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how much we don't know

 Human atomic elemental weights against modeled molecules
  (-2)
(-2) 		  [vote for,
against]

In theory, every atom in the human body could be accounted for.

Knowing the elemental composition and overall mass gives us amounts of each element. As we work out molecular models of the molecules of in the human body and their amounts, they can be ticked off the elemental stocktake. Crystalline and fabric materials such as bone and cell walls have to be modeled, quantified. Respiratory gases, although transitory should not be too much of a problem.

Gut fauna and biological interlopers would pose big accuracy deficiency. But continual research in these areas will keep supplying data.

If the count is done in a patchwork fashion, the only way it can be done, then areas that are not known, will have big discrepancies between modeled molecular numbers and elements weighed.

Stoichiometry is well and truly an rock solid tool in science but with supercomputer modeling and statistical analysis, can it be taken to a whole new level to show us where the unknowns are hiding.

—wjt, Apr 09 2017

P prime prime https://en.wikipedi...P%E2%80%B2%E2%80%B2
the reference [Ian Tindale] attempted to make, which caused his cephalic and colonic content to blend & vent [lurch, Apr 16 2017]

[link]






       OK, so this is not about quantitative epistemology, but rather about ... um ...   

       Are your bathroom scales broken?
—pertinax, Apr 09 2017
   

       Are you proposing to analyze the chemical composition of the human body solely by measuring its mass to extreme accuracy and precision?
—notexactly, Apr 09 2017
   

       In patchwork, Yes. As a reference for all those molecular pathway models in the computer. Large mass discrepancy = something unknown, something to be investigated.
—wjt, Apr 10 2017
   

       Ultimately all models are collectively communal, or so say the searching equational centric physicists.
—wjt, Apr 10 2017
   

       //something unknown//   

       ... or possibly a doughnut.
—pertinax, Apr 10 2017
   

       It'll be somebody's body but not everybody's body: like the genome project was just really one person's DNA wasn't it? and just a snapshot, I'm pretty sure my the atoms will have mostly moved on down the sewer within a few years and then been picked by an Albanian in a mushroom farm and sold to you wtj. Still, useful information to gather. I'd like to see where I end up
—DDRopDeadly, Apr 13 2017
   

       //the genome project was just really one person's DNA wasn't it? // Actually it wasn't. The first "complete" (except it wasn't, really) human genome reference sequence was an amalgam of cloned fragments from multiple individuals.
—MaxwellBuchanan, Apr 13 2017
   

       Thanks for the correction MB.. I wonder if that amalgam person will ever be born
—DDRopDeadly, Apr 14 2017
   

       Well, one person in 2^30000, roughly, should be that amalgam. Sadly that's -E- on my calculator.
—MaxwellBuchanan, Apr 14 2017
   

       You might like looking at all the chemicals at a spectroscopy plot. The height of each chemical, as well as the area under each chemical's "curve" speak to what you are asking.   

       Also, nuclear magnetic resonance imaging NMR (related to MRI) could be improved to detect more kinds of atoms more effectively.   

       Also, pragmatically, if you are willing to use rats or pigs as model experimental animals their individual organs can be connected to something like a heart-lung pumping and oxygenating and nutrient machine permitting ultra high resolution scanning of something the size of say a heart or a gland or a brain for elemental and molecular composition
—beanangel, Apr 14 2017
   

       /'envelope' or 'convex hull'/ Made up of a collection of areas of focused interest.   

       [Max] Wouldn't the random stuff between genes mess with that calculation?
—wjt, Apr 15 2017
   

       // The 'envelope' or 'convex hull'. That's what that'd be called. //   

       That would hide the valleys in the spectrogram, which are just as important as the peaks.
—notexactly, Apr 15 2017
   

       // 2^30000 //   

       My computer was not willing to calculate that either, but Wolfram|Alpha was:   

