h a l f b a k e r yFlaky rehab
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If there was a nuclear missle attack at 3 in the morning then most people would sleep right through their demise. If we had a system that would phone everyone in the nation at the same time and play a warning message then millions would be saved.
There might already be a system like this in place
that we don't know about. It could be used for tornado warnings and other disasters too.
Emergency Alert System receiver, $56 US
http://www.waovam.com/eas.htm
This receives those modem-like tones on the Emergency Alert broadcasts on USA radio stations, and turns it into a home signal. [krelnik, Oct 04 2004]
ACCOLC
http://www.doh.gov..../refdocs/accolc.doc
Cell overload control [oneoffdave, Oct 04 2004]
[stormo]'s link as a link
http://thomas.loc.g...query/z?c108:S.118:
[krelnik, Oct 04 2004]
ADSL civil defence alert box and app
ADSL_20civil_20defe...t_20box_20and_20app
Could be rolled out to £G systems using IP [8th of 7, Feb 22 2011]
Standardised Disaster Alert Device
Standardised_20Disaster_20Alert_20Device
Another approach [8th of 7, Feb 22 2011]
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Could any nation's telecoms network sustain a simultaneous every-number call? |
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In the UK, British Telecom (to the stunned amazement of 57 milion people) have managed to impement such a system for distributing flood warnings, at the behest of the Environment Agency/National Rivers Authority. I undersatnd that it is acceptably effective. I'm not sure whether it uses a special ring pattern, or tries repeatedly to dial up and give a recorded message. It can be targeted on an area (postcode) basis. |
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In BT's case it delivers a message "Due to excessive use, the phone network is about to - " |
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How would I know it's not a prank call? Wouldn't work. |
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so how much warning do we get? what are we supposed to do? time to make a cup of tea? oh leave me in bed thanks. |
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Every call I make is a disaster. |
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What happened to CD sirens? (for those of you not of the US, or those in the US under about age 50 or so, CD used to mean "Civil Defense") |
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If they want to talk to me, they can damn well put a request in writing. They have my address. |
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I suppose watching children's television is one way of spending your last few minutes on god's earth. |
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// [lurch] I thought I was the only one who remembered that CD meant something besides *compact disk*. // |
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Certificate of Deposit, isn't it? |
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might missle you by a mile |
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But those were just blissmissiles. |
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<Everyone knows you can outrun a nuclear missile if you know that it's coming.>
No, but you can start fucking. |
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The point is that real estate costs fall to where I can afford some. |
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Baked by the Federal Government in the US. The "Emergency Alert System" (formerly the Emergency Broadcast System) uses broadcast radio stations to automatically relay nation emergency signals to the public. You can hear these directly if you are listening to the radio or watching TV, but there are also receivers that are designed to auto-detect the digital portion of the signal (the modem like tones you hear when they do the "this is a test" thing) and alert you to it even if your radio is off. See link. |
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I will admit the idea has some logistical flaws. I'd rather know than not know though. |
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//so how much warning do we get? what are we supposed to do? time to make a cup of tea? oh leave me in bed thanks.// |
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Hopefully 15 or 20 minutes of warning. I think I remember hearing that if the (Former) Soviet Union were to launch an attack, it would take 30 minutes for the ICBMs to begin hitting. |
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// Everyone knows you can outrun a nuclear missile if you know that it's coming.. // |
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I live 7 miles from a major city. I'd like to have a 20 minute heads up on an attack, then maybe i'd be able to get 20 miles away from a major city. |
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We get the BT flood warning here and it keeps trying unitl it gets a real person, not a recording. Then it tells me that my house has been washed away. |
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BT amazed me, today. this morning I had no phone connection. I reported the fault at work and was told to do some DIY tricks to reset it because "it costs £50 call-out charge for an engineer". Tonight I get a very nice BT lady asking if everything was now OK. I take back everything I have ever complained about. |
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krelnik - not baked by EAS, because EAS does not use the existing phone system. |
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Baked by newly proposed legislation to congress:
(link above) |
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"Everyone in the nation or area is phoned with a message during a dire emergency" - yeah, like what? |
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"Duck!" ?
