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Ho hum, after a somewhat unrewarding time on a forum discussion, we got to an interesting bit, the long-term storage of data.
I seem to to remember that hard-drives get zapped by cosmic particles and lose their polarity over the years, dvd's lose the plot a lot quicker, so maybe it would be best to
go back to the old ways and do it ink on parchment, which does seem to last an improbably long time.
The only issue is how to encode the information, as alpha-numeric would be a bit of a poor use of space on the paper/scroll. So maybe a dot pattern which is machine readable like them weird blocky things that mobile phones can read, please excuse my use of these complex technical expressions.
Could be sheets of parchment, or scrolls..maybe best with a header saying "remember the Alexandrian library!!" in large letters.
No, this is nothing like "GPS For The Poor" before someone says it's already been baked, and I'm even voting against my own idea in the spirit of fairness...
corroded paper
http://www.knaw.nl/.../impages/imag1.html
[pocmloc, Dec 19 2009]
Info on archival printer inks
http://bookbindingf...wtopic.php?f=9&t=49
Too much technical background [pocmloc, Dec 19 2009]
Paperbak
http://ollydbg.de/Paperbak/
"If you have a good laser printer with the 600 dpi resolution, you can save up to 500,000 bytes of uncompressed data on the single A4/Letter sheet" [jutta, Dec 19 2009]
The Rosetta Project: Disk
http://www.rosettap...t.org/disk/concept/
Trying to store a very large archive of human language documentation for about 10,000 years - in a way that allows it to be read with minimal technology once it's picked out of the post-nuclear rubble. [jutta, Dec 19 2009]
Time Shards
http://www.fictionw...ebooks/eBook243.htm
A researcher attempts to listen to the voices of people from a thousand years ago by reading grooves on pottery. [ldischler, Dec 19 2009]
Custom echo wall
Custom_20Echo_20Wall
One of my favorites as well. [2 fries shy of a happy meal, Dec 19 2009]
Mythbusters #62: recording on ancient pottery?
http://kwc.org/myth...er_cable_snaps.html
Busted. [jutta, Dec 20 2009]
[link]
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dot-matrix embossing of gold foil would be even more permanent. |
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That is a good idea! Didn't something similar crop up the Cryptonomicon..or have I been drinking heavily again..nurse..nurse! |
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//The only issue is how to encode the information// |
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You may find, upon some further investigation, that parchment is/was rather scarce and falliable, and ergo, not a particularily good source of information storage. You will find, however, lots of codices. Codices are books that have been made from "scrolls", as you call them. But these scrolls were never parchment. They were, in fact, stitched together sheets of goat hide (or any other beasty, the rest of which you had either eaten or converted into a life saving mechanism).When g_d became more important than science, (lots of stuff got lost to prayer books and hymn books) G-ds work was worth more than the fact that a sphere has excactly 2/3 the volume of its circumscribing cylinder. |
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There are a few issues here, least of which is the longevity of the data itself. It is more appropriate to store the over-arching philosophy (how? I don't know). Second is propose the attitude of constant observation. Third is the deciphering of historical data ( with the proviso, that only a certain amount actually survived). Only then does historical data become relevant, or even, significant. |
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My favourite idea on the 'bakery is the storage of information by echo/sound. Discovered by some 'baker on his/her honeymoon IIRC. |
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Great big slabs of granite. |
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Just represent the data numerically, and then find the part
of pi's decimal expansion which matches it. Then all you
need to record is the position in pi at which the data begins. |
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How do you make a reliable record of where in pi to begin?
Well, it's a number, and it is bound to occur at some point in
the decimal expansion of e, so all you need to record.... |
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[4whom], parchment is made from goat hide. Vellum is better quality, made from cow hide, and lasts for many centuries. Papyrus is made from plant stems flattened and layered and is brittle and does not last very well. Paper is made from plant fibres totally unravelled and reconstituted, and can last for no time (if it is wood fibres processed with acid) or centuries (if made from cotton or linen fabric processed mechanically) |
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Also consider the different types of ink - many are water soluble and can wash off. Others are acid and eat the paper away (see link) |
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"Did you really think about this idea ? [ ]" |
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Er, to the utterly tense and rigid academic criteria that most halfbakery ideas seem to represent then, yes. |
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It might be more humane just to insert the information directly into the DNA of the goats, making sure it is passed generation to generation..but I'm sure there's some huge problem in that, even considering the (1950's scientist at home over dinner dialogue) "honey, can you do the dishes?" "In a minute..I'm just reading my goat" situation. Have I inadvertently invented the goat library? |
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//remember the Alexandrian library!!// |
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Yeah, I remember that it burned up. So maybe parchment isn't the best idea. As for printing on a scroll, On The Road was composed that way. |
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"On The Road" yeah, I remember that..