       ~7.94*10^9030   

       7 940 903 519 132 960 324 132 517 843 492 702 513 993 728 125 208 692 855 608 343 385 791 937 317 443 908 783 509 203 179 530 892 191 987 155 926 623 978 283 105 489 921 384 424 923 263 573 391 363 734 522 382 231 742 028 063 376 725 759 936 388 639 366 060 309 563 838 895 747 548 705 834 901 470 733 791 335 653 266 902 911 839 098 782 447 109 218 743 196 966 760 157 998 340 228 043 734 553 776 187 051 118 620 709 439 579 947 093 508 401 401 631 712 073 916 879 445 638 849 346 437 187 368 000 288 168 434 884 333 847 925 762 236 847 628 855 418 907 650 698 624 898 277 065 152 326 488 047 315 941 120 701 839 655 677 173 867 549 336 208 651 066 198 963 223 290 589 867 846 485 132 811 671 585 188 249 558 469 966 534 679 356 622 663 014 517 463 255 220 325 474 870 240 326 369 687 171 527 575 053 114 352 298 945 393 524 403 254 488 026 713 532 705 619 878 245 336 270 252 062 774 783 554 202 422 698 010 972 274 190 731 058 780 728 665 028 820 297 377 514 920 071 911 925 316 084 153 056 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413 182 425 009 104 839 730 190 149 937 947 622 089 525 920 708 952 014 849 827 703 025 335 438 184 057 214 637 609 601 759 797 823 298 934 525 394 090 047 984 591 262 655 321 980 211 610 728 487 690 126 512 120 377 208 077 136 664 007 624 578 448 120 627 230 396 424 410 042 374 844 009 670 652 260 318 316 136 052 064 907 073 435 701 629 756 724 920 584 736 158 928 924 278 934 883 719 667 988 746 713 618 906 882 417 265 966 338 374 439 287 540 631 235 652 183 805 585 782 577 155 016 112 920 519 870 327 732 380 836 637 193 766 632 802 136 294 403 009 176 925 679 245 705 047 676 377 488 689 151 940 988 044 538 779 620 569 126 246 914 623 230 622 550 873 833 016 216 386 563 851 328 799 259 238 499 209 999 554 275 144 036 829 640 523 748 021 401 728 023 122 244 307 347 992 671 576 527 851 754 613 176 709 861 868 141 311 926 931 354 304 172 823 126 246 339 384 547 648 330 807 215 813 145 604 886 297 539 405 314 289 438 215 407 049 391 797 179 642 618 840 408 152 005 708 840 007 039 063 560 129 359 925 732 830 917 411 892 757 772 809 818 575 096 784 644 565 715 760 330 894 450 126 391 162 364 208 544 862 724 738 685 623 480 831 213 673 235 809 909 380 477 161 451 584 643 843 568 534 938 096 246 268 595 494 491 365 840 517 011 400 827 280 642 612 038 747 802 019 218 876 411 298 166 730 081 425 354 989 926 655 512 260 424 077 683 575 852 034 407 693 008 704 791 720 595 633 742 513 869 707 262 524 626 017 377 493 164 287 304 819 460 043 078 664 039 641 036 775 279 542 417 209 435 165 675 567 825 046 032 886 316 406 129 631 936 546 931 605 479 637 395 114 227 232 190 652 680 872 356 798 895 146 260 947 715 560 593 392 445 186 984 236 956 570 815 352 503 866 425 684 731 286 029 621 371 987 843 983 873 934 202 001 834 098 493 770 340 755 884 933 421 197 354 319 996 162 927 798 822 953 001 886 866 626 905 634 079 645 276 444 343 953 882 636 459 987 016 836 014 105 836 047 428 179 943 564 602 344 815 587 492 558 221 783 493 716 856 715 822 173 632 068 059 947 551 285 269 563 622 335 522 991 489 745 734 282 255 801 862 901 539 307 877 621 890 762 534 259 395 955 994 265 498 441 398 061 542 138 034 565 251 317 948 280 490 260 333 910 701 284 702 637 378 217 580 300 519 778 821 654 757 373 607 001 758 665 360 274 942 735 667 175 469 786 830 514 617 316 799 788 829 828 488 595 159 136 082 781 420 787 173 940 977 589 036 643 699 445 988 900 111 463 504 091 118 505 957 731 531 122 881 013 656 096 713 848 503 207 213 801 429 450 347 652 261 701 703 797 452 710 816 893 657 