h a l f b a k e r yI didn't say you were on to something, I said you were on something.
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Why?
One word psychoanalytical profile test. | |
Take that annoying thing kids do, asking a question then
saying "Why?" to every answer and use it as a quick and
easy patient profile tool that's effective and very easy to
remember.
Dr: "What brings you here today?"
Patient: "Having some issues."
Dr: "Why?"
"Because I can't smoke
a cigar without thinking it's
symbolic
of a penis."
"Why?"
"Because I read a book on Sigmund Freud."
"Why?"
"Because I was deeply depressed about my addiction to
cigars."
"Why"
"You know you're really starting to piss me off by just
saying WHY over and over again."
(Jots down, "Impatient and hostile, gonna make some
money off of this one.") "Why?"
"Because it's just stupid and time wasting! I can do this
myself."
Dr: "Exactly. In fact (hands him a notebook and pen) I
want
you to continue this questioning. Give me 20 "Whys" and
their answers and we'll go over them together."
Patient: "Oh, I get it, this will give a view into my
personality, phobias and reactions to various stress
situations!"
Dr: (looking up from his phone after checking sports
scores)
"Hu? Oh right. Sure, whatever. Take your time."
Twa Corbies
http://www.rampants...blsongs_corbies.htm
[pertinax, Nov 10 2020]
Wikipedia: Five whys
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Five_whys
[jutta, Nov 11 2020]
Ask Mitsuku
https://www.pandorabots.com/mitsuku/
Mitsuku can answer any question [xenzag, Nov 13 2020]
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Annotation:
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"SHUT YOUR FESTERING GOB, YOU TIT! YOUR TYPE MAKES ME PUKE! YOU VACUOUS TOFFEE-NOSED MALODOROUS PERVERT!!!" |
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//Asking "why" is common in some kinds of
psychotherapy but it's sometimes counterproductive.
If asking "why" constantly was a valid therapy
method, any four year old could get a degree and
open their own practice.// |
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Ah, so this wouldn't work as a serious suggestion for a
new method of psychotherapy? Do go on. |
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'Asking "Why psychotherapy ?"' may give you a better overview of anything [kdf] could post here ... |
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Hmm, that’s very interesting kdf, I feel like I could
probably learn a lot from you. On a different
subject, I was just wondering, if Russia attacked
Turkey from the rear, do you think Grease would
help? |
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But seriously, although I was largely kidding about
this idea, come to think of it, maybe just giving
the patient a sheet of 20 or so "Why?"s, starting
with "What's on your mind" and letting them fill it
out might lead to some interesting insights.
Respectfully tell them it's an exercise, that
sometimes it can help the person see into what's
going on, like a diagnostic tool. |
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And I don't care about protocol, this is about new
ideas, not what the eggheads are saying. I also
noticed that there's a lot of people on both sides
of the "why?" tool but nobody suggesting just giving
the person a string of them and just letting them
go nuts. Figuratively speaking. |
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And if the rules say don't do that, you know what
I'm going to say. |
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hmmm, 'why?' is all I've known. It works and might be the only thing which kept my subconscious mind from overwhelming my conscious mind. Seeing madness happen to others made me focus on the 'why' rather than the 'what' when I began going through ocd and tourettes like tics in my teens. |
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Why my mind was doing these things was far more important what was occurring. |
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Once I'd nailed that down, (even if I am wrong, doesn't matter it worked), the tics fell away like the chains they were.
All but one. I relinquished control of that one thing and let 'it' keep it as its own. |
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Me and 'it' are buds now. |
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'It' saves my life over and over again and 'I' acknowledge its existence while trying to learn its language.
Not easy I tells ya.
Hold on a sec... |
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"NURSE! My meds were due at 4:20 and it's now 4:44!" |
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Sorry about that, you modern people don't have any decent apothecaries nowadays.
