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Tortoises (turtles, if you must) are perhaps
the most aerodynamic of all land-bound
vertebrates. Puzzlingly, though, they are
also amongst the slowest. Hares, in
contrast, are aerodynamically bad (long
legs, floppy ears, whiskers) yet are
paradoxically fast. I propose running
tortoise
v. hare races in wind tunnels, with
an air velocity sufficient to make the
outcome a gambling proposition.
[link]
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don't you think the (hare's)ears help in some way? |
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edited just in case you thought I meant the tortoise's ears. |
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To be honest, I think that the ears are
there mainly for effect, and that hares
are not *really truly* as fast as they
would like us to believe. The ears may
be intended to mimic those thingys (you
know, thingys) which provide a down-
force at the front of formula-1 cars.
Clearly, however, they are too flexible
to be of much use in this capacity. |
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On the tortoises-are-heavy front, I'm
not sure that they're much heavier than
a hare. |
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p.s. - I should clarify that the race is
run *into* the wind. Otherwise it would
be silly. |
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p.p.s. Regarding my profile page, this is
an error. It is actually *I* who have
been partially restored from a cached
copy. |
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You should meet my backup. |
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"Her"?? Blimey - his restoration must
have been more 'partial' than mine. |
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Poor bunny, getting blown around the wind tunnel. Those ears will be like sails. |
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"don't you think the ears help" |
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The ears help the rabbit hear predators. I don't think they help speed. |
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That helps them resist the wind in the wind tunnel. |
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The story is still "The Tortoise and the Hare" for us 'mericans. For the more intelligent and/or grown-up of us, tortoises and turtles are two different types of animals even if the story does work both ways. |
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Wouldn't this be a turtle? I guess
tortoises can swim too, but it'd be less
dramatic than a wind-tunnel. Tortoise
ploughing steadfastly into the wind,
carefully maintaining his angle of attack
to minimise unwanted areodynamic lift
from the top of his curved shell. Hare
battling against the elements, ears
flapping, claws digging in for purchase
to avoid the risk of a catastrophic
rolling event (also known as a
"tumbleweed incident", "blowout" or
"hareball").... |
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Why not just drop them from a height?
(With a soft landing pad of course.) |
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Lacks the thrill of the chase. However,
your suggestion does have its merits -
could one train animals to fall fast? I'm
not sure which would have the
advantage here - the tortoise might
experience significant lateral forces if
falling head-first (curved shell), thereby
swooping off sideways and losing time.
Hang on a bit while I run some tests. |
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Interesting. Dead heat from 6ft;
tortoise wins at 20ft; hare wins (by a
hare's breadth) at 50ft. Now, about this
soft landing pad.... and does anyone
have some Araldite please? |
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secure a rabbit to a tortoise securely with packing tape. find a large snowy hill and push. tortoise hare luge. |
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Benfrost - also an interesting idea, but
in order to make this a competitive
event one would require at least two
tortoises and at least two hares. I was
assuming that most people have, at
most, one of each. When I were a lad,
we were glad to have either. |
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How about "The Porpoise and the Hare" ? |
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*flop flop* Oh Flipper! C'mon, baby, you can do it! Sow that darn hare somethin'! Poppa's got ten big ones riding on this! *flop flop eek* |
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Awww. Now it's getting silly... |
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I remember hearing that the way those cats survive the
fall from apartment buildings is by "flying squirling" the
skin inbetween their 4 splayed legs. This loose skin would
probably also act like a fin a la James Bond's sport coat in
that famous parachutless scene in the beginning of some
movie or other -- if the hare wanted it to. I bet the hare
would end up winning again. Poor hapless turtle. |
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It's a hare, which is different from a
rabbit. And faster than a cat :-) |
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Attendant at Empire State Building: Excuse me sir, where are you going with that tortoise and hare? |
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Man: Umm...to test aerodynamics. |
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[po] Re your initial anno...."He ain't heavy....he's my tortoise..." |
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And I always thought it was Neil Diamond.... |
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[He Ain't Heavy, He's My Brother
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-Written by B. Scott and B. Russell
-Peaked at #7 in 1970 as performed by the Hollies
-Peaked at #20 in 1970 as performed by Neil Diamond
-Peaked at #30 as the B-side to "Let It Shine"
in 1976 as performed by Olivia Newton-John] |
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[basepair] If the tortoise experiences a lifting force on his shell, why couldn't he tilt so that the force accelerates him earthward? Of course, the tilt would produce greater drag, so I don't know if he would really benefit from the tactic. |
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If any callous tortoise-owning 'baker with air travel plans could test this, I'm sure we'd all be interested. |
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I'm not sure - the tortoise's scaly legs must increase drag, but if the hare's ears are made of erectile tissue, then they could be rigid enough to provide down-force. Hmm, "like hare on viagra" could be a modern simile... |
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Would the scales increase drag, or would they actually help, like the dimples on a gold ball? |
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[Friendlyfire] - you're drifing away from
the original aim, which was a horizontal
race. (I mean, a vertical race WOULD be
silly, now.) However, I don't think any
"negative lift" device can make a free-
falling body fall faster than a
streamlined "straight down" one. (Can
anyone help me here? Antigliders?) |
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[Absinthe] - I think you're right about
the erectile ears. Naturally, all
competitors would have to be drug
tested. |
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Is there a gap between the tortoise's
body and its shell? If so, some
interesting ram-jet effects might arise. |
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NB - "Drifing" - present participle of the
verb "to drife" (intr.) - to move away by
degrees. (alt. sp. - "drift" [obs.]) |
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[basepair] Fair point - the race is indeed horizontal. But would the "tilting the shell to point the lift slightly in the direction of travel" strategy still be feasible? |
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Actually, thinking about it, the whole lift factor would simply raise Turtle off the floor, and he'd be dashed against the rear wall. Score one for Hare. |
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[FriendlyFire] Hmmm - I see your point
about forward-tilting the shell. On the
other hand, if a wing-like surface can
provide a lift *into* the direction of the
relative wind, are we not dangerously
close to perpetual motion, or at least
dangerously positive feedback?
