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If block of solid C02 which has a bond length of 1.43Å is wrapped very tightly (within 1.43A) by a crystal lattice of Platinum with a bond length of 1.38 Å, is there enough room for the CO2 to sublimate?
Of course Van der Waal radii are larger than the covalent bond of 1.43A so the platinum container
is choking the movement of the C02. Heating of the C02 crystal will give energy to the molecules but there seems to be no space for the C02 to freely sublime. Though, I can imagine the energy getting high enough to break the platinum cage as the C02 rubs the platinum.
I was just trying to imagine the dry ice space so is most probably bollocks. I suppose I am missing something. Could the CO2 quantum tunnel to the other side, giving enough room to sublime? What, if it was possible to fabricate, would the properties of this block be?
Even so, would not work with ice.
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//is most probably bollocks// Yes, most probably. |
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Assuming that your platinum box is thick-walled enough, I
think you are looking at two possibilities here: |
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Possibility 1: the CO2 gradually warms up, increasing the
pressure in the box until there is an almighty bang. |
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Possibility 2: actually I think there was only one possibility. |
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But there is no room for the pressure to build. The Van der Waal forces are just too close, so the CO2 will just stay solid. The energy would move strait through or it would take more than the supplied environmental amount to allow the solid CO2 to kinetically overcome such a short distance to break the platinum or reasonable boxing atom. |
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The box doesn't need to be super strong just tight, no wriggle room. Sawing is impossible if the saw can't be moved. |
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// Could the CO2 quantum tunnel // |
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No, because quantum tunnelling only works for subatomic particles subject to probabilistic determinism. A CO2 molecule is far too big. |
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I think the platinum box itself will warm up, and in so doing
will transfer some of its warmth to the outermost CO2
molecules. They, in turn, will pass energy on to the inner
CO2 molecules. Etc, etc, bang. |
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It would be interesting to see a water cylinder completely filled to the brim, completely no room for steam to form, welded shut and heated. I wonder how much heat energy it could take compare to one that has room for steam? |
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I think I am confusing a molecule expanding with energy,more vigorous shells and a molecule moving more violently with more energy. |
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//It would be interesting to see a water cylinder completely
filled to the brim, completely no room for steam to form,
welded shut and heated.// |
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I think [8th] is probably the person to ask for a demonstration
of that one. Incidentally, in some mines where regular
explosives can't be used, they instead use sealed, thick-walled
glass tubes full of water, with an internal heating element.
So, that works. |
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CO2 is denser liquid than solid. So, what happens is.... well, nothing really... it melts. |
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True if the molecule shrinks with more energy it's not going to work. I should have worked it out from dry 'ice'. Sorry Google, sorry WolframAlpha. Probably why water and CO2 are used for explosives. |
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But what about a gas that has a solid density more than the liquid. Are there superheated solids? |
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// What, if it was possible to fabricate, would the properties of
this block be? // |
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What sort of property were you hoping it would have? Is
"absurdly expensive exploding brick" not good enough for you?
And would the ideal outcome be some sort of local
thermodynamic paradox? |
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If the latter, then this might be an interesting thought experiment
- but could you clarify what rule you were hoping to break? |
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The thought was </neurons searching for a precis> that there are variations in the way energy flows, hills and plateaus. Is there a blip in the linear melting of a solid. If so are there usable unique quantum or mechanical properties if that system can be slyly generated. |
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A block of pseudo un-meltable ice, trapped for the will of humanity, |
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//A block of pseudo un-meltable ice.../ |
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I was married to her for awhile. It was humanity
that was trapped - not the other way round. |
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If you trapped one atom and tried to superheat it,
what would result? Would the atom split? |
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// I was married to her for awhile. // |
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When, exactly ? That description is unpleasantly familiar ... |
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//If you trapped one atom and tried to superheat it, what
would result? Would the atom split?// Ultimately, yes. In
that sense "heating" is no different from any other form of
energy input, such as hitting it with a hammer. |
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But isn't energy quantized at this level of detail. The wrong energy will just deflect around the target. The atom actually has to accept the right energy and tear itself apart. Trussed up, the atom has less space to be amiable so is a lot less accepting? |
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Hmm. I think there's half a notion here. |
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I believe it's true that atoms can only accept energy of certain
amounts, which is why green things aren't blue or red.
Whether that means you can make an un-heatable thing, I
don't know. I suspect you'll run into one of the laws of
thermodynamics, though. |
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I don't really want to break the laws of thermodynamics, the mess would be excessive factors on our current messes. |
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A new complex colour or even something that will be a room temperature landscape for Coopers pairs would be good. This would be engineering something that nature's environmental combine-ology can't reach. |
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New stuff in the sun's shadow. |
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OK, so you want an atom trap of some kind, which will use
quantum effects to prevent the trapped material from heating
up? And the quantum effects in question would be analogous to
the ones which allow a given atom to absorb only certain visible
wavelengths, reflecting others? I thought those effects only
applied to absorbing energy by moving electrons to more
energetic orbits, whereas I thought you could also heat
something by wobbling entire atoms of it, and I thought quantum
effects didn't do much for you at that scale. Maybe I thought
wrong. |
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<Trying to express concept>The atoms of the packed solid have their motion restricted so any hot atom motion can't work on the electron interactions of the solid form to break them down to a liquid or gas. The electrons and the associated interactions still could be going wild but they just don't have the conditions to melt. Hence super heated. </Trying to express concept> |
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The strange escapology of the electrons, wanting to be free, might have some new and unique quantum properties. |
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Does a solid need 3D space to melt? How much force is needed to hold that solid as temperature changes? |
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//The atoms of the packed solid have their motion
restricted so any hot atom motion can't work on the
electron interactions of the solid form to break them down
to a liquid or gas. The electrons and the associated
interactions still could be going wild but they just don't
have the conditions to melt. Hence super heated.// |
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What you're creating is just a solid with a higher melting
temperature. For example, sodium melts at a low
temperature; if I build a lattice of chloride ions
interspersed with the sodiums, they hold the sodium atoms
still and what you have is salt, with a high melting
temperature. If you heat up the salt, what you get is hot
salt. |
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That would be a homologous mixture rather than a Baked Alaska of frozen chlorine coated with a shell of sodium. Although, there must be some other stable patterns of sodium and chlorine ratios and geometric patterns given the correct engineering environment. A beautiful spatially symmetric flaw inside the salt crystal. |
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What I am imagining is abhorrent to nature because it is an attempt, possibly, at the sharpest environment change possible, something nature can't do but mankind with technology can attempt. |
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//What I am imagining is abhorrent to nature// |
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//What I am imagining is abhorrent to nature because it is
an attempt, possibly, at the sharpest environment change
possible// |
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I still don't get it. You want to put something in a tight-
fitting box and heat it. But when solids get hot, the
individual atoms jiggle in place, even though they're part of
the solid. Putting it in a tight box won't change that. If you
want to stop a single atom jiggling, then you have to put it
in an atom-sized box; but it will still jiggle in the box. And
the atom-sized box will itself jiggle. |
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