You should work on that. |
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Giving somebody a sheet that says “how are you
feeling” followed by 20 “Why?”s has been done
before where? Put up the links, name the titles of
the studies of this therapy. Who are the doctors
involved in this exact procedure? If that’s been
done before, and you submit proof, I will say the
following: “Kdf was right.” If you can’t find
anything that attests to this having been done
before, you will say “doctorremulac3 was right.” |
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That’s the bet. Will you take it? Yes or no. |
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*extends hand offering to shake on it* |
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And before you turn down this exciting challenge
consider this: I’ve done zero research, don’t care,
and therefore will continue to do zero research so
you’ve got all the odds going for you here. But will
you win or lose? Gotta play to find out. |
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Isn't this one of the methods* used by Scientology to get 'Clear'? |
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If so, Sgt Teacup wins the bet and the game is
over. He’ll win the coveted “Sgt Teacup was right”
award. You gonna let that happen kdf? Tick tock
kdf, tick tock. |
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I’ll add to the prize. I’ll say “kdf was right and I,
doctorremulac3 was wrong.” |
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Think of it. Pure victory. Uncontested, glorious
victory. |
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And I vow, if I’m wrong, (and keep in mind, I may
well be because I refuse to waste my time on a
web search for such a silly subject) I will honor my
part of the bet. |
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Let us meet as two gladiators, fighting for the
honor, the glory of being able to say “I was right,
and the other guy was wrong.”
(And the crowd yells in unison)
For those about to suffer very mild
embarrassment! We salute you! |
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Then I will hoist the glorious banner of victory. |
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I was right, kdf was wrong. |
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But somehow the victory felt hollow. So much
suffering, so much pain, was it worth it? Is war and
conflict ever worth it? With that the gladiator left
the field of battle, but before he left, he nodded
at his former enemy. A subtle salute? Perhaps. An
acknowledgement of the humanity of his
fallen opponent and former foe? Maybe. We may
never know. And the
sun set on the field of battle, as it had
countless times before. As the warrior walked
away, silhouetted
birds in the trees along his path serenaded the
nightfall, and the
arrival of the peaceful Moon. |
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Did he rob his former enemy's corpse ? Wristwatch, cash, rings, small portable items of value, and an ear* as a souvenir and a trophy. |
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*Carry a box or tin of salt to keep them in. |
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//the birds in the trees serenaded the nightfall// |
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Dang, turned into poetry hour here. |
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Well, cool. My dad used to read me poetry when I
was a kid and I never got it. Maybe I’ll start
reading some on my own. I hear reading can be
good for you, maybe I’ll try it. |
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I used to know someone who did this when I was at school. |
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Whoa, this has been done as a method for troubleshooting
cars by Toyota! (see Jutta's link) |
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This was kind of a joke at first, but I'm thinking that if
you administer this properly, that is, respectfully tell the
patient to fill this out on their own, basically loose the
annoying aspect of ASKING somebody "why?" over an over,
explain that it's a new diagnostic
tool, describe the process then ASK if they'd like to give it
a shot, this may shed some light on issues the patient is
having
without any prompting from the doctor that might skew
the results. For instance if the patient writes run on
sentences when they get excited, this could be a valuable
diagnostic tool, or at least keep them busy while you
check sports scores. |
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This started as a joke but now I'm going to use this as my
thesis for a doctorate in psycholiocycologicology. |
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So, how does this post make you feel ? |
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Mostly with my hands.
Why? |
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//So, how does this post make you feel ?// |
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Like a super genius, like Freud and Einstein
combined only better looking and I’m taller. |
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Well, because my dad was pretty tall. |
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Root cause analysis has been applied to psychology many times. This is not a new idea. |
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We’ve been over this, you’ll have to supply a link
showing that somebody
has proposed giving tha patient a sheet of
“Why?”s. It has been done to analyze problems
with cars but if it’s been done with people there’ll
be documentation. Vague allusions to asking a
sequence of general
questions won’t do. |
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If it's out there, it’ll have lots of
references to it like with the Toyota car analysis
thing, so provide the link and we’ll all know it’s
been done. |
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This is very specific. The direction of the
questioning comes entirely from the patient, that’s
the point. How they react to the blank slate of a
series of repetitive one word questions could
reveal aspects of that person’s psychological
makeup. It's also a bit stressful, try it. Seeing how
a person
reacts to this self imposed stress might be telling.