"It'd be a good way of passing classic stories onto your kids." I laughed until I stopped...it's a pity there is no way of direct conversion of irony to electricity, the UK would be a net energy exporter. |
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I have it, a goat reader..using the muscles attached to the hairs in the skin of the goat it would be possible to selectively raise them so as to make a readable display. I suggest shaking hands with the goat to start playback and pulling the right horn for forwards and the left horn to go back to the previous section. |
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As as further amendment it might be possible to splice in the infra-red sensitive pits off a pit viper and so enable tracking of a small, warm object, for example - a mouse, so you also have a wireless mouse option. |
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Obviously with a bit of selective breeding you could interlace black and white hairs to increase the readability (if there is such a word?). |
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Whether it would be possible to watch a film on your goat tends to throw up issues of muscle reaction times, possibly you could get a 3D effect and full colour by splicing in the genes that allows octupi to alter their colour and texture. |
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There's a troll joke in there somewhere, but luckily I can't think of it.. |
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"My favourite idea on the 'bakery is the storage of information by echo/sound. Discovered by some 'baker on his/her honeymoon IIRC." |
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I can't seem to find that on here, but it effectively was the way computers stored info ages ago (cites the Cryptonomicon again) standing waves of mercury in pipes inspired by a church organ. |
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And the idea turned up a long time ago in a SF short story the name of which eludes me. It was sounds captured in pottery, if the potter was using a turntable and thin reed to make a pattern, it might be possible to recreate the original sound from that environment. In the story it was piece of pottery from about 30 A.D., from Jerusalem...the idea was a lot more interesting than the story though. |
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The idea you are looking for is Custom Echo Wall. [link] |
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The other thing about recording voices in pottery was tried on Mythbusters and confirmed as plausible if I remember correctly. |
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"Time Shards" I hope the author mentions the 1950's or 1960's story... |
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Anyway, back at the goats. Obviously these initial transgenic goats ain't gonna be cheap. so a bit of sponsorship might be useful, but how to keep it up to date? |
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Now, trying not to overload the entire goat genome, we could splice in either the magnetic sense of pigeons, or the electrical sense of sharks (up to you). Sponsors could then propagate their goat life-style oriented sponsorship messages by magnetic waves, (or boring old radio) and it would interrupt the show of information..oh no I have inadvertently invented goatTV ® |
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And for colder weather, you could get some kind of natty coat for them, maybe designed by Jean-Paul Goat-ier |
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The goat gatsby
Goat expectations |
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// the UK would be a net energy exporter. // |
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Technically, yes, but it would be England that was the true source and fountainhead. The Lesser Races (i.e. Celts) lack the intellectual agility for such endeavours. |
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// readability (if there is such a word?). // |
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// genes that allows octupi to alter their colour and texture // |
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// There's a troll joke in there somewhere, but luckily I can't think of it.. // |
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We'll cross that bridge when we come to it. |
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// the electrical sense of sharks // |
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Ah, transmits information via the pattern of scars on what's left of your legs ? |
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// do it ink on parchment//
This is good thing, in that it will also rid the world of all those farting cows [+] |
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"Technically, yes, but it would be England that was the true source and fountainhead. The Lesser Races (i.e. Celts) lack the intellectual agility for such endeavours." |
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Ahem..this might the time for me to point out that I am half Scottish. However, I have never worked out which half it is, I prefer to think it's striped, like a RAID hard-drive assembly? |
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Actually getting back on the topic (why start now I hear you ask?) yep, granite has something going for it, but not portability. Gold leaf also has its good points, but too tempting to the light fingered. So, I opted for parchment as it's light and no bugger is going to want to steal it, probably not even that tasty. |
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I also did consider setting up the printing plant in Israel, perhaps by the Dead Sea, with a sadly predictable company name. I thought of nearby Sediom as well, but that'd be a pain in the butt. |
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// The other thing about recording voices in pottery was tried on Mythbusters
// and confirmed as plausible if I remember correctly. |
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Actually, it was busted. This is a common mistake - people have a difficult time remembering negatives. A brief web search to confirm unusual positive claims would be a good habit to get into. |
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Still working on the analogue to a Wii controller ( thought that was a nappy) probably best a dwarf elephant, they can rapidly change the temperature of their ears...put in a gene hack to connect that to their vestibular system and you get an accelerometer. |
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Why do I get the feeling I'm creeping towards to the top of the RSPCA's "most wanted" list? |
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Maybe, but come up with a couple of solid anti-cat ideas and you are assured croissants from us ... |
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