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Simply put, a series of government educational films (in the spirit of "The Green Cross Code Man", "Stranger Danger", "Charlie Says", "Get Yourself Seen" and Jimmy Saville's "Play it Safe", in the UK, "Duck and Cover", or "Reefer Madness" in the US, or Bermuda's "Consumer Rights Man") in which youngsters
are warned against the dangers of involvement in the Jihadist movement.
Various interpretations of 'jihad'.
http://www.google.c...fine%3A+jihad&meta=
[angel, Sep 08 2006]
My favourite Jihad
http://en.wikipedia.../wiki/Jihad_Ballout
[calum, Sep 08 2006]
Captain Jihad
http://moniplex.com...ain.php?picture=225
[DrCurry, Sep 09 2006]
Feline jihad?
http://www.timesfre...2F12%26ID%3DAr00701
[Shz, Sep 13 2006]
For zen_tom
http://www.ugo.com/...e2/heromachine2.asp
The Hero Machine. This should probably be a permanent link in the Superheroes section. [DrCurry, Sep 13 2006]
BBC News Story on the UK's shifting 'terror' strategy.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7889631.stm
[zen_tom, Feb 16 2009]
The little girl from Gaza
https://www.youtube...g_1Mv7F9pyc&t=6m26s
see anno [pashute, Oct 02 2014]
And what is your dream?
https://www.youtube...E-vNohfqy0&t=41m10s
translated in anno [pashute, Oct 02 2014]
Captain Jihad: From terrorist to comic book hero
http://www.timesliv...-to-comic-book-hero
I think this is what DrCurry was talking about. [pashute, Oct 02 2014]
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It was just a matter of time. |
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You have earned my bun+ I would however like to take this oppertunity to remind you that the jihad is a holy war set entirely WITHIN the mind of the believer. It is a war on lust and doubt. Those who fight other people and call it jihad are wrong. I wish the media would stop calling it jihad because it isn't and I wish they would stop calling these people muslims because they aren't. |
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Masses of agreement [zeno] - one reason I chose Jihadists, rather than Terrorists or Islamic Fascists etc. was to try and avoid the problems you describe. I'm sure it's some form of cult we're talking about here (who tend to use a particular tactic), it's just a shame we can't decide what to call it. How about Caliphists? |
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And this too is a question that arises from the idea; If the Bomb, Strangers, Road Safety, Swimming and Electricity Substations all warranted public information films, why not this latest issue? |
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Joda? Sounds like a jedi-master who might live among the fjords. |
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+ [zen_tom] & [zeno], Would Mujahideenists work? I wonder what they call themselves? |
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+, so long as it's focused, and done in such a way as not to foster hatred. |
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[Shz] quite right - that would be the most difficult thing. |
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In the UK, soap-operas have in the last few years have taken over many of the roles of the Governmental Film (especially those produced by the BBC) and as such, have tackled topical 'issues' of the day. Except this one. Doesn't anyone else think that's strange? |
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[phlish] Yes, there's a definite danger that it could be done in the way you describe - but I'd want it to be a little more enlightened than that. |
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The fact remains that it's not being done at all at the moment, leaving some people to arrive at the conclusions you've set out. |
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perhaps examples could be given showing the comparitive effectiveness of violent & non-violent movements. |
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I believe movements using violence often end up further away from acheiving their main goal, while non-violent movements often achieve much closer to what they wanted (ex: Ghandi & Desegregation). |
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//perhaps examples could be given showing the comparitive effectiveness of violent & non-violent movements.// I'm not sure that would lead the young to conclude that non-violent protest was the way forward [Zimmy]. They might instead examine history and conclude that the most effective way to cause change is through violence and the most acceptable way to excuse violence is to channel it through nation state representatives and ensure by victory that history looks on in a favourable light.
With regards to the idea itself, I don't think it's necessary. T'would be far more effective to make kids watch the news and draw their own conclusions. The ones that sympathise with the terrorists wouldn't have been swayed by an educational film and the others get the benefit of a broader knowledge of the state of the world as well as an understanding of the Mess on Terror. |
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Unfortunately, in this day and age you will have to be careful which news channel you watch or you'll end up with the same result as a "Evil, bad, towel-headed, Muslims are no good" propaganda film. |
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I'm imagining that a terrorist organisation needs to recruit new members in the same way that a pimp needs to recruit new girls, or a drug dealer needs to recruit new addicts, or cigarette companies need to recruit new smokers. |
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We could argue (but I'd prefer not to, because I'd probably lose) that informational broadcasts fail to stop children smoking, or becoming drug addicts etc - nevertheless these forms of media still exist. |
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If we can, for the sake of argument, assume that they do have a benefit in discouraging drug use, promoting awareness of 'stranger danger' and road safety, then what is it about this specific issue that makes this approach less worthwhile? |
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Children are quite capable of figuring out that it's dangerous to run out in the road, or to take up smoking, or drink or drugs by watching news broadcasts etc, but we still take steps to educate them beyond these media. |
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So why is this any different? |
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Assuming once again, for the sake of argument, that the subject could be dealt with the appropriate level of sensitivity to the issues that [Shz], [phlish], and [NTSS] address - or perhaps, it's this which makes the idea untenable? Is it impossible to approach this subject without a degree of neutrality with regards political and racial issues? |
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I'd say it's the political stuff that's difficult. You could sidestep the racist tag pretty easily by referencing the many incidences of Caucasian driven terrorism (IRA, ETA, Oklohoma) and just making sure that 100% of your footage isn't some Middle Eastern gentleman emptying his Kalashnikov into the sky.
