h a l f b a k e r yCogito, ergo sumthin'
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The problem is worse than that. If the sound stopped during
the inter-beep silence, does that mean that it stopped after
the previous beep, or before the next one? |
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Yes indeed - that sounds like exactly the question I asked in the third sentence of the idea text. |
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Not quite. If it stopped "somewhere between these two", if
could have been after the last beep, or before the next one. |
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Yes, I think that's what I asked ("did it stop at the end of the final beep, or at the conclusion of the period of silence prior to the first absent beep, or somewhere between these two?"), or are you questioning whether "between the beeps" should be designated as "after the final beep" or as "before the first missing beep"? - hmm, very deep... |
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Alternately, stopping could be postponed to some
point mid-beep, such that if a beep sounds as though
it's been interrupted, then it has. |
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*Really* annoying beep things should go off on some
kind of exponential distribution where each time-
tick has a probability of emitting a beep, or not
emitting a beep. This way, beeps will be emitted,
but in a non-regular manner - and any haitus in
beeps would not necessarily signal that the beeping
was *ever* going to stop - far more annoying for
anyone listening at 3am. |
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Well, truthfully, and following up on z_t's comment, you still don't know whether the beeping has stopped or not. It could be that there is just an irregularly prolonged gap between beeps. Or it could be that your brain has just tuned out the continuing beeps as irrelevant data. I think, in order to conclusively indicate that the beeping has stopped, there should be an accompanying, very loud announcement at the end of the beeping, to the effect that the beeping has now stopped. Perhaps accompanied by some very bright, flashing lights.
"The beeping has now stopped. The beeping has now stopped..." etc.
Afterthought*. Of course, to avoid replacing one problem with another, the 'Beeping has now stopped" message should be concluded with another announcement to the effect that "This message has now concluded".
*cf: Monty Python's "we apologise for the previous apology". |
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//are you questioning whether "between the beeps" should
be designated as "after the final beep" or as "before the first
missing beep"?// |
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I'm not sure. But I'm certainly questioning whether I should
be questioning whether "between the beeps" should be
designated as "after the final beep" or as "before the first
missing beep"? |
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//"we apologise for the previous apology"// "I NEVER
apologize. I'm sorry, but that's just the way I am." (Homer
Simpson) |
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// an irregularly prolonged gap between beeps // |
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This poses a kind of inverse Zeno's paradox for beeping noises. If even one annoying beeping noise is susceptible to irregular gaps before returning full-force, how can we be sure they are they not all susceptible? And by extrapolation, does anything annoying ever truly end? |
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Another way of putting it might be to say that in a "parallel universes" model, even if your annoying beeping noise is temporarily paused in your universe, it carries on beeping annoyingly in another universe. |
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The discussion so far completely fails to address in a mathematically rigorous way the two fundamental aspects of the beep; the Heisenbergian uncertainty, and the Discontinuity (expressed through the Heaviside Step Function). |
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Now, is anyone brave enough to try to explain to the rest of the class how these two theorems are applicable ? |
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To estimate an exact point of stoppage of a sampling
from a periodic function, you're going to have to
interpolate between periods - which is simple if the
underlying function is smooth and has a period that
is longer (at least by 3?) than the sampling time. |
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But the beep, because it's digital (as displayed by
the Heaviside function) isn't smooth, it isn't
possible to limit the bounds of your estimate.
So a smooth function that's neither
entirely on or off (i.e. that has a degree of
uncertainty as to whether it is on or off) can yield
a clear image of its phase (?) at stoppage time,
while a discrete function that is exactly (and definitely) either
on, or off, can't? |
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You could assume a linear ramp between on-off points, a sigmoid or some skewed or
symmetrical alternate curve - but all that's just magicking up an estimation. The actual
state could be almost any function, with significant bearing on the on/off status at some
mid-beep time-point. |
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Brain's hurting now, so that's probably all I can
manage for now. |
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Well done, [zen]. A very creditable and prescient view. You are awarded a Gold Star on the Class Achievement chart. |
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Here, have this complementary bottle of Brain-hurt Tonic. You can ignore the bit on the label about "EXTERNAL USE ONLY". |
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//try to explain to the rest of the class// I hardly think it
requires any "explanation". |
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We're astonished to hear you think at all ... |
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There is also the global background hum to be
factored in here, plus periods of silence. We now
have the necessary elements of a complex
composition: ie beeps, white noise, hum and
silence. Once volume and interval duration
variations are factored, the resulting work should
be excellent. |
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One solution is to eliminate the heaviside function.