403 894 575 437 034 934 309 359 118 706 773 291 294 149 609 820 409 223 114 512 957 520 662 826 447 436 712 867 350 827 763 314 329 955 554 198 056 499 593 324 617 110 997 418 473 591 698 243 750 929 034 579 737 043 373 422 295 332 799 624 460 483 435 014 107 165 058 059 680 662 756 509 294 186 127 896 780 339 588 928 295 545 567 048 648 137 777 388 824 658 242 865 273 549 421 647 865 095 857 398 123 831 625 977 971 274 399 024 570 969 728 319 426 236 983 475 449 696 817 501 513 013 923 092 811 160 488 701 020 981 223 217 638 134 870 238 330 785 987 777 362 107 900 870 220 566 117 625 369 732 484 685 079 573 905 971 412 010 869 204 851 929 675 105 202 526 462 440 450 843 331 477 591 337 504 677 466 560 247 802 932 519 058 064 669 736 932 026 506 218 065 518 053 804 099 470 058 672 554 881 957 334 239 171 945 470 128 328 111 118 154 219 248 709 276 771 964 468 934 141 432 065 279 835 956 804 758 479 020 506 175 634 676 314 795 774 377 756 781 619 147 787 644 127 864 326 395 955 719 541 635 424 625 005 330 931 654 336 931 776 693 662 159 112 848 110 480 538 382 283 610 794 193 466 885 074 933 882 258 128 230 814 880 496 958 689 388 480 616 019 325 410 776 127 163 363 865 400 356 822 111 134 438 394 432 428 391 432 135 839 292 661 553 803 106 862 931 835 006 288 173 627 261 324 100 173 990 865 286 349 533 830 063 091 557 567 956 830 696 284 020 826 665 435 848 602 925 945 339 374 112 474 445 787 390 743 846 224 660 527 423 380 047 536 181 832 382 852 749 004 482 639 132 488 012 423 772 632 872 567 611 837 956 509 727 738 665 319 125 833 435 486 837 183 884 662 511 338 560 958 654 837 653 843 605 981 267 354 569 271 666 682 256 876 436 360 004 085 720 878 438 365 292 520 427 632 066 423 329 003 200 404 292 501 117 164 412 280 016 866 913 720 423 748 205 122 496 830 626 503 634 357 509 731 013 181 992 464 259 628 431 617 164 036 515 488 291 676 782 170 317 826 525 643 681 591 655 990 081 992 152 832 281 532 788 807 385 136 544 281 343 581 225 957 439 747 570 626 419 144 498 020 442 835 012 520 333 597 010 650 792 505 163 588 284 469 813 745 780 712 765 859 388 127 933 246 124 890 834 158 661 340 828 624 389 473 858 924 747 755 262 424 780 692 268 948 813 094 438 604 009 655 040 806 473 697 307 373 869 826 808 819 809 241 641 401 202 736 133 330 433 499 401 052 488 323 809 427 280 113 231 657 969 181 497 898 455 075 395 595 987 717 599 255 810 574 111 896 611 381 295 446 449 094 360 605 719 953 456 587 602 255 949 355 196 532 488 359 097 463 064 531 159 681 099 827 588 754 339 376 178 603 572 206 993 104 116 724 005 865 677 519 296 398 159 948 715 473 178 534 023 839 748 776 968 930 959 359 430 050 467 682 338 953 460 003 719 728 316 579 187 691 878 697 698 768 262 029 532 555 154 453 385 626 292 655 405 747 586 784 964 721 828 435 123 748 874 036 892 336 467 993 833 313 566 351 099 012 062 133 708 330 659 839 945 835 334 408 003 540 883 710 466 685 587 003 017 166 599 283 017 074 947 301 584 414 988 865 004 786 028 293 285 499 770 491 180 405 306 064 801 835 537 732 617 278 174 051 627 839 185 610 787 636 744 236 037 208 733 359 089 934 980 863 639 140 305 262 357 999 304 049 578 253 805 867 435 072 383 872 118 239 392 509 532 576 937 965 747 681 037 411 189 244 456 427 767 218 969 226 659 923 736 338 685 936 365 229 374 852 506 760 977 484 949 718 096 704 779 139 202 025 385 886 007 539 531 005 659 537 317 072 283 913 313 695 763 253 184 409 898 181 120 428 466 758 352 325 450 311 576 982 995 045 335 286 929 880 973 682 790 673 015 037 574 198 678 081 581 095 988 135 833 790 694 215 909
—notexactly, Apr 15 2017
   