On the lift/stability issue, I wonder if
we might not eventually see the
emergence (through widespread usage
of winning tortoises for stud purposes)
of a aero-racing tortoise with its shell
flat on the top and curved underneath?
Of course, the legs would have to
lengthen to reach the ground.... Hang
on for a second while I do a few more
tests.... |
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....WOW! That was awesome. The
down-force is incredible! Good job
tortoises have sturdy legs. However, he
does not look at all happy wearing his
shell that way up. |
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[Terry Carman] No, tortoises generally can not swim. Tortoises are terrestrial, which means that they live on land. Unlike aquatic turtles, tortoises lack webbed feet. Should a tortoise by accident fall into a pond or swimming pool it could sink to the bottom like a rock and drown. |
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All this about turtles and turtoises is confusing me. But one thing I do know [yabba do] is that I had one of these creatures once (in so far it is possible to own a living creature) and it had paws suitable for walking on land with sharp nails and everything, clearly a land animal. Yet it could swim very good and liked it. At least that's what he told me.. |
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As most wind tunnels are the pulling type (fan behind) to avoid turbulence, I recommend a mesh screen to avoid tortoise-hare soup. |
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Are they? I didn't know that. Makes sense, though. I wonder if the aviation wind tunnels are pull through as well. |
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I didn't realize that either. Perhaps
there's room for both types (turbulent
and non-turbulent) - sort of the
equivalent of flat-racing versus jumps. |
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[zeno]: The 'claws plus swimming' thing may have been a terrapin. (Like a Panic PIN, but used in cases of terror.) (Also a Syd Barrett song.) |
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What, like thirty hardshelled terrapins gathered together in a cave terrified of swimming and grooving with a pict? |
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[bris], yep. The fan would spoil the airflow. Basepair, there's no point to a turbulent windtunnel; it would ruin the experiment. |
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[RS] it's not an experiment, it's a
gambling opportunity. I think the
turbulence would add the necessary
element of uncertainty. |
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Una - for clarity: reptilian participant =
tortoise = "any slow-moving plant-
eating land reptile of the family
Testudinidae" (not turtle or terrapin).
Mammalian participant = hare = "any of
various mammals esp. of the genus
Lepus resembling a large rabbit".
(Further clarification - giant tortoises of
the Galapagos kind are explicitly
disqualified from tortoise/hare races,
but may be raced against capybara.) |
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This is madder than a mad hare on National Mad Day in March. |
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Una - Leatherback turtles would be
disqualified on all of the
aforementioned criteria. *However* - in
principle there is no reason why one
could not establish a suitable
handicapping system to equalize any
given pair of animals. For example,
leatherback turtles v elephants on a
very steep, sandy slope. Or butterflies
v. caterpillars in treacle. Or George
Bush v. Tony Blair on the surface of the
moon (simply because I'd rather they
were both there). The possibilities
sadly unlimited. |
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Come on guys. You know in a wind tunnel the hare would scurry off downwind and the tortoise would draw into its shell. Or haven't you watched any of those Animal Channel type shows?
I like dropping them off the Empire State Building best (as did that guy *Galileo* using the Tower of Pisa with cannon balls and stuff). You might see if the hare's ears could be used to provide lift (ala Dumbo), or the tortoise could ride its shell in like the space shuttle.
Wouldn't want to provide too much duress to the animals, so would station marksmen on the ground to shoot them before they smash onto the pavement.
Is that wierd enough, or must I kick it up another notch? |
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//You know in a wind tunnel the hare
would scurry off downwind and the
tortoise would draw into its shell//
You are, of course, not
thinking of trained racing hares or
racing tortoises. After all, would you
expect a wild horse to happily run
around a large circular track jumping
over things whilst a smallish person sits
on its back? |
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Tortoise would most definately win. Though you would have to prevent the tortoise from scratching its shell for it would decress the aroedyamic shape.. It would have to be a hand raised/trained tortoise with a very smooth shell. The two tortoises I own have very rough shells from being out side all their lives. Tortoises can be suprisingly fast as well as extremely violent. |
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"Raul's Wild Kingdom" taught me that the turtle is nature's suction cup. |
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When do we get to drink from the firehose??? |
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According to British/American super-author Bill Bryson in his book A SHORT HISTORY OF NEARLY EVERYTHING tortoises were destined to become the alpha mammal[edit: ANIMAL] on the planet until people came around. |
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//tortoises were destined to become the alpha mammal// |
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Unlikely, since they are not mammalian. |
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Apparently, the philosopher Aeschylus was killed by a falling tortoise. Maybe they can secretly fly - I bet they spin when they do so. This would explain UFOs. |
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Some Japanese film features a giant spinning flying tortoise to fight against Godzilla. |
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Maybe the Olympians ran out of discuses. |
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You'll get sued by Aesop for copyright infringement. |
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