h a l f b a k e r yPoof of concept
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Hello, I was looking at my fireplace, thinking, how I heat
my water with 100l electric water heater and an idea came
to my mind: we could put some copper pipe ("coil") on the
flue pipe and connect it to water heater. The main
problem is that I live in a flat and there would be too much
pipe
to lay, break walls, etc and also water heater has no
separate connection for heating. My flat layout is like this:
there is bathroom with el.water heater and cold water
mains, then there is sleeping room next to it and next to
sleeping room is kitchen, pipes are laid somewhere in the
floor and come under the sink, next to kitchen is living
room with fireplace. So here is a simplier idea: 4m from
fireplace there is a kitchen sink. We connect the coil to hot
and cold water pipes under the sink, replace one one way
valve before the heater (it is further in the bathroom) from
directly under heater to the place before pipe splits
between heater and plumbing (so that the water wont run
back from heater to mains but can go over cold water line
from heater), we put another one way valve before the
cold part of the coil (so that the hot water wont run into
cold one). Also we may need some small circulation pump
to slowly circulate water. So, when the pump is on and
fireplace is burning, cold water would be sucked from
water heater via cold water pipe (that goes from bathroom
to kitchen sink), brought into the coil via the pipe from
cold water connection under the sink, heated there and
return back to the water heater via hot water pipe (coil's
hot part connecting to it under the sink). What do you
think?
DEFRA list of not-exactly coal products
https://smokecontro...php?country=england
[not_morrison_rm, Jan 02 2017]
Ondol
https://permies.com...be/korean-ondol.jpg
[not_morrison_rm, Jan 03 2017]
Scheme
https://drive.googl...3c/view?usp=sharing
Scheme of the idea [dreamtechnics, Jan 03 2017]
Wetbacks
https://www.google....Ov9YSB0_WI8#imgrc=_
Various diagrams of wet-back plumbing (I'm not enough of a plumber to pick just one decent image...) [neutrinos_shadow, Jan 03 2017]
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Annotation:
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Totally baked and widely known to exist in the UK and
Ireland. I grew up with a domestic coal fire that heated all
of our water via what was called a back boiler. Many houses
still have them, though no one burns coal anymore as it's
illegal on account of anti-pollution laws. |
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Welcome back [dt]. We were wondering where you'd got to, and we hope you have a good explanation. |
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I can't comment on the plumbing, but you seem to be decribing a back-boiler. |
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Also many woodfired stoves (Aga, etc) come with optional
backboilers to heat your water while you're cooking
meals/heating the kitchen.. |
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//though no one burns coal anymore as it's illegal on account of anti-pollution laws. |
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It is? After a quick peek, you're right, but there are loads of not-exactly coal but coke or something else on the market. See list. |
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It depends on the locality - almost all smoke control zones are in urban areas, typically inhabited by less prosperous citizens, and therefore unimportant. |
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Should such a zone interfere with the enjoyment of a blazing open fire in a Baronial hall, the usual recourse is to buy some local councillors (they're surprisingly cheap) and get the zone changed. |
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The main point is not the coil on the fluestack, but rather
the connection directly to hot and cold water pipes so
circulation would exist between the coil and electric
100liter water heater, eliminating the need of separate
heating circuit. I wanted you to criticise this. |
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Sorry, out of crit, you just can't get the wood. |
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// I wanted you to criticise this. // |
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There's nothing wrong with the idea at all, which is why it and variations on it have been widely used in practice for over 150 years. |
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Hmm, just for a change try the Korean ondol system, one boiler, and pipes built into the floor. Link etc |
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It's fish bone time for this - reason - totally baked and widely used by many millions of people. [-] |
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I dunno, [xen]. I didn't understand the plumbing enough to know it's baked. |
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//I wanted you to criticise this.// Ah, well you've come to the right place. Let's start the ball rolling: paragraph breaks. |
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Always wanted to have a fireplace with a built in water feature. The water is heated up inside the walls of the fireplace, flows out through the floor in the cracks between irregular slate tiles - channels that are deep and thin enough that you don't get your socks wet unless you're really trying - into a gutter along the walls. Thence back to the fireplace to be pumped through again. Make the screen a water curtain and there's a certain amount of fire protection from sparks and cinders, as well. |
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I added a link to the scheme. I drew it in my tablet so sorry
its not artwork:) |
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In your scheme, if the system is left running for a long time, surely all the water gets hot (ie, you will have hot water coming out of your cold tap)? |
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I'm pretty sure the diagram doesn't give the idea justice. You've got (potentially) hot water circulating in the cold water line ? |
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^It's a win-win, you never scald yourself on hot water. |
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