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Wind Turbine

 Rather than an inefficient fan/mill.
  (+1, -5)
(+1, -5) 		  [vote for,
against]

Sails - massive - channeling urban relief wind or strong coastal winds into a large pipeline, inside this pipeline are many lightweight turbines - made from compressed foam - arranged in series.

Many small generators will be much more efficient than a few large windmills. Inexpensive to produce, low maintenance and zero pollution.

Even a small breeze will spin the turbines a little bit. and contribute towards the world energy crisis.

—Trodden, Apr 03 2003

Here we go then http://actualtechre...-times-turbine.html
windsock turbines [Trodden, May 26 2008]

[link]






       //Even a small breeze will spin the turbines a little bit. and contribute towards the world energy crisis.//

Ideas like this contribute towards the world education crisis.
Google "wind turbine" to see what you're missing.

[Trodden] Maybe I'm missing something. Are you proposing a new kind wind turbine? If so, what-- smaller with foam blades?

Or are you suggesting sail funnels to create a kind of canyon effect to accelerate wind velocities in a narrow field to drive small-scale versions of existing wind turbines? Or both?
—roby, Apr 03 2003
   

       I think the differences are using many turbines in one tube instead of just one, and using smaller, more-efficient generators.
—galukalock, Apr 03 2003
   

       How are these smaller generators more efficient?
Tube? Is this a giant wind-sock?
—roby, Apr 03 2003
   

       I googled for wind turbine and got nice pictures of big fans, no pipes. Inside my pipe, no energy is lost, all of the wind that pushes down there will be utilised. In those windmill fields, the wind is not used efficiently, it billows around for a bit and then goes away. In a pipeline, you could make it really long and put these smaller turbines in series (one after the other) and use the "same" wind twice.   

       Roby : I am suggesting sails to funnel the wind into pipelines filled with super lightweight turbines. Haven't I already said that.   

       Tom Bomb : can you provide a link to these funnel fans.
—Trodden, Apr 04 2003
   

       [Trodden] I forgot to suggest that you read the words, not just look at the pictures.
//Sails to funnel the wind into pipelines filled with super lightweight turbines...//
Sails don't funnel wind. They direct air flow across their surface areas to create air pressure differentials, captured as force through the mast. Perhaps you're thinking of a sort of a sail-cloth wind funnel--something like a wind sock at airfields, only with a wider opening?
Pipelines? Like big tubes? You want to funnel wind into big pipes and generate electrical energy from the air that flows through these rigid pipes?
And in addition, you suggest that multiple turbines in-line in a pipe will generate even more electriicity?
And you are also proposing a new kind of wind turbine that is lighter and smaller and more efficient than existing turbines?
I'm trying to help you think through and articulate your idea, Trodden. If this is it, you don't have anything--it won't work for a number of reasons. I was only asking questions in the hope you had more to your idea than is apparent here.
—roby, Apr 04 2003
   

       The effect of the tunnel and each forward turbine diminish the wind velocity for each succeeding turbine. The last few turbines would not move at all. For all the equipment used in building this you would have been better off just putting up stand alone turbines.
—maniacr, Apr 04 2003
   

       //revolutionary// True, but FUNNY!
—galukalock, Apr 05 2003
   

       [galuka] revolutionary! heh heh.

[passmore] I suggest some of you read up on wind turbines.
Power from wind turbines comes from torque, not just revolutionary speed. There are many other reasons why small is not more efficient...when it comes to wind generators (added later).
—roby, Apr 05 2003
   

       I dunno about that roby. Every time I think about size and efficiency, I see tiny ants carrying huge leaves straight up a tall tree. We all know that if the task was scaled up to human size, it would be impossible. For that reason, I'm skeptical whenever someone says 'bigger is better'.   

       <science>One can increase the current from any given generator by:   

       1. Increasing the strength of its magnets;   

       2. Increasing the number of coils in the armature;   

       3. Increasing the speed at which said generator is turned.
</science>		   

       I learned that in grade school.
—galukalock, Apr 05 2003
   

       I can't argue with you people. Learn how wind generators work, or not, it's really up to you. The information you need is all readily available from many resources. Hint: it's not between your ears.
This is like convincing the guy with wings strapped to his arms that he can't fly.
—roby, Apr 05 2003
   

       You can argue with me. I just need evidence, that's all. Shouldn't be hard if you really know all that you claim to know.
—galukalock, Apr 05 2003
   

       OK, here's how it works. You flap your arms as fast as you can and jump off of that cliff. Got it?
—roby, Apr 05 2003
   

       That's not evidence.
—galukalock, Apr 05 2003
   

       Well done Trodden.The world will run out of oil in about 40 years, so any ideas for new ways to create energy should be encouraged.
—Pericles, Apr 05 2003
   

       http://earthsci.org/energy/wind/wind.html#The%20Purpose%20of%20Windmill%20Shrouds   

       Would a permanent structure or a specific landscape design improve wind reliability ratings? Maybe a seashell or waterfall effect?   

       Given a constant air flow and direction would a turbineless generator be more efficient? Or the current windmill design or maybe something more like the old waterwheels?   