       // Wouldn't the random stuff between genes mess with that calculation?// No, it's all just DNA. That's why DNA is so fantastically cool - everything is just a bitstream. When you die of cancer, it's a bitstream. If you have your father's nose or your mother's beard, it's a bitstream. If you're not an elm, it's a bitstream. If you get Ebloa, it's a bitstream. DNA does for biology what computers do for photos, music, 3D models and pornography.
—MaxwellBuchanan, Apr 15 2017
   

       So have I got this right? On the transcripted strand each position has four posibilities so that 4 x 4 x 4 x 4 .. for however many base pairs there are in the Human genome. - the areas that have to be the same to make us human creatures + the available variance of those areas.All summing to 2 ^30000 approx.
—wjt, Apr 15 2017
   

       //So have I got this right?// Not as such, alas. In fact, my 2^30000 was a vague sort of guesstimate, based on the assumption that haplotype blocks (chunks of human DNA that tend to remain intact during recombination across many generations) are about 100kb long, hence 30,000 of them in the genome; and suppose there are a couple of common haplotypes for each one.   

       Then again, I didn't reckon on the fact that humans are mostly diploid, so it's more than that.
—MaxwellBuchanan, Apr 16 2017
   

       [Ian] Do you have an under the sea, Jules Verne-ish problem with your computer?
—wjt, Apr 16 2017
   

       [MaxwellB] Even two individuals with equal zygote DNA could be told apart by their pockets' of mutations as age takes hold on cell divisions. The body can't repair that perfectly, surely.   

       Then again, that is on the otherside of the zygote . My statement is two adult individuals can't have the exactly same makeup of DNA. Too much complexity.
—wjt, Apr 16 2017
   

       I just realized that that great big number I posted the other day is odd, while claiming to be a power of two. It's also only 9029 digits long, not 9031 (according to: echo "[the number]" | sed "s/ //g" | wc). I think I would have noticed if I had dropped two at the end, given that I processed it with Python to add the spaces, and had to adjust my code to get the spaces in the right place relative to the end of the number. Therefore I blame W|A for giving me the wrong answer.
—notexactly, Apr 17 2017
   

       //Even to zygote DNA equals could be told apart by their pockets of mutations as age takes hold on cell divisions. // I have very little idea what that sentence means but, yes. No two cells in your body have the same genome. The next revolution in genomics will appreciate this. The 50%+ of "genetic" disorders which don't appear to be inherited will come down to somatic variation. If you want an independent confirnation of this, I strongly suggest that you ask me again, when sober.   

       //two adult individuals can't have the exactly same makeup of DNA.// Well,yes, although I would subsitute "one" for "two".
—MaxwellBuchanan, Apr 17 2017
   

       A zygote base line DNA reading is almost needed to see changes. That or a multi-point DNA biopsy with a full sequencing.
—wjt, Apr 18 2017
   

       At MaxCo, we are pioneering Whole Body Sequencing. With something like a kilo of DNA to start with, even Nanopore sequencing might give some useful data.
—MaxwellBuchanan, Apr 18 2017
   