"Kiss your sweet ass goodbye!" ? |
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On a sober note, I will remind you that during the WTC emergency, both the regular and cell phone systems were jammed, rendering the phones all but useless. Oddly enough, Internet messaging worked fine (as some of you may recall). |
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In the UK The Cabinet Office or Police Commander can restrict access to the cell phone system to authorised users in case of emergency [link]. This calling system might mean that ACCOLC is invoked more often. |
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I've just always assumed that in the event of impending nuclear doom, everyone would want to start shagging like crazy before they blow up. Am I wrong? |
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[stormo] Well I meant baked in the sense that the goal had been achieved. Using radio has significant advantages, since the telephone system has large amounts of infrastructure that could already have been destroyed by the very disaster one is warning about. (Note DrCurry's anno). Radio is broadcast simultaneously to everyone, and therefore gets the word out faster---phone calls would take far, far longer. (Especially since no phone system is designed to handle the case of everyone being on the phone at once). |
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Oh, and please use the [link] function for links. |
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"Could any nation's telecoms network sustain a simultaneous every-number call?" |
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Probably not, but the networks could target those who are in immediate danger (closest to the predicted strike zone, terrorist activity, directly in the path of an impending tornado, whatever) and call those numbers first, then call others based on how close they are to the impending emergency |
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Uh, see the second anno, the one directly following the one
you quoted... |
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The major effect of this would be to completely clog the roads so no emergency vehicles can get into the affected area. |
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About the only disasters that last minute warnings are both possible and useful for are tornados (if a storm cellar is available) and tsunami (if last minute is assumed to be at least 20+). The latter is better served by alert sirens since it's limited in area, and likely to need to reach people not by a phone, and the former is very localized. |
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Why isn't there a sort of national (or regional) radio
warning
system, working in a similar way to traffic warnings? My car
radio can be set to turn on (or to interrupt another
programme) with traffic news. It could presumably be
made
with a default setting to turn on to broadcast emergency
warnings. Domestic radios could be made to do the same,
as
long as the system were used only regionally, and only
when
completely necessary. |
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(and, [MechE], I disagree. Flood warnings can be made
hours in advance and allow people to save possessions or
themselves; I imagine similar warnings would work for
forest fires in many cases). |
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I agree hours of warning make sense, minutes do not. This idea strongly implies only minutes. |
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"Could any nation's telecoms network sustain a simultaneous every-number call?" |
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Yes. If it is a same prerecorded warning message to every number from exchange, it should be possible. |
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I dunno. If someone told me I had two minutes before a
tsunami struck, I think I would have time to grab my
mobile phone and run 200 metres, which would put me
signifcantly higher. |
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On the other hand, as I live 60 miles inland, I might ask
first if they had the right number. |
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In fact, I can think of very few disasters where a 2 minute
warning might not considerably increase my chances of
survival. A direct nuclear hit would be one such
exception, but I have a nice hole in the ground which
would probably save me from having my eyeballs
melted if the strike were five miles away. |
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If nothing else, I could go with a glass of wine raised to my
lips. |
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How do you deter your glass-raiser from running away ? |
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We have a policy in the Buchanan lineage - never ask a man
to do something you can't do yourself. |
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This is one of the main reasons why our dairy herd is one of
the few in the country not to use artificial insemination. |
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A two minute warning would be wonderful for earthquakes, but we haven't figured that one out yet. The same applies to many man-made disasters including building collapse. |
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Wildfire and flood are usually both ammenable to much longer advanced warning, and longer warning is required. Ditto hurricane/cyclone/typhoon. |
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Two minute warning would help with flash flood and tornado, but acurately targetting the warning would be difficult (if people were woken up to often when the tornado hits the next county over, they're going to turn off their phone). I'll admit flash flood due to dam breaking or similar is one possible use. |
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Even the 15 minutes that was predicted for a nuclear attack is only going to be useful if you're right on the edge of the attack zone, and any sort of evacuation is likely to turn into instant grid-lock if everyone is warned. |
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// if everyone is warned. // |
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"If". And thus it follows that a system is required that warns only the worthy and the deserving ..... |
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//Even the 15 minutes that was predicted for a nuclear
attack is only going to be useful if you're right on the edge
of the attack zone// |
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Actually, if it's a fission bomb (anyone still use those?), the
kill radius of the blast is going to be a few miles (worry
about fallout another day). I live a couple of miles outside
the nearest targettable city. If we all get a fifteen minute
warning, I'm in my jag and ten miles down a country lane
long before the hordes from the city have even get
outside the ringroad. Even if my nearest neighbour hits
the road first in his tractor and I tailgate him all the way,
the paint on my rear bumper will barely get blistered. |
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[MB] You have a lot better faith in 50 year old Soviet targetting systems than I do. Half the reason for the massive overkill approach was to make sure at least one hit the target. |
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Yeah, I worried about that. |
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I think the West ought to give its most advanced guidance
systems to the Russians, Germans, Iranians, Pakistanis... |
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//We have a policy in the Buchanan lineage - never ask a man
to do something you can't do yourself.// Very wise, the
ancestor, who phrased it "ask a man" rather than "ask
someone." |
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