Do they explore a world where they're asking
themselves what happened before the big bang or
are they ranting about how dad left to get a pack
of cigarettes and never came home? |
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This was a joke, but I think it actually might be
something, so I'll put it this way, please show me
it's been done so I can put this behind me. I don't
want to have
to write a paper on this but if it's really never been
tried I feel like it should be explored. |
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I don't want to write a paper on this, so help me
out. A simple link will put this all to rest. I'm
secretly hoping it has been done at this point. |
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//you’ll have to supply a link showing that somebody has proposed giving tha patient a sheet// |
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Drat! I didn't see that coming! |
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I mean, the obvious response is "Why not?" |
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There is no end to the 'why' game once you start it by the way.
I forgot to mention that earlier. You just come to grips with the fact that you are never going to have all of your questions answered... |
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When it comes to Things That Matter, I tend to go with how I feel. If I feel antsy and anxious when I ponder a topic, I probably need to keep asking Why? If I feel calm, I accept that I've gotten to the bottom of things. |
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I had a conversation today where I tried to explain why I'm hopeful. My interlocutor said "I suppose you're right ..." clearly not QUITE buying it. I explained that to me, it's not even about right or wrong. I can't possibly make an argument for why I shouldn't just top myself. But I also can't possibly make an argument for why I shouldn't be cheery and optimistic and make the best of things. Someone (Jung?) said that the only question that matters is: should I kill myself? Hamlet made a similar point. Having answered "No.", it immediately becomes "Hell no! Whatever this bizarre thing is called life, it's way too interesting to check out prematurely." |
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So ... sometimes the "Why?" questions do indeed bottom out at "Why not?" |
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The loop seems to have three possible exit conditions, namely,
exasperation, creeping existential horror and stepping out for a
nice breath of fresh air. |
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Of course, if you use real recursion, you can blow the stack
before any of these kicks in. |
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//real recursion// Are there other kinds? |
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In many (all?) cases, you can reimplement recursion using
plain old iteration. For example, I once had to redo
quicksort that way, so as not to blow the stack in a vbscript. |
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Of course it's hard not to blow a stack when using vbscript, because it's hard to get a breath of fresh air, because you can't open the Windows, even a little bit. |
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By //real recursion// do you mean mental processes that are in fact recursive (and therefore stack-blowing) but which are not consciously percieved as recursive (and therefore can't be exited from and resolved)? |
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No, I'm starting from the premise that we might want to
speed up this whole process by doing it in software, but, at
the same time, nodding to the fact that humans do have
limited "stack capacity" when trying to remember where
they are in a conversation in which validation relationships
(including, of course, meta-validation relationships)
between different propositions can multiply out of control. |
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Check out "The mirror". It's a software project (in development) by Larken Rose that does something like this*. It's intended to help people to find and resolve contradictions among their own thoughts and values. |
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*Only in the sense that it uses software to ask a series of questions, with the aim of making the process of slowly and painfully working out the surprisingly obvious less painful and less slow. It asks closed, either-or questions, not open-ended ones such as "why?" |
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When I was young, if I ever asked "why", I would be told, "because". |
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Well, that IS the answer to all questions I guess. |
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I'm guessing "because" is some sort of oldyspeak for
"due to the cause", "becoming from that which is the
causation". |
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But I'd have to do a Google search and that's not
gonna happen. |
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If "why?" has become conditioned, to be a defense
mechanism, it's ill advised to confront it. |
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Now, it's more tricky to get to a redirection that hasn't been
conditioned. Meds or a highball can help mitigate the stress
of a confrontation in an unconditioned person, or offering
those can strike directly at the problems of a seasoned
addict. |
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Other useful answers dredged up from my youth include "why not?", "no reason", and "that's for me to know and you to find out". And also the perennial favourite, "dunno". |
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"Excuse me, what was the last question?" |
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And another useful answer: "Zed". |
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