       The person gets up and walks away, right?
—wjt, Apr 20 2017
   

       7 940 903 519 132 960 324 132 517 843 492 702 513 993 728 125 208 692 855 608 343 385 791 937 317 443 908 783 509 203 179 530 892 191 987 155 926 623 978 283 105 489 921 384 424 923 263 573 391 363 734 522 382 231 742 028 063 376 725 759 936 388 639 366 060 309 563 838 895 747 548 705 834 901 470 733 791 335 653 266 902 911 839 098 782 447 109 218 743 196 966 760 157 998 340 228 043 734 553 776 187 051 118 620 709 439 579 947 093 508 401 401 631 712 073 916 879 445 638 849 346 437 187 368 000 288 168 434 884 333 847 925 762 236 847 628 855 418 907 650 698 624 898 277 065 152 326 488 047 315 941 120 701 839 655 677 173 867 549 336 208 651 066 198 963 223 290 589 867 846 485 132 811 671 585 188 249 558 469 966 534 679 356 622 663 014 517 463 255 220 325 474 870 240 326 369 687 171 527 575 053 114 352 298 945 393 524 403 254 488 026 713 532 705 619 878 245 336 270 252 062 774 783 554 202 422 698 010 972 274 190 731 058 780 728 665 028 820 297 377 514 920 071 911 925 316 084 153 056 162 480 126 388 256 580 805 608 668 574 098 316 652 608 084 771 381 953 279 181 807 157 124 713 495 613 535 424 964 215 087 630 579 096 416 669 412 630 963 986 266 552 255 718 328 160 093 117 171 637 176 650 461 295 905 567 798 132 566 281 830 354 760 366 845 352 847 955 988 129 319 896 463 854 644 608 371 823 052 534 475 141 787 679 872 786 514 159 114 921 739 708 002 617 255 270 132 388 918 811 410 977 435 895 396 248 451 768 654 187 319 563 238 686 283 969 523 236 598 937 575 074 075 134 832 047 015 519 967 296 117 865 059 672 408 654 143 498 300 165 797 510 261 969 248 336 086 014 507 694 880 004 991 778 986 415 235 204 301 660 350 334 495 307 361 712 887 960 284 632 677 139 787 048 917 393 643 287 459 305 474 248 980 105 673 159 828 131 668 823 017 101 082 986 585 062 392 365 948 205 090 959 113 071 881 041 827 910 955 350 953 704 544 370 610 472 951 070 584 567 122 153 134 386 488 507 931 897 347 896 476 243 074 931 121 650 906 482 288 868 176 150 253 025 211 895 156 520 637 042 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870 774 436 583 319 125 031 316 426 803 072 026 069 142 645 544 005 733 014 128 831 146 765 979 494 598 139 825 459 105 864 907 583 965 881 882 621 065 226 983 702 618 061 228 442 756 431 769 122 964 613 617 375 193 603 363 395 778 677 616 863 258 776 074 909 714 481 159 472 483 656 638 636 883 905 929 561 817 009 023 225 704 494 931 649 580 244 483 067 442 895 448 116 590 200 567 862 439 843 508 757 338 874 305 666 064 020 338 586 615 494 230 869 950 377 610 901 426 952 558 555 290 754 646 731 084 712 315 377 291 685 221 486 683 802 783 173 117 977 276 188 840 040 275 281 110 684 283 769 640 407 214 107 271 547 786 283 887 632 689 107 752 753 390 160 523 083 386 097 747 662 361 270 177 689 418 705 527 656 522 586 458 191 862 673 847 072 061 569 739 104 492 290 520 198 683 038 902 176 982 310 753 849 809 395 320 886 639 517 634 536 158 200 806 471 259 521 049 539 727 943 187 963 197 268 440 224 844 191 407 585 128 461 076 820 807 297 787 167 383 627 575 728 041 411 301 362 585 409 493 415 870 308 423 212 193 521 149 493 260 116 945 970 404 112 377 639 493 777 243 891 271 756 621 388 699 383 660 092 483 378 247 137 837 404 268 181 140 483 370 799 330 162 426 982 827 657 152 251 244 197 941 017 192 462 061 402 979 725 739 794 687 203 586 057 387 049 201 328 340 740 887 613 387 447 373 950 100 364 897 993 316 703 441 609 904 410 822 270 956 774 058 525 196 895 813 450 925 460 655 992 776 458 785 696 356 096 538 719 329 635 647 435 239 637 380 987 498 860 439 974 395 381 303 640 979 706 981 047 664 449 092 837 741 423 437 750 637 398 558 006 767 405 145 577 627 845 832 