h a l f b a k e r yCeci n'est pas une idée.
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I can not find any study on this subject so I've had to conduct my own. The only hits I find are my own annotations. I have noticed for many years now that facial asymmetry, specifically one eyeball situated higher in the skull than the other seems to indicate mental characteristics of the individual.
Indeed in many people one eyeball appears dead when compared with the other. I am sure that there must be exceptions to this rule but I haven't really seen any yet.
It seems to me that people with a raised left eyeball are more extroverted, overachieving, and tend to lean more towards the sociopath end of the spectrum, while those with a raised right eyeball seem more introverted, laid-back, and lean towards the empathic end of things.
Examples of left-dominant eyes would be Donald Trump and Adolph Hitler, while Ganhi and Mother Teresa were both pronouncedly right-dominant.
These are extreme examples but illustrate the point rather quickly.
I have also noticed that mates chosen by those with a dominant eye seem to have the opposite eye as their dominant one, and I wonder whether this is because an individual usually sees most of themselves in a mirror where this trait would be inverted to the observer, so that they feel sense of rapport with others who most closely identify with this inverted image of themselves leading to the old phrase; opposites attract.
Physiognomy
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Physiognomy
[xaviergisz, Jul 22 2021]
Appearance and Physiognomy
http://www2.psych.u...Rule(2015_HNVC).pdf
warning: 83 page PDF [xaviergisz, Jul 22 2021]
Explaining difference between facts and opinions
http://images.ucomi...a/1986/ga861227.gif
[pocmloc, Jul 23 2021]
One bigger eye above one smaller eye
https://www.youtube...watch?v=pCofmZlC72g
[pashute, Jul 25 2021]
Emotional Modulation of the Pupil Response in Psychopathy
https://www.ncbi.nl...rticles/PMC6602524/
[xaviergisz, Jul 28 2021]
[link]
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If you think Mother Teresa was empathic then you've been mixing in the wrong company.
I, of course have both right & left raised eyeballs. I am extrovert but reclusive; over-achieving yet laid-back; empathic but hate people; I am enlightened yet wrathful; weathy yet poor; generous but possessive and I am both Ant & Dec*.
* That joke stolen from Andy Hamilton. |
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So, this may be a thing, it may not be a thing - but unless
you're working off photographs, you have to consider the
possibility that your observations are somehow skewing
the experiment. |
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Imagine the following thought experiment - an individual
with a huge right eye and extroverted personality goes
around talking to people and recording their reactions. If
those people concentrate on the individual, they might
focus on the larger, more prominent eye - and if they're
focusing, they might mirror the individual's behaviour -
both in terms of their exuberance, but also the way they
hold their facial muscles. |
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Conversely, if they're not engaging, they might favour the other eye, or act in a
different way. The stats should figure it out in the end. |
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Now extend the same experiment with the following
collection of individuals i) large right eye, introverted, ii)
large left eye, extroverted, iii) large right eye,
introverted and record the reactions of the public based
on their encounters. |
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Lots of interpersonal stuff is like operating in a hall of
mirrors, people respond and simultaneously telegraph
their feelings, generating reflections of reflections and
it's all quite difficult to find a first cause. Hence the
attempt to identify at least a few additional variables. |
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That's not to say this isn't a factor - but I'd start from a position of healthy scepticism
before jumping to this conclusion, at least until you've ruled out other possible factors
for your observations. |
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//you have to consider the possibility that your observations are somehow skewing the experiment.// |
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// I'd start from a position of healthy scepticism before jumping to this conclusion, at least until you've ruled out other possible factors for your observations.// |
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I've been running this little observational experiment since about age ten or so.
Step-dad had the raised left eye thing and I learned about socio/psychopathic behaviour from him.
I've been able to see the same look in the eyes of others ever since that impressionable age and ask questions of the people who know them to find out if my assumptions about their personalities pan out or not. |
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I'm 52 now and still waiting to meet anyone with that look in their eye who doesn't share his bent. Impossible to reason with, blind to their own shortcomings, adamantly rejecting any constructive criticism as an affront to the level of respect they feel they deserve without having earned it. |
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I'm just surprised I can't find a single study on the subject.
I keep saying; "well, I can't be the first guy to think of this." and then finding out that, hey, maybe I am. |
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Does mister Poe mention left/right asymmetries and their association with behaviour? |
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Nay knave.
<slaps [a1] with supple ostrich-hide gloves>
"Pistols at dawn." |
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hmmm, that's not the angle I'm hoping this will take if I am right.
If, and it's a big IF, asymmetry is tied to mental behaviour then it could be used to help rather than slot and ostracize individuals. |
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We're all bent and blind to our own faults.
By not profiling children at a young enough age to be mentored by those who have overcome the same bent we do a grave disservice to society.
We all feel like we are the first to feel the way we do when we first start questioning our own motives.
How many make the connections themselves?
