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In the 19th century, English travellers in foreign parts rarely bothered to learn more than a few words and phrases in the local lingo. They simply shouted slowly, and jingled a bag of money.
Amazingly, this worked. Although a few got robbed, most attracted an English-speaking local to translate
for them.
Inexplicably, in the 20th century, the education system somehow lost its way, and started to teach the rudiments of foreign languages to native English speakers.
This was clearly a mistake.
Quite large chunks of the school curriculum are currently wasted on teaching foreign languages when there are much better things to be doing.
Thanks to the Internet (Invented by an Englishman), English is rapidly becoming a de-facto world language. It's possible that before the end of this century, everyone, perhaps even Americans*, will be able to understand and speak in comprehensible English.
In order to encourage foreigners to learn (or re-learn, as everyone is born knowing English but foreigners have just forgotten through lack of practice), the teaching of foreign languages in all English-speaking countries must cease forthwith, providing a strong inducement to those wishing to trade.
Hopefully, other nations will soon cease to teach anything other than their own local gabble, and English.
And thus the Cultural Imperialism of the Anglo-Saxons will advance across the globe.
* no guarantees there, though.
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https://www.duolingo.com/comment/9043930
They can't teach or learn them all. [popbottle, Jan 31 2017]
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Viewed as a net gain to humanity, this actually does make sense, sort of, almost, in a way. English is indeed the de facto international language; and the world would be a better place (and a better place to trade in) if we all spoke the same language. The fact that English is the Best Language is purely fortuitous. |
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Linguohegemonization is perhaps an unsubtle and possibly unfair way to implement this, but it does have its long-term advantages. |
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(although not enough to warrant a bun) |
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One of my favourite things about English is its mutability,
and this mutability is the strength of 8th's plan, though
likely for reasons that will cause him psychological
haemmorhoids: the English that is picked up by nasty
forrins will, as it has in all jurisdictions that English has
been lingual kudzu, develop grammars and vocabularies
that sit askew from 8th's own footnote-and-prejudice
riddled brand of English and this proximity to but essential
difference from the argot of each county's mercantile class
will be all the more maddening than would be the case if
the forrin trader in question was speaking his or her own
uncompresensible language. |
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Having a "lingua franca" is a great idea; I'm just not sure English is the language for the job.
It's a very messy language; all the rules have so many exceptions, that I have said in the past that there aren't any rules in English. There are words that are spelled the same but are pronounced differently, and have different meanings. There are words that are spelled differently but are pronounced the same. There are words that are spelled the same, pronounced the same, but have vastly different meanings.
I've heard (from people who aren't "native" speakers of English) that it is very hard to learn, and other languages are much easier.
Sometimes I wonder how any of us use it coherently at all. |
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//I've heard (from people who aren't "native" speakers of English) that it is very hard to learn// That's strange, because it's usually said that English is one of the easiest languages to learn. A lot of the grammatical curlicues present in other languages (including most Romance languages) are simply absent in English. |
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It also depends on why you're learning English. English has one of the largest vocabularies of common languages, and native speakers use a much larger word set than those of most other languages. That can make it difficult to learn to understand native English. But it is relatively easy to learn to speak English fairly well, by dispensing with many of the subtle near-synonyms. |
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English also has the advantage of being quite error-tolerant, in that you can make lots of mistakes yet still convey the right meaning. That's not true of some other languages, where a wrong suffix can really bugger things up. |
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To put it another way, if a Guyanan, a Lithuanian and an American Indian have to be able to communicate with each other, it's easier in total for all three to learn basic English than for two of them to learn the third one's language. |
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I think this may have already been implemented. Since I
can't speak any German. I was apparently taught German
for 5 years, so were quite a lot of my friends, all similarly
monolingual. On the other hand, all the foreign people at
my job speak English. They have clearly been taught. So all
that remains is to fire all the language teachers and make
it official. |
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// fire all the language teachers // |
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These teachers must by definition speak English and a forrin language. Simply pay them to go to the forrin place and re-educate* the natives. |
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* in the Maoist, cultural-revolution style of re-education, i.e. repeated random violent beatings. |
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I think there is a better chance of understanding
your average foreigner (who probably speaks a little
of the international language), than say, someone
from Teeside. |
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Perhaps Lawyers, Doctors and Engineers should only be taught English, so we would have a chance to understand them ? |
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//everyone is born knowing English but foreigners have just
forgotten through lack of practice// |
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Or as neonatologists call it, babble. |
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//Or as neonatologists call it, babble. |
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Hang on...how did the Borg species(?) get to learn English? They don't seem have a big problem with it.. |
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There are (roughly) 500m people with English as a
first language and 2bn people with English as a
second language, so it behoves those with English
as a first language to speak it whilst in foreign
parts, as an educational service to the natives.