442 613 424 523 401 175 851 345 000 125 719 849 355 699 508 871 872 809 722 871 771 728 920 574 635 057 754 539 704 808 256 398 258 021 657 181 631 646 653 858 218 142 294 843 188 825 332 270 943 094 773 719 052 109 024 064 741 171 772 477 805 603 508 257 036 674 300 294 772 683 042 759 362 219 623 448 371 538 133 982 379 930 047 191 809 206 227 921 208 700 106 982 255 244 604 098 915 930 509 977 374 486 881 810 265 642 413 314 768 183 921 252 265 575 687 635 855 689 358 364 488 784 569 782 073 768 095 310 083 723 171 411 494 279 585 407 016 158 164 945 621 505 763 617 207 893 409 944 262 618 402 965 931 873 079 670 095 015 733 617 746 877 300 750 509 712 879 507 227 799 458 469 597 736 523 821 060 866 640 083 030 773 506 593 703 498 958 271 459 509 635 430 714 515 996 165 957 316 860 755 452 659 887 380 754 883 726 465 754 562 084 009 757 807 676 742 841 540 915 231 452 746 388 930 155 368 777 969 302 149 196 612 427 015 257 866 224 609 809 635 545 481 432 467 055 079 781 718 688 694 625 568 390 291 242 476 874 334 496 646 167 840 811 344 038 616 912 036 262 677 898 752 353 137 617 932 464 426 938 533 068 149 594 397 330 418 793 795 121 451 178 296 619 780 889 116 946 269 720 756 453 197 797 175 630 467 028 831 811 767 694 924 026 443 309 816 620 034 415 671 299 267 529 082 859 608 565 046 302 314 480 222 041 155 660 138 589 746 509 861 360 513 578 781 207 262 965 589 567 494 651 373 413 182 425 009 104 839 730 190 149 937 947 622 089 525 920 708 952 014 849 827 703 025 335 438 184 057 214 637 609 601 759 797 823 298 934 525 394 090 047 984 591 262 655 321 980 211 610 728 487 690 126 512 120 377 208 077 136 664 007 624 578 448 120 627 230 396 424 410 042 374 844 009 670 652 260 318 316 136 052 064 907 073 435 701 629 756 724 920 584 736 158 928 924 278 934 883 719 667 988 746 713 618 906 882 417 265 966 338 374 439 287 540 631 235 652 183 805 585 782 577 155 016 112 920 519 870 327 732 380 836 637 193 766 632 802 136 294 403 009 176 925 679 245 705 047 676 377 488 689 151 940 988 044 538 779 620 569 126 246 914 623 230 622 550 873 833 016 216 386 563 851 328 799 259 238 499 209 999 554 275 144 036 829 640 523 748 021 401 728 023 122 244 307 347 992 671 576 527 851 754 613 176 709 861 868 141 311 926 931 354 304 172 823 126 246 339 384 547 648 330 807 215 813 145 604 886 297 539 405 314 289 438 215 407 049 391 797 179 642 618 840 408 152 005 708 840 007 039 063 560 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588 754 339 376 178 603 572 206 993 104 116 724 005 865 677 519 296 398 159 948 715 473 178 534 023 839 748 776 968 930 959 359 430 050 467 682 338 953 460 003 719 728 316 579 187 691 878 697 698 768 262 029 532 555 154 453 385 626 292 655 405 747 586 784 964 721 828 435 123 748 874 036 892 336 467 993 833 313 566 351 099 012 062 133 708 330 659 839 945 835 334 408 003 540 883 710 466 685 587 003 017 166 599 283 017 074 947 301 584 414 988 865 004 786 028 293 285 499 770 491 180 405 306 064 801 835 537 732 617 278 174 051 627 839 185 610 787 636 744 236 037 208 733 359 089 934 980 863 639 140 305 262 357 999 304 049 578 253 805 867 435 072 383 872 118 239 392 509 532 576 937 965 747 681 037 411 189 244 456 427 767 218 969 226 659 923 736 338 685 936 365 229 374 852 506 760 977 484 949 718 096 704 779 139 202 025 385 886 007 539 531 005 659 537 317 072 283 913 313 695 763 253 184 409 898 181 120 428 466 758 352 325 450 311 576 982 995 045 335 286 929 880 973 682 790 673 015 037 574 198 678 081 581 095 988 135 833 790 694 215 909   

       You quite sure about that 812?
—not_morrison_rm, Apr 20 2017
   

       Where's Wally without a wally. I was disappointed.
—wjt, Apr 20 2017
   
      
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