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One of the few justifications for capital punishment is that it gives the victims (or relatives thereof) "closure." Now rmutt is not going to debate how that justifies state-sponsored murder, but if "closure" is so important, it can be obtained by simulated executions. Instead of administering a lethal
injection, just use the sedative part. Witnesses think that the convict is executed when in fact s/he is just deeply sedated. Curtains close on the execution chamber, witnesses can go home with "closure." In time, convict wakes up to first day of life sentence.
I've linked this before, but...
http://www.prologue...nArghans/Rant1.html
Last paragraph. [angel, Oct 26 2001]
Cyberextruder
http://www.cyberext...emplate.asp?page=50
Create your own virtual enemies. [Guncrazy, Oct 26 2001, last modified Oct 04 2004]
The difference between execution...
http://www.m-w.com/...ictionary?execution
Entry number 2. [StarChaser, Oct 26 2001, last modified Oct 04 2004]
...and murder.
http://www.m-w.com/...n/dictionary?murder
Entry 1. They are not the same thing. 'State sponsored murder' is meaningless. [StarChaser, Oct 26 2001, last modified Oct 04 2004]
Killing Hope
http://www.amazon.c...dos/ASIN/1567510523
So this is meaningless too? [rmutt, Jan 08 2002, last modified Oct 04 2004]
I've linked this before, but...
http://prologue.nom...my.co.uk/Rant1.html
Last paragraph. [angel, Oct 04 2004]
[link]
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I, who am without guilt, shall cast the first fishbone. First of all, if it were public knowledge that executions are shams, how would that bring "closure" to the families of the victims? |
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On the other hand, if this were a secret scheme (although, how could it be, for long?), I am uncomfortable with the idea of people being imprisoned in secret by a supposedly "open" society. The power to hold a large pool of human beings, in captivity, unknown to the outside world, simply screams for abuse. |
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"...simply screams for abuse." Right. And the power to execute a large number of human beings, in captivity, doesn't? |
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I had the idea that after the fake execution, the person would be brain-washed and realeased to work as a gov't agent, as in "La Femme Nikita". |
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I'll keep an eye on this post. This is kindling for Trolls. We’ve got
- capital punishment
- government conspiracy
- Islamic fundamentalism
- the worth of American life
- Viking adventurers |
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[sdm]: I thought Viking adventurers could beat up trolls any day of the week, with their big axes and all. |
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I also refer you to the pledge on my profile page. |
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Big N-O to this one, rmutt. The chances of keeping it secret are absolutely zero. The trick with conspiracies is to keep the number of people involved to a minimum but just just look at all the people you'd need to keep silent for this to work, the executioners, the prisoners, the prison guards and officials, the politicians. |
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I kind of like this one, the keeping it secret part might be hard but this is the halfakery... the problem is it is hard to apeal if you don't oficialy exist... but wait... you can't apeal from a death sentance... and this way if you are proved inocent after your "death" then you could be released somewhere else with a new identity... |
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pottedstu, trolls and Vikings both come from Norway. They may be related. |
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My sister got bitten by a moose once. ('course, that was in Sweden, though) |
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It seemed to me at first view that this was going to be another computer game. Well....why not? The secrecy thing seems impractical, and that of course is a fatal quality here on the hb. Instead, permit the aggrieved to simulate capital punishment as often, as messily, and with as lavish sound effects as they might desire. Probably if you scratch closure, you'll find it's a veneer over revenge, and with adequate fidelity SimCP could provide an awful lot of closure. |
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For the purposes of this little scorecard I'm keeping, that would be 3,000 WTC, some 150 Pentagon, 200+ in four destroyed airliners ... as compared to how many in Afghanistan? Seven? 20? 200? <scribbling in notebook> Bear with me ... |
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Now, presuming this were an Islamic fundamentalist nation, would I drop the nuclear device on Kabul at 2pm today or dusk on Sunday? |
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This would be the problem with being a Muslim fanatic ... I couldn't handle the math. |
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If you want to simulate capital punishment with a computer game, you can do it with UnrealTournament, Quake 3, or The Sims. See the link, upload your nemesis' face, and you'll have a digital doppelgänger whom you can frag or torture to your bitter heart's content. |
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1percent, I don't wish to fan the flames but, if it wasn't for muslim fanatics (i.e. the medieval Arabs), Europe (and by extension, the USA) wouldn't have a clue what maths is. |
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It is posible to do some maths with roman numerals... It just wouldn't exactly be fun... |
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And what did the Hundus ever give us? Nothing! |
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This idea would be, as others have said, impractical - you could never keep that big a secret in the US as it is today. Almost w*bn*, perhaps? Unfortunately, I suspect that even if you can get round that, you're just going to end up in a whole 'nother argument about the rightness / wrongness of catering to a victim's desire for "closure" or "revenge"... and I ain't getting into that one. |
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That said, another substantial problem with this idea is that it's very hard to track down an escaped convict who doesn't officially exist. |
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PS: ha! of all the typos to make. You'll notice the I is right next to the O. It was meant to be "Hindus". And they gave us 'zero'. That was a joke. Thanks. <mumble>stupid hands</mumble> |
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Yeah, Mitsubishi, but arguably inspired by Howard Hughes H-1 racer. |
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Well, not to offend you rmutt, but I really can't take people seriously who speak of themselves in third person narrative. That aside, after reading and rereading your proposal, I must say that I don't think it's stupid or anything, just not practial. I agree, a sedative would be more humane, but as a CP supporter, I feel the need to say 'fry 'em all!' or something equally barbaric. Closure is not found in lies. If you really want to give families/victims closure, see if they'd like to take part in the execution. I personally wouldn't, but I could understand if someone would. That sad individual might gain a better understanding of themself, or maybe they'd just feel like the job had been done adequately. They always say, 'If you want something done right, you've got to do it yourself', right? |
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I think this idea has potential (+). Keeping the number of people involved to a minimum is easy: make a limited amount of employees multi-task every job. Come to think of it, a few prisoners could be brainwashed to do the easier jobs, like the false executions, or bribing politicians. They could even be used to silence threats to the project. However, what if this has already been baked? Not that it has. Just that, if it has been, the general world knows nothing of it. |
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Wow- Capital Punishment has the most fishbones ever...do we need Lower Case Punishment? |
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Actually, reading Shadow Phoenix's anno reminds me of the film 'Nikita', where the protaganist murders a policeman and is then subjected to a fake execution and public funeral and then forcibly recruited into the French secret service. |
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