This might also mitigate against what is
currently naturally happening with English -
English as a Second Language (ESL) is evolving to
be a new language with a simplified grammar and
vocabulary. So, today, two ESL speakers from
different parts of the world will understand each
other more easily than they will understand a
native English speaker. |
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A sad truism is that apparently in a meeting of one native speaker and a group of people from many countries (whose second language is English), the native speaker is the one most likely to baffle the others unintentionally with slang usage,irony etc. Excluding the native speaker would lead to less confusion and a more productive meeting. |
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//Excluding the native speaker // Excellent - I'll be down the pub. Give me a shout when you're finished. |
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//This might also mitigate against what is currently naturally happening with English// |
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There! You see? That proves my point that even English with errors is easy to understand. We can immediately recognise that what [Hippp] actually meant to say was either "...mitigate what is..." or possibly "...militate against...". |
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// how did the Borg species(?) get to learn English? // |
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1. Collective cybernetic entity. |
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2. In the future, everyone speaks English. You only need to watch any episode of Star Trek to realize that. |
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// likely to baffle the others unintentionally with slang usage,irony // |
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Unintentionally ? We think not ... |
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Though English is my third language, it's certainly the
preferred one at this point. Hard to rhyme, though |
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Deep breaths, [IT], deep breaths ... now, you need to take two of the big white tablets, and go and lie down in a darkened room until the Red Mist goes away. |
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//in a meeting of one native speaker and a group of
people from many countries (whose second language is
English), the native speaker is the one most likely to
baffle the others unintentionally// |
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This is an accurate depiction of my extremely
international workplace. I was even asked by a
Taiwanese lady "do they speak English where you're
from?" |
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//likely to baffle the others unintentionally with slang
usage,irony// |
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My friend who after several years fully immersed in
English culture has got to the point where English is
essentially at native speaker level. His opinion is along
the lines of: "no, you're not communicating, well, you
are, but rarely about what the conversation seems to
be about. Usually, everyone understands the reason for
the conversation in a few seconds. The rest is two
people moving the conversation along while scanning
for opportunities, such as: Puns and assorted wordplay,
and any chance to insert a veiled sex reference. Often,
seemingly out of boredom with the main point, the
meaning will start to be conveyed by saying the
opposite, then switching back and forth just to keep
everyone off balance" |
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The plan is doomed to failure, 8th. As calum points out (I think), expediency & utility will inevitably lead to impenetrable local variations (Engrish, Franglais, Geordie etc). So what you will end up with is, instead of a world united in harmonious English Psalm Psinging, a world divided into loads of different versions of American & where everyone thinks they understand each other but actually, nobody does.
Personally I'd rather stick with the current system. At least now I definitely know when I don't understand somebody. |
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Yes, but actually the main point of the idea is to upset the french. |
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[IanT] for me that's the inherent beauty in the whole
general mish-mash, it was a decidedly unplanned,
incremental series of random successes, punctuated with
great swathes of catastrophe to clear the decks and start
(almost) from scratch. Actual, proper, elegant design
sometimes gets involved and creates (often idealised, non-
material) foundations up which other things blindly
clamber, but they're rare. |
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How the English view the French in terms of their stuffy,
planned, 'official release' language nonsense, is how by and
large Americans view Queen's English language snobs. |
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Yes, it's called "Jealousy" ... |
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"This will be 8th's idea." |
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<scratches [doc]'s name off the "No Christmas card this year" list> |
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I'm slower than the doctor - it took me two paragraphs to reach the same conclusion. |
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<writes [norm]'s address on padded envelope, commences filling same with selected moist morsels of companion animal excrement> |
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As for me, true, I may be a nationalistic
isolationist who thinks most non-western cultures are
backwards and useless, but to be fair, I have some faults as
well. |
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Your self-deprecating honesty does you great credit. Just because
you're a opinionated intolerant xenophobe in favour of a brutal
authoritarian militaristic regime doesn't mean you're a bad
person ; far from it .... |
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Untrue, I don't favor a militaristic regime. |
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And for lurkers reading this thread, there's a time limit for
Godwin's law. You must post within 15 minutes or it doesn't
count. |
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// jingled a bag of money // |
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What happens to this scheme when the jingle runs out? |
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Form three ranks, fix bayonets, and give 'em five rounds rapid. |
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That's already a policy around the world .... |
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//<writes [norm]'s address on padded envelope, commences filling same with selected moist morsels of companion animal excrement>//
<...ten minutes later, realises that he probably shouldn't have sealed the envelope by licking the glue> |
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//the most arse-backward mongrel bastardised hybrids [...]
