h a l f b a k e r yA dish best served not.
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I was talking to someone at work about the Half Bakery, telling him how funny it could be and some of the diverse areas of study that I'm being introduced to. And I started thinking (unfortunate, really)...
We find a science teacher or just a teacher that covers some science in class for grades
4 - 7 and with Jutta's permission we give the teacher an account. About a month before school lets out for the year the teacher gives the assignment: Come up with a half-baked idea using whatever area of science that was covered this year.
Then for that month the teacher works with the students to help flesh out their ideas. Catches the really impossible ones (bad science), or things that are REALLY baked (televisions), stuff like that. Gets the ideas to an almost or as good as any other idea that gets posted on this site. At the end of the month, say on a Monday, she posts all of their ideas and for one week we do what we always do.
Rules:
For the teacher- 1) all ideas must be prefaced with a "*" to separate the class ideas from the rest of the bakery. This allows those bakers that don't want to waste time (!?) in the project to not read them.
2) End the idea with the students name, cause that would be nice.
3) Moderate the ideas so the students have to really try their best and to prevent the baker's urge to yell 'Bad Science!' or 'Baked." Keep track of comments made by bakers and delete any that are deemed inappropriate.
For the baker: 1) Try to be positive and not so, um, blunt.
2) I am amazed at the amount of knowledge you guys have. Use your knowledge to explain why or why not an idea would work. Give the usual links to relevant sites.
3) No cries of baked, bad science, or redundant. These are kids, after all, and we want to get them excited not tear them down.
4) Most importantly- have fun. Make the same bad jokes and puns you always do. I think the kids would love it.
Exhibit A
http://www.halfbakery.com/user/crash
your honour. [dbmag9, Mar 24 2006]
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Annotation:
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I think your heart is in the right place [NTSS], here’s my positive vote. But I don’t think kids need to be mollycoddled from the halfbakery world. |
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Exhibit A: [crash]. I rest my case, your honour. |
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I think this would be better for schools than for the hb, but a nice idea nonetheless. I think it would be interesting to do as a one off experiment, but whether it ought to be allowed is for others to say. |
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Worthy intentions, but giving this the bone, as it has
criticism of another Baker embedded within body of idea,
whose comments are always dependably astute and
welcome . Advocacy infringement? |
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Even if you disagree with the good doctor [NTSS] (we all do from time to time!), it's a bad idea to bring other bakers into an idea as the votes will start to reflect 'bakery politics rather than your idea. See above. |
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"We don't need no education,
We don't need no idea control,
Teacher, leave the HB alone
Hey! [Spoony], leave [DrC] alone!" |
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I don't see what everyone is getting so bent out of shape about. [DrCurry]'s writing style is frequently blunt and unapologetically so. Admittedly there are numerous such others so the direct reference was unnecessary. |
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This might be interesting, but I can't say I agree with the idea of avoiding criticism. Without pointing out the flaws in ideas, it avoids all tendency towards improvement. |
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Anyway, how do you know that this doesn't already happen? I for one, could very easily be a class of ten year old kids. |
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It gets my vote then! ;o) |
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//I don't see what everyone is getting so bent out of shape about// - Sorry, I'm doing my yoga. |
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No, no, no. I was not trying to insult DrCurry at all. Iwas just ribbing him a little for a comment he made to me the first time I anno'ed. But I was also trying to imply that the guy has a huge amount of knowledge to share and that was the kind of baker I was looking for in doing this project. I meant no disrespect, DrCurry- I sit here in awe sometimes at the technical level these debates can take, with you at the forefront, holding your own. |
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I appoligise for the unintended insult and will remove it right away. |
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Well now you've got a messed up thread of anno's. |
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/I don’t think kids need to be mollycoddled from the halfbakery world/ |
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After after reading [methinsnots] comment last night, I went to bed and didn't get a chance to reply. I think I agree that mollycoddling would be unnecessary. Maybe the teacher can decide how much is needed given the situation. The younger the class, the more that might be needed. But let the bakers do their thing and the teacher can make changes as needed. |
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P.S.- Nice rallying around an insulted baker. Fast, timely, and without hesitation- top notch! Good show of solidarity, my hats off to you all. |
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Edit: /Well now you've got a messed up thread of anno's./- [Skinflaps] |
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Rather that than potentially insult anyone. That's just not my thing, man. Peace. |
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P.S. re. this idea, isn't that what school Science Fairs are all about? |
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/...isn't that what school Science Fairs are all about?/-[DrCurry] |
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Yeah, I guess it is. But I was thinking of giving the kids a chance to get really off the wall (hullaballoon, anyone?), and a way to see how ideas can change through open debate of ideas, with a sense of humor. |
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Another P.S.- For all of you that read this later and have no idea what the hell everyone is talking about- |
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I removed a couple of references I made about [DrCurry] that were taken the wrong way. That's all you need to know. The others involved have all been paid off, or otherwise taken cared of. |
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If this was implemented, the HB would get more kids on holiday who'd join up then there would be an influx of ideas that are already known to exist or WIBNIs. |
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Don't bother saying it, I know... :-) |
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I think it would be a good idea but would like to let you all know that my husband's 5th grade class studies motion and design (tinker toy cars: what makes them go fast? what makes them stable?) and land and water (plastic tub of dirt: when running water moves over soil, what happens? how long does it take mustard seed to sprout?). I think these kids could come up with some ideas and it would be helpful on alot of levels (writing, problem solving, that kind of thing) bu not really feasible. They simply don't get into the science deep enough. |
