to some application screwing up hardware) it may not be possible to do a smooth shut-down. Personally, I've seldom had problems with using the big red switch. For preference, wait until the hard disk active light is off. |
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From the halfbakery help page: |
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<< Ideas are best if they're possible, or impossible in interesting ways. Obvious contradictions meant as a joke - e.g., "dehydrated water" - grow old quickly, and so do "magic wand" ideas that are blanket solutions for some well known problem without any functional link to the problem. ("A panic button that fixes my computer".) >> |
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Now, what would be the fun of that? |
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ravenswood: Obviously you aren't familiar with Linux vs BSD flamewars. Now that's vicious. |
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Never had these sorts of problems on my old Amiga. I make no judgements. Merely a comment. |
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Back again... sorry about the inane ramblings of my earlier post - just wanted to get a particular beef about certain adminz off my upper torso. And I'm aware this isn't a chat room but a collection of highly informative missives from equally highly intelligent peeps. Beef over - I shall remain on topics in future. Your indulgence is most appreciated. Thanks [I *love* this site..], oh BTW (back on topic) I vote for a large red reset button every time. |
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Bah...Ctrl-alt-del-del-del-del-del should be a keyboard shortcut to perform a low-level reformat. |
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Quick and easy. And teaches those BOFHs a little more patience... |
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Funny to read this 2 whole operating system editions later. |
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I would personally love to have all of the OS be ROM-resident in some untouchable SD card. Have everything else be on some Chrome browser. But please keep the Java crap to a minimum. |
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