How many others are left foundering? |
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I'm just saying it's worthy of research. |
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Recognizing the look in that bastards eyes has panned out for me. I avoid that look like the plague. I imagine that the child subjected to whatever it takes to attain that look got left to become a psycho/sociopath in adulthood because unrecognized it could hide amongst us, and much like my own personality, resents not being recognized early enough to meet others like themselves and have a hope in hell of changing. |
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Profiling children to help them and leading adults to the gas chamber are two very separate things. |
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Not to profile you... but that you jump to one and ignore the other says stuff.
Just sayin... |
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I don't see it as likely. My son's head is quite
asymmetric due to difficulties when he was born, but
his personality doesn't seem to hold with your
hypothesis. But, then again, there are days when he
is demon-spawn... |
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//I'm just saying it's worthy of research.//
As xaviergisz's
first link makes clear, this has already been researched and
the hypothesis has been disproved. The idea is, like the
tale, old as time, but was looked on more favourably as part
of the 19thC. mania for Darwin-inflected theories of society
and human nature. That mania died a slow death and
before it died it sired many horrible "sciences" (e.g.
criminological positivism of Lombroso, Herbert Spencer's
social Darwinism). |
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//this has already been researched and the hypothesis has been disproved// Hmmm. Maybe that means that it needs even more research then? |
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Maybe it needs "alternative research" |
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Quite. If the existing facts are not satisfactory, then make up some new ones! |
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//Must get that from his mother's side, right// |
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He's the spitting image of his maternal grandfather
and great-grandfather. My daughter, who's primarily
demon-spawn and only good as an exception, is the
female me. |
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I did say that if it held true that there would be exceptions.
My own daughter has cyclic third cranial nerve palsy and one of her eyes literally goes dead on an eleven second cycle. |
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I do not think her asymmetry is indicative of her personality, just as I don't think that nature automatically overcomes nurture. |
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//People are entitled to their own opinions, but not to their own
facts.// |
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Now there's a whole can of epistemological worms. |
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Yeah! See! <sticks tongue out at a1> |
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But head shape being affected by birthing is
extraordinarily commonplace. So not so much
exceptions as a simple lack of trend. |
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supermarket fragrance lipstick espionage dosage. |
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//There is a correlation between testosterone, aggression, criminality, dominance, and leadership and a correlating factor is the width to height ratio of the face as measured across the cheekbones.//
The same article also talks about being able to identify your religion from your face. Laughable bullshit. |
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//a result of healthy eating and clean living//
Yeah, because only the chosen people eat healthily & have moral lifestyles, right? Eugenics at it's worst. |
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//I'm particularly interested//
No. You're just trolling. |
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In science, I think you'll find that it is usual to subject your theories to peer review, rather than publishing them un-reviewed in a pop-psychology magazine. So, no. It's up to you to prove your position. Try using actual, real science. |
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//But head shape being affected by birthing is extraordinarily commonplace. So not so much exceptions as a simple lack of trend.// |
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If birthing affects head shapes so commonly perhaps that in turn affects brain shapes. I'm just spit-balling here but, could be why some ancient cultures used cradleboarding to reshape a babies skull. Maybe their were cognitive effects other than a strange concept of beauty. |
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//2_fries suggested - that anyone with eyes like his father must be evil - or even just pre-disposed to evil (though he says this guideline has never failed him)? He needs to do more than the tiniest bit of research there.// |
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Don't be putting words in my mouth now. I never mentioned evil, (although the bastard was that I think he was made that way, which would explain his knowing how to Stockholm our family so easily... I believe he was the recipient of worse than he could safely dish out a generation after his own beatings), no, I mentioned sociopathy and pyschopathy. Both of these mind sets are geared to attain power over their surroundings and, depending on a given situation, exist dormant in almost every psyche. |
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//And the whole situation becomes a self fulfilling prophecy of sorts.// |
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That could very well be true but has not been my experience. I may not be a scientist but I never stop double checking my gut feelings because blindly following them is a sure road to madness.
See, it's not just his look I can recognize in the eyes of others. Most mental illnesses leave their mark in the glints of people's eyes. |
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That last anno I did, but not in conjunction with the original concept.
Evil is a choice. We all knew that kid that used to get kicks from pulling the wings off flies and torturing small creatures, heck I knew one kid who's favorite, (hmmm why does 'favorite' tag as misspelled?), thing was snaring gophers and then swinging them around until their heads popped off.
That behaviour is certainly burgeoning psychopathy... but can't be considered evil because the trait is inherent. That child did not ask to have that particular predisposition and yet it is a spectrum thing. Having the exact same mind set not quite so far over on the spectrum is what lets morticians do their job and EMT responders not puke on the bones jutting out of your body when they first arrive. |
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Evil is a decision. Once you've been taught that it is considered wrong to hurt things just because you can, you might not understand why that is, but you can choose not to.
Some folks, especially children, can be coerced into making this choice at an age where not only are they too young to understand the consequences of their actions, they believe that they have crossed a line which can not be re-crossed, without realizing that it is more of a teeter-totter type of thing. |
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You always have a choice. |
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Cool links guys. Thanks. Totally strapped for time and haven't gotten through them all yet... but I will. |
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