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That and their parents might be upset if they catch their little angel reading anything about vagina jam. |
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Yes; we need to make it so [benfrost]'s ideas aren't visible to them. |
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[benfrost] is not all sleaze and vaginaesque posts, you know. Example:
//ok then - let's move along the lines of ergonomics suggested in the idea. If you observe cars, design, including most framing devices, the corners are being rounded off. One could suggest this is a trend, but it stands to reason that such things are being objectified and that the picture plane is only square or rectangular for ease of information display - ie a cell phone which must show maximum info and anything other than right angles would mean a loss of space. This however is substantiated such that the corners of the cell phone window are curved also. Why is that? I suggest an ergonomic trend towards objectification in the realm of information. |
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Art however is not essentially about information display and how much you can fit in a window. |
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My general observation here is that it is taken for granted that a painting is to follow the given rules of square or rectangle. Any artist following these parameters should be able to explain why they use them - but I bet you 90% wouldn't even question it.//
benfrost, Jul 06 2001 |
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when you say here, you mean oz not hb! |
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[UnaBubba], I understand what you're saying and I can believe you just judging from my own educational experience. I was thinking of this not as a nation-wide program (good lord, the site would be overrun) but as a more selective, limited process. Because this site is a privately owned one, Jutta would have the right to select the teacher that had the attitude and involvement necessary for the idea. |
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It would go like this- there is a half-baker out there that knows a teacher that they think this would work for. S/he shows them the half bakery and explains the concept of the site and the idea. If they like it, then go ahead. If not, then no. I just thought it would be neat to occasionally see what some kids could come up with, given the chance. Sort of a cross between 'Kids say the darnest things' and volunteer work. |
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Firstly, there isn't really any need to have a special thing for this. Simply encourage teachers to get accounts, explain what they're doing on their user pages. They can collate the students' ideas and post them here, then return the comments to the class (minus the innapropriate ones). |
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Secondly, most of the students who would benefit from this can do this by themselves. That's what I did. Have the teacher vaguely mention it, and the sharp ones will remember it and come here. If they don't like it, they can leave. |
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/Firstly, there isn't really any need to have a special thing for this./ -[dbmag9] |
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My whole intention for this idea was to find away for kids to experience the HB under a controlled learning environment. Because of previous postings of having a kids HB were met with at best a lukewarm response- the main complaint being that Jutta would have even more work to do. I thought that perhaps limiting the access to one week, on the same website, with all the ideas having gone through some kind of refining process via a teacher, and some kind of marker to set those ideas from the others would be a reasonable compromise. Jutta would have no additional work to do and the bakers that didn't want to have anything to do with it would know which ones to shy away from. |
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What has surprised me is the kind of odd dichotomy between what some of the response were and the actual actions taken when faced with the situation of annotating an idea of a baker that most knew to be child. |
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/I don’t think kids need to be mollycoddled/ /I can't say I agree with the idea of avoiding criticism./ |
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Yet look at the annos for just about any of [Crash]'s ideas. I love his ideas and am pretty impressed with what he's come up with, but if any of the 'normal' bakers posted some of those ideas they would be shot down in a second. Not for lack of creativity but for magic, or bad science. But we don't expect a young person to know the laws of physics and because we know he's child, we changed our responses to reflect that. Just an interesting (to me, anyway) observation. |
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BTW [dbmag9], congratulations your new found nemesisality. I hope it will a fun and rewarding career for you. |
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And I recommend you embark on it somewhere other than at this site, which, by the way, is for poorly thought-out inventions, not for strangers playacting with each other. (There are lots of chat rooms available that help you do this. You can get bodies and weapons and stuff. It's very exciting.) |
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Seems that the poster is confusing individual comments with group opinions.
That's easy to do when one is new somewhere - from afar, it kind of looks as if everybody's agreeing, when in reality the people who most violently disagree simply have left the conversation. |
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Case in point: me not saying anything about this particular instance of newest-guy-off-the-boat syndrome. |
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Points taken, [jutta]. <mumbles to self> Man, and I was trying so hard not to have that newest-guy-off-the-boat syndrome. <mts> |
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I'm an architecture student, and we frequently have our work reviewed in what are appropriately called 'crits'. These are kind of Real Life Halfbakery discussions, where I present the work I have been slaving over for so many weeks or months to a panel of Critics, and my fellow peers. For twenty minutes or so, they pick holes in every-last-tiny-little-thing, with a Simon Cowel X-factor style turn of phrase. Supposedly I learn from this. Even after all these years of education, it can still be a little soul destroying at times. I don't think I'd want to expose little kids to a similar experience. |
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Presumably the paint's dry by now, though. |
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//site is for poorly thought-out inventions// not so sure
that I agree with you on this being purpose of your site... |
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I think what xenzag means to say is that we don't want to exclude well thought-out inventions (or at least 'well thought-out' in the inventor's own opinion). |
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