When it comes to the political stuff it would be hard to say anything conclusive. One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter. You could put forth cogent arguments against targeting civilians but beyond that it might get tough. |
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//Children are quite capable of figuring out that it's dangerous to run out in the road, or to take up smoking, or drink or drugs by watching news broadcasts etc, but we still take steps to educate them beyond these media.// |
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I think one of the reasons that these extra steps in education work (again, if they really do) is they are dealing with things and actions that children deal with in everyday life and they are able to relate what they learned in the film to actions they are taking right now. |
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The act of educating the public in the whole "these Muslims are good and these are bad" might be a little too abstract to make much of a difference. It could be done as it is with global warming, recycling, etc. but it takes time and money. Frankly, I'm not sure if the education part is as important as changing the popular opinion toward sympathy, at first. |
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When talking to recent converts to "Green Living" I often find that they have no more understanding of what makes for "thinking globally, acting locally" than they did before they finally got "it" but now they are part of the Green Team. It's better that they are at least willing to make sacrifices but now that their eyes are open the real education can start. |
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Maybe we need to start with basically hiring a media team to improve the image of said Muslims which can have absolutely nothing to do with facts in order to work effectively. Then move in later with true facts when no one is looking. |
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Edit: True facts in the political arena are on a slippery slope as DocBrown says in the previous anno. |
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//I'm not sure if the education part is as important as changing the popular opinion toward symphathy, at first.// |
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People will decide for themselves whether or not to be sympathetic. What they need is information rather than propoganda, hence 'education'. I don't think popular opinion can be changed without it. |
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The best lies are the ones with a grain of truth. I think all you really *need* would be a grain of truth. Too many presidents have won based on nothing more than a grain of truth with a really rocking beat to get the public dancing their way. |
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I'm not saying that we shouldn't use education/ facts. I'm just saying that it isn't really necessary to change public opinion. |
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For the whole public, I agree; For children, educate them. |
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<breaks out singing at the top of lungs>
I believe that children are our future
Teach them well and let them lead the way... |
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<snicker> [NTSS], what'd I just say? - You can't sway public opinion without propoganda; Only children are gullible enough to fall for the truth? </snicker> |
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[Shz] did you just now make that up? |
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Very much. Remember to put it in your memoirs. |
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they removed gullible from the oxford dictionary this year. |
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Well, that's just great. Now [Shz] is going to have to come up with something else. Thanks a lot, po. |
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spoons are not meant to be sharp anyway. ;) |
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[po] the spoons to eat grapefruit are sharp. they have little saw blades at the front. |
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BTW, good debate. I can't take a side. I read and say, yes, no, yes, no, etc. [zen tom] has a good idea, but [phlish] is right about Reefer Madness and that kind of propaganda. Unfortunetly, we live in a world where folks think any opinion that defers from theirs, is wrong and therefore propaganda. |
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//or cigarette companies need to recruit new smokers.\\ so in the future suicide bombs will come come with stickers on them reading: caution, suicide bombs kill. |
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Anyway, I didn't really get the idea it seems. I thought the idea said: Let's take a more adult stand on these issues of terror and such, because what politics and the media are doing now is just lame. |
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I thought it was sarcasm you see? I do not know these movies you mention and I was never made to watch any because I live in the enlightened country you call the Netherlands. |
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I did see one american movie from the late fifties about nuclear war. At first I laughed, then I was sad because it dawned on me they were being serious. |
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Also I saw a parody on this from southpark in which duck and cover was the way to act when lava came out of the vulcano. People got skeletised in one second. |
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So if the idea here is to actually make such a movie, I say no let's not. I firmly believe that most people have an adult objective understanding of the world and the other people. Most especially kids. So movies like this are not needed. |
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The bun stands because of the way [zen_tom] annotated and the overall maturity of the anno's. And perhaps there was a little sarcasm after all? |
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nah, xandram. its the grapefruit that's sharp. |