       Is there a structural way to treat air pressure similar to how a capacitor is used in electronics? This would probably have to be a mix of clean energy types. Maybe using solar electric to aid in a stepping process increasing air pressure in valved chambers. Maybe using natural temperature effects and a valve switch system.
—NetBotics, Aug 16 2003
   

       I am considering opening up a KFC franchise on the other side of this Tunnel/Cone specialising in mechanically recovered seabird nuggets. I assume it is a cone shape as there is no point in making a tunnel unless it tapers. As a bonus why not create the addition of turning the pieces of tunnel into huge kinetic batteries. As the wind blows faster the energy which cannot be released into the grid, accumulates in these big heavy tunnel sections and is stored for periods when the wind ain't blowing. I think I may have a problem with the bearings but putting mechanics aside for a second it may just work while having the added effect of producing less drag on the tube hense improving on the alledged 100% no energy lost frictionless tube. (I suspect it will not actually help to reduce inefficiencies but hopefully it is a negligible effect. I think that these big kinetic batteries probably would not be able to hold the energy for a long enough time but they would not have any problems with the number of discharges and recharges. (don't ask why I don't just bury them in the ground like any sane "mad scientist" would)
—PainOCommonSense, Apr 20 2004
   

       What Trodden seems to have suggested is a long pipe filled with multiple turbines, with a funnel at one end channelling airflow into the pipe.   

       There are current examples of similar designs, the wind tunnel at NASA for example is wind assisted by following a similar funnelled design, but fundamentally that's a powered system. in Trodden's design each turbine will remove energy from the airflow, enough turbines will stall the air causing the pipe to behave as if the far end has been blocked, although this effect can be reduced by increasing the bore of the pipe after each turbine.   

       Funnelled airflow designs are rarely used for power generation because wind-speed generally increases with altitude while this design is only cost effective for ground installations, and also because wind direction frequently changes and this design is more suitable for a fixed orientation.
—darndog, Apr 21 2004
   

       I probably don't want to know what "urban relief wind" is.   

       Also, [Trodden] will be facing severe competition from the major oil companies if he is hoping to "contribute towards the world energy crisis."
—MaxwellBuchanan, May 26 2008
   

       Funnel augmentation and series fans offer no practical benefit, the second paragraph is pure conjecture, and the third is an over-simplification.   

       <Notices 2003 date, realises tirade is (more) pointless>
—Texticle, May 26 2008
   

       Yeah, but [Trodden] just added that pointless link, so he might read your anno. The turbines in the link are designed to keep the different rotors in different airstreams, and to use one generator for all. Thinking that such a design supports this posting is as odd as the idea that a lot of little generators are better than a few big ones. Discussing this IS pointless. (And the idea is pointlessly named.)
—baconbrain, May 26 2008
   

       [Trodden], I can render your very much half-baked idea viable if you agree with this interesting modification:   

       I propose a very long and flexible hollow pole with 3 guywires. Inside it is a specially woven steel rope that would act as a propeller shaft. The steel rope is supported inside the tube by longitudinal array of sleeve bearings extending throughout the pole. An electric generator is centered at the base of the pole with which the lower end of the rope is coupled into. The rope extends far above the top of the hollow steel pole and is subjected to torsion. The torsional direction is such that the helical weave would twist tighter. The extended segment of the rope beyond the top of the pole is arrayed with louvered turbine blades (much like that of Sky Serpent in the link you provided). The rope is held almost vertical by the upward thrust of the sail just above each fan with blades now consequently held nearly parallel to the ground. Each sails, performing much like a kite, direct the horizontal winds downward to the fans and the winds exit below the fans with each sail below form as exit louver at the same time. The reinforced fabric louvers, having spokes with hub bearings fitted in the ropes below the blade hubs, are stacked atop each other much like in a form of large vertical pipeline tapered downstream in teardrop cross section with gaping holes at the fore and aft the wind stream. The topmost blade would act as a fan to lift and try to straighten the rope vertically.   

       The fast spinning blades would ensure a straightening effect on the steel ropes due to gyroscopic effects and bending resistance. The upper tip of the steel rope could be coupled with bearings attached to a helium balloon to ensure vertical position in low winds, and so capture more energy. When the wind is excessive, the rope, together with the louvers, would just slant to limit wind drag and excessive wind energy that might damage the blades; in addition, the vents would be throttled open to prevent ripping of the fabric louvers.   

       One unique advantage to this configuration is that the blades would not dampen each other as they are on different levels in the wind stream. Also, the pole is not necessarily massive and stiff, and therefore much cheaper. Its louvers could easily be dodged by passing migrating birds, preventing bird kills mostly attributed to fast rotor spins. Its slender profile would not be obtrusive to the landscape architecture even in high-rise urban settings.   

       So, [Trodden], this may be enough. Or, just ask me if you need illustration or further clarification.
—rotary, May 27 2008
   

       I need an illustration.
—Texticle, May 27 2008
   

       I need a drink.   

       [rotary]'s "modification" has little to do with the original idea, and has serious issues of its own.
—baconbrain, May 27 2008
   
      
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