Make the beep a gradual fade-in fade-out. Beeps
that are partially interrupted are the most annoying
of all, like songs that aren't allowed to resolve, or
annotations that are interru |
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Yes, but not not as bad as unopened brackets.) |
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Try setting an Amazon box sideways next to it. |
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Wait, is the goal here to make the beep more
annoying or less? |
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Or perhaps more divisive, like the Brexit of beep
strategies? |
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You mean it goes on forever ? |
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The annoying beep here does not actually have gaps, but kind of goes ee er aa oo aa e ee er aa oo aa e ee er aa oo aa e ee er aa oo aa e ee er aa oo aa e ee er aa oo aa e ee er aa oo aa e ee er aa oo aa e ee er aa oo aa e ee er aa oo aa e ee er aa oo aa e ee er aa oo aa e ee er aa oo aa e ee er aa oo aa e ee er aa oo aa e ee er aa oo aa e ee er aa oo aa e ee er aa oo aa e ee er aa oo aa e ee er aa oo aa e ee er aa oo aa e ee er aa oo aa e but continuously in a gliding kind of way. There is a real problem with this in that this, like that described above with white noise between beeps, is continuous; but that this continuitiy does not prevent ignorance of exactly when it stops. One moment of consciousness it is going er aa oo aa e ee er aa oo aa e ee er aa oo aa e ee er aa oo aa e ee er aa oo aa e ee er aa oo aa e ee er aa oo aa e ee er aa oo aa e ee er aa oo aa e ee er aa oo aa e ee er aa oo aa e ee er aa oo aa e ee er aa oo aa e ee er aa oo aa and the next there is merciful silence. But what point in the cycle of aa oo aa e ee er aa oo aa e ee er aa oo aa e ee er aa oo aa e ee er aa oo aa e ee er aa oo aa e ee er aa oo aa e ee er aa oo aa e ee er aa oo aa e ee er aa oo aa e ee er aa oo aa e ee er aa oo aa e ee er aa oo aa e ee er aa did the sound stop and the silence start? I submit that it is impossible to know. WIthout knowledge, ther is no awareness. Without awareness, there is no subject and no object. There is nothing. |
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// impossible to know. // |
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It is impossible to know all the parameters simultaneously. |
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<Uses laser pointer on head to highlight the word "Heisenbergian" written on whiteboard/> |
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But there is still a valid wave function to collapse. |
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[poc], please report to the dungeon later for your No.5 Correctional Treatment. Feel free to perceive any corporeal discomfort as purely illusory. |
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<Writes "CAUSALITY" on whiteboard/> |
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There is a further issue with the cessation of beeping. |
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You have been hearing ("observing") a series of audio pulses. When these pulses apparently cease, the statement "The beeping has stopped" does not address the full range of possible causes. |
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These include, but are not limited to: |
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1. The stimulus which initiated the emission of the beeps has been removed. |
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2. The stimulus remains, but the mechanism which produces the audio signal is no longer operating. |
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3. The mechanism is operating but you are now in a vacuum through which sound cannot travel. |
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4. Your have gone deaf (inner ear). |
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5. Your inner ear is functional but you have experienced a neurological insult affecting your perception of sound. |
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//It is impossible to know all the parameters
simultaneously. // |
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Ah yes. I'd heard the Borg were still running 2.3.
Admittedly moving to 3.0 needs newer hardware, but some
of it is now turning up on eBay and you can get your foot in
the door quite cheaply. Plus once you upgrade, you'll be
able to use all the compliant apps in native mode instead of
emulating, and the speed will increase. |
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//Writes "CAUSALITY" on whiteboard// Saturday's, 8:25
BBC1, dear. Would you like the Intercalary to remind you? |
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//the full range of possible causes//
Yeah but, like, the beeping's stopped, ennit? |
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None of this explains which came first though? the beep, or the blank? |
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An interesting question, as neither exists without the other.
[8th] Taking scenarios (4) and (5) from your list, I note that periodic beeping is indistinguishable from a continuous sound combined with periodic hearing loss, or silence combined with periodic tinnitus. |
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Regarding 2fries comment, this leads me to wonder if, in fact, the beeping ever really stops at all. Perhaps reality is actually made up entirely of beeps interrupted, occasionally, by annoying periods of silence?
More research is clearly needed & I would like to volunteer hippo for the job of staying awake every night to gather some empirical data on beeps & silences. |
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You could, in theory, create a sort of antimatter beep.
Simply play a continuous sine-wave day in, day out -
eventually, people will stop hearing it. Then, to freak them
out, turn it off for brief, repeated intervals. |
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// 5. Your inner ear is functional but you have experienced a neurological insult
affecting your perception of sound. // |
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// Perhaps reality is actually made up entirely of beeps interrupted, occasionally, by
annoying periods of silence? // |
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Doing a Fourier transform of any sound suggests exactly that, doesn't it? |
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// You could, in theory, create a sort of antimatter beep. Simply play a continuous
sine-wave day in, day out - eventually, people will stop hearing it. Then, to freak them
out, turn it off for brief, repeated intervals. // |
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This reminds me of something from Reddit the other day. The topic of how long it would
take for sound to reach us from the Sun (given an Earth sea level atmosphere in
between) came up, and then somebody posted a writing prompt about what it would be
like if we could hear the Sun, and then the Sun disappeared, but we kept hearing it for
13 years after we stopped receiving light and gravity. The poster correctly predicted
that the prompt would be removed, but it was not removed before getting several
stories posted in response, which dealt with people going crazy due to not hearing the
noise anymore. |
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Can't remember the name of it but there is a sci. fi. short story about inhabitants of a planet with multiple suns so that there is only darkness every several thousand years or so when they all align on on side of the planet. When this happens the stars can be seen for the first time overturning their doctrine and the entire populace loses their minds descending into dark-ages to slowly regain their enlightenment just shortly before the next convergence. |
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([2 fries] - Isaac Asimov, "Nightfall" - see link) |
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