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[zeno] I think you are rather fortunate to live in the Netherlands and be exempt, so to speak, from all of this. I think I will bun for [zen_tom] annos, too. It's difficult to know what is right or wrong, we can all just do our best. |
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Last time I looked, the Netherlands was no safe haven. |
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//spoons are not meant to be sharp anyway.// |
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Ah. That explains all the cuts in my mouth. Oh well, I may not be the brightest tool in the shed but I knows a good name. I'm keeping it. Now, if you all will excuse me, I'm gonna make like a banana split and leave. |
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[po] I spent several hours searching for a quote that matches what [Shz] said. (Churchill, Twain, Thoreau, etc...) I don't really mind it, I came across quite a few very thought provoking things. |
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From your anno, I assumed that [Shz] parodied a known quote, but I can't figure out what. I still like what he said. |
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(for some reason I suspect it will be from Lao Tzu, - good thing there's no temple here that I belong to. That would be hard to live down - a hundred chuckles on my account, but, better than a frown). |
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Many thanks to all for kind words and remaining calm in light of what could have been a difficult subject. |
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I was thinking along the lines of warning against cultism of all types - where young people of school and university age are targeted for recruitment by older, often charismatic organisers. |
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[zeno] you're not wrong with regards to there being an element of sarcasm - but it's a directionless sarcasm that hasn't quite figured out what it's taking the piss out of and, for want of anything more constructive is making do with the absurdity of the situation. |
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[Zimmy], I don't know, but it seems to me that [Shz] made up the quote "You can't sway public opinion without propaganda; Only children are gullible enough to fall for the truth?" I'm not sure I'm 100% clear on exactly what it means, but it certainly has a certain je ne sais quois about it. [po]'s reply about gullible not being in the dictionary is a reference to a little known prank that the people at the Oxford English Dictionary pulled, when they purposely omitted the word 'gullible' from the dictionary. |
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Oh, and [Dr Curry] what's the story behind that wonderful picture? Has Captain Jihad been done here before? |
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"Remember: only you can prevent terrorism." |
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I don't think that this Holy War Danger Film even qualifies as propaganda, even though Jihad is the very essense of propaganda to begin with. I seriously can't imagine how Jihad could be construed as good (unlike Reefer Madness, etc).... [+] |
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see link [The little girl from Gaza]
[7:47] (Kids talking inside the kibbutz shelter)
What's your name? Afnan.
Where are you from? Gaza.
You shoot rockets at us? (Afnan shakes her head in a 'No')
Another girl asks: Is it true that it's winter now in Gaza?
First girl: You shoot rockets at us! (to teacher) Is she
shooting at us? Gaza are shooting at us!
Teacher: Right, but not everybody shoots in Gaza.
Second girl: Right, There are some that are, um...
First girl: Good people.
Second girl: Right.
First girl: No, its just simply because our army shoots at
them, and th... their army shoot's at us... [literally: shoot
on them, shoot on us] Is she going to be
famous?
Teacher: Famous?
Girl: Yes, on the Kibbutz TV? |
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see link [And what is your dream] |
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Israeli Zvi Yehezkeli posing as an Arab reporter 'from
Palestine', talking to a good boy who keeps away from
the gangs in Rozengarden, Sweden, and his mother. The
family are Iraqi refugees. |
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Your dream, what is your dream?
-That's embarrassing [awkward]
What?
-An embarrassing question. The truth is I wish to 'die for
Jihad' [become a Jihadi fighter].
huh?
-Die for Jihad!
Really?!
-Really.
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Mother: Jihad where?
-Jihad at...
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Mother: No, because then truly your life will be in danger...
Jihad, for what?
-[revenge] For all our uncles [i.e. family] |
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Mother: It was their fate. No. It is a mistaken thought.
-Really, everyone has his own thoughts.
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Mother: No. You must look forward. At your future. Yes it is
true that it hurts. Maybe you lost some dear people, me
too. I feel when talking with you that you have lost people
dear to you. But that is what the Lord wished. That is our
fate, we went through sword [war], but we are not told [not
supposed] to do things that are worse. No. One should think
of
better things and move forward. Aha [yep].
(Brother smiles at his sadly mistaken mother)
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...
OK.
Mother: Thank God, Thank God, may you be blessed. |
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This is probably more relevant today than ever - I might
perhaps increase the
range to include other culty-type things that exist out
there. |
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CAPTAIN PLANET HE'S A HERO, GONNA TAKE POLLUTION
DOWN TO ZERO... |
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Sooo... what would the captain Jihad be? Going by the
same
flow. |
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CAPTAIN JIHAD HE'S A HERO, GONNA TAKE AMERICA DOWN
TO ZERO. |
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Couldn't think of a flow that best matches what this idea
wants lol |
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