another idea that nobody understands yet// |
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What's described here is known as a "consulting opportunity".
Many of the world's better-paid jobs depend on it. I wish I were
joking. |
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//Yes, it's called "Jealousy" ...// |
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Wow, and here I'd never think that 8th would openly admit to
being jealous of the French. People do grow after all. Here's
to taking that first step, sir. Not certain what towards, but
here's to it. |
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// 8th would openly admit to being jealous of the French // |
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Once again, your imperfect command of English betrays you. |
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The filthy frogs are jealous of the English for many reasons; being a nation that lacks anything approximating to a working sewer system, or an understanding of personal hygiene, they look Westward across the channel with envious eyes. Likewise, they crave the diversity, flexibility and concision of English, being unable to convey the concept of "Ta !" in less than nine syllables, and even need a special national institute to desperately try and prop up their rapidly withering archaic dialect. |
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As for the poor benighted Yanks, well, more deserving of pity than condemnation. |
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Yes, you know we're all jealous of your national dental
hygiene as well. Maybe bad teeth are required to speak
proper English? |
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// Maybe bad teeth are required to speak proper English?// |
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The funny thing is, the UK has one of the best dental health average in the world. Googling found several lists of countries ranked by dental health, with the UK coming anywhere from first (fewest fillings) to about seventh. Apparently Brits have an average of just 0.7 fillings per person. |
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I think the misperception is because Americans are more concerned with straightening and whitening teeth, and perhaps less concerned with their actual health. |
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// we're all jealous of your national dental hygiene as well // |
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Well, if you want to rejoin the Commonwealth you're going to have to do some serious, serious grovelling. |
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Let's look at the charge sheet, shall we ? |
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All that nasty business in 1776 - nothing short of treason. Hanging on to the institution of slavery long after civilized nations and even france abandoned it. Worst of all, turning up late to both World Wars, having spent a good while lending money at exorbitant interest and selling weapons before forced to join in by circumstances. Oh, and that screwup in Indo-China in the 50's where the OSS actually supported communist insurgents ... |
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I am prepared to forgive America almost anything when I get a craving for a Big Mac. |
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Are we still arguing about whether Amerigonians or
Brittainoids have the biggest balls? |
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I'm ok with leaving that a mystery. |
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In England we pride ourselves on our rugby - a game played by gentlemen with odd-shaped balls. |
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and resulting in odd-shaped heads. |
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Must've been too busy playing ball to keep your eye on the
real ball. If the Brits were half as good at management as
they had
purported to be, there would neither have been an
overthrowing of the oppressive regime, (stamps?, I mean,
come on), nor a few world wars started on the continent
most nearest to your watch, not ours. Seriously, it's not so
much even as a few hours travel for you to occasionally
check up on the Germans and Serbs every so often. |
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Even the Indians threw you off, and they're a generally
pretty passive and peaceable lot. And exactly who decided
on the Middle East map? |
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Treason implies that we are somehow obligated to have
masters to obey--I should introduce you to the liibertarian
wings of our parties. You'd make interesting bedfellows,
maybe you'd do eachother some good. |
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If your nearest neighbors both to the west and south have
railed against you for well over a thousand years, perhaps
some reform might be in order? |
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You're absolutely right - they've told them over and over again
that they're doing it wrong, but they don't listen, they just carry
on with their funny foreign ways ... |
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Have you tried talking louder and more slowly? |
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