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Please Improve: 1. Spelling 2. Punctuation 3. The veil
in front of your contempt. |
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Please improve: 1. Intention 2. Purpose 3. On how you spend your time. |
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bliss its hard to type everything correctly from a
phone while riding a bumpy bus i was happy that i
was able to get the idea posted at all
}the only contempt embodied in my post is for
correct spelling and punctuation{ |
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i was inspired by the idea of "sin taxes" which i
believe are unfair. That said why shouldn't multi-
purpose self destruction tools exist? self
destruction tools exist already - cigarettes,
alcohol, a car that exceeds the speed limit etc..
I am merely suggesting delivery in a format that
has some altruistic properties embodied. |
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I work in alcohol research. Alcohol does very little
to the liver, directly. It messes up the Ca2+
signaling a little, but then it just compensates and
everything is fine. With isolated hepatocytes you
can keep winding up the ethanol until you get
unrealistic levels that wash away the membranes.
Nothing happens. It's a major problem in research.
Yes, cirrhosis is preceded by years of alcohol
abuse, but years of alcohol abuse usually does very
little to the liver. Usually, most get off scot free.
We can't even make a reliable animal model. |
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My pet theory is that major alcoholics don't eat
(thymine deficiency and others attest to that).
They intake all their calories in the form of
ethanol-acetoacetate. Which sort of sneaks into
the Kreb's cycle under the regulatory radar.
Somehow, the liver has to back-convert that to
glucose or the blood will become depleted and the
brain will stop working so well. |
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I think there's a lot of metabolic workload there,
and a short circuit of regulatory systems. Also,
metabolic addiction to acetoacetate in peripheral
tissues. |
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Fascinating … so does the NAD/NADH cycle
preserve its integrity ? What's the tradeoff
between serum glucose and the ethanol-
acetoacetate energy input ? Does it deplete
the glycogen reserve? |
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NADH goes WAY up, it's a problem. Insulin gets
stimulated, so glucose down, Glycogen down. |
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<Stops. Re-reads [8th]'s anno. Scratches head.
Looks funny at [8th].> |
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You think you're the only one with a passing
aquaintance with biochemistry ? We almost
had to work for that Nobel prize, you know. |
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// Insulin gets stimulated, so glucose down,
Glycogen down // |
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Type II diabetes ? Elevated insulin depletes
glycogen ? Elevated NADH, OK … then the
acetaldehyde needs to be processed out …
going to be a net energy defecit, shirley ?
With elevated insulin, serum glucose will
crash unless the patient is insulin-resistant … |
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Yeah. So Type 2 DM is a survival trait / protective
adaptation. Who'da thunk it, eh? |
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A more immediately and universally useful beverage would be packaged in a douchebag or enema bag. |
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The wry attempt at humor would point out that many people deserve to be called the former and many people are full to the point they would benefit from the latter. |
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Branching out, however, there is a long tradition of medicinal teas and infusions being administered by methods other than drinking. I wonder if something like this is already done in those alternative health places. |
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Alcohol feeds pretty much directly into the Kreb's
cycle. Ethanol>(ADH) Acetaldehyde >(ALDH2)
Acetate >(ACSS2). The net result being water, CO2
and lots of NADH. |
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The insulin will depress glucose only until it is
sensed as low. Feedback is everything in biology.
Then you have a demand for glucose. The liver's
job. This is where I* think the problem lies. You
have lots of energy streaming into the liver under
the regulation radar (acetate), then a demand
from the rest of the body for glucose. So you have
acetate arriving, some going into the Kreb's cycle,
and some going to gluconeogenesis via pyruvate. |
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Gluconeogenesis doesn't use NADH though, and
the mitochondria are a bit redundant. A very
dysregulated energy metabolism. |
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*personal hypothesis only |
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Um, I think it's an electrical problem. (Hits with hammer again). Yep. Definitely an electrical problem. |
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// self destruction tools exist already - cigarettes, alcohol, a car that exceeds the speed limit etc.. I am merely suggesting delivery in a format that has some altruistic properties embodied. |
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I bet you're fun at parties. |
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No, he hasn't mentioned home-made pyrotechnics yet. |
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// Gluconeogenesis doesn't use NADH // |
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Er, no, NADH -> NAD is energy-negative, shirley ? Somewhere or other
that's going to deplete glucose. The acetate's produced at the
expense of generating NADH so it's a zero-sum game. |
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<scuttles off to re-read notes> |
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The whole process is definitely not energy
negative.
My personal adipocyte collection will attest. |
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The NADH normally feeds the mitochondria. Which
are the most important thing in the universe apart
from calcium signaling. The problem is that
mitochondria use the NADH when there's an ATP
demand (a calcium signal usually). Here, we're in an
odd situation of having a GLUCOSE demand, an
odd
cart-horse scenario. |
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Also, lots of NADH and no ATP demand is a recipe
for mitochondrial reactive oxygen species. ROS are
the third most important thing behind calcium
signaling and mitochondria. |
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I think another tricky thing about etoh is that, as opposed to larger fats, you can't plug a 2-carbon molecule into gluconeogenesis and make glucose out of it. Folks on ketogenic diets have demand flor glucose two but you can rejigger those larger molecules and make them into glucose - not alcohol. |
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Animals can't make glucose from fatty acids. I'm
buried in Stryer right now trying to work out how the
hell alcoholics generate blood glucose. |
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//So you have acetate arriving, some going into the Kreb's cycle, and some going to gluconeogenesis via pyruvate. Gluconeogenesis doesn't use NADH though, and the mitochondria are a bit redundant. A very dysregulated energy metabolism.// |
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And on the other side of the intellectual spectrum, today I posted an idea to stick balloons together to make a floating Mario. |
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Did I spell intellectual right? It looks wrong for some reason. |
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//how the hell alcoholics generate blood glucose// There'd still be sugar/carbs left over, after the yeast dies from alcohol poisoning: beer and wine aren't particularly diet-friendly. No ? |
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I keep reading the title as "colostomy wine oh". |
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//There'd still be sugar/carbs left over, after the
yeast dies from alcohol poisoning: beer and wine
aren't particularly diet-friendly. No ?// |
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They're not diet friendly, no. My point is that there
are plenty of alcoholics in the world who survive for
extended periods of time, weeks, with no real food
input, just vodka. If there isn't a viable mechanism
for ethanol>glucose then they must derive all their
blood glucose from amino acids stripped from muscle. |
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//I keep reading the title as "colostomy wine oh".// |
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Funny how the eye plays tricks on you when you gloss
over something quickly. I too thought that's what it
said when I first read it but haven't had time to go
back and read what it actually said. |
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