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Sahara Forest
Oil proves the place used to be [edited: *a forest*] covered with water | |
[Edited]
Why cant it be planned and done again?
+: Oxygen, Wildlife, Habitable area
-: May hurt tribes, May disturb existing desert wildlife,
may
damage oil-industry.
Solutions: Do it only far from tribes locations,
research
desert wildlife in each area before changing it. Check
that
there are reserves of desert for sustaining those. And
work
far from oil fields, or in a way that oil fields do not
mind.
Feel free
Solar_20Desalination_20Aquaduct
elf promotion. [FlyingToaster, Dec 13 2010]
Magnus Larson
http://www.ted.com/...o_architecture.html
Terraforming Arrakis... [2 fries shy of a happy meal, Dec 13 2010]
I'd like to see more of this technique
Bonsai_20Bullets
[normzone, Dec 13 2010]
Seeding Staff
Seeding_20staff
elf promotion as they say, but sadly not yet. [afinehowdoyoudo, Dec 18 2010, last modified Dec 20 2010]
Somehow I missed this one on the halfbakery
Irrigate the entire Sahara
Not the tunnel idea, but using geothermal power to move the water [pashute, Nov 29 2012]
Sahara water park
http://www.saharasams.com/Default.aspx
... Proves its possible [pashute, Nov 29 2012]
Massive reserves of underground water found under the Sahara
http://www.dailymai...s-water-Africa.html
[pashute, Nov 29 2012]
Sahara forest project
http://www.treehugg...african-desert.html
Seems someone had this idea in 2008 and seriously contemplated it. Using seawater greenhouses. [pashute, Nov 29 2012]
Seawater greenhouse technology
http://www.seawater...se.com/process.html
[pashute, Nov 30 2012]
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Annotation:
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It can, you just need to transport a lot of water from somewhere where there's lots of the stuff, to somewhere else where there's not enough. Like they did in Phoenix - or Las Vegas. What's missing from doing the same in the Sahara is any clear motivation. |
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So you can plan as much as you like, but in order to get anything done, you need your plan to highlight some big exciting motivational reason to get involved, otherwise, you might not get anyone else to join in. |
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olympic tree planting. see who can plant the most trees in a specific time and other sports ... |
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//tree planting// I imagine shifting dunes are a serious problem(?) and if a fixative of some sort could be applied to the soon-to-be-topsoil to keep it still while grass and trees take hold. |
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There is a fellow doing just that. Give me a sec.
<later> [link] |
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huh, that's sorta neat... very large scale though...a 6,000 mi long apartment building |
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[MFD] Not an idea. Not that I dislike the aim. |
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There is a below-sea level place in Libya where one could pipe fresh water, generated by a gravity driven reverse-osmosis setup. That would be a good place to start. Or at least you could have farms. |
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This is definitely an idea. |
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In answer to Tom: The benefit is for cooling the
earth drastically, and creating a location for many
more people (and wildlife) to live. Oh and a lot of
clean air (taking in CO2 and other toxins and
emitting a lot of oxygen). |
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Most of the sahara is empty. The oil "fields" are a
tiny
spec in that giant desert. And you dont do it
anywhere near where the tribes live - they too are
a spec in that desert. Maps.google for Sahara. |
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Industries don't mind trees, if they are on the
border of their area, and if they are not permitted
to remove them... I've been passing daily by a
large construction team who took down trees
along kilometers of roadway. They camp at the
entrance to a village under a group of large trees
that they can't take down (because its the village's
property)... |
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Why grow a forest in the Sahara? There are lots of places which had forests in historic times where you could grow forest again. Like Scotland. The Scottish tribes might be coopted to help with the plan or at least could be played off against each other while you work on the forest. Or Michigan. |
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because its a gigantic area. It would change the
global warming to an issue of how to artificially warm
the planet with too much cooling. |
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and [2fries] thanks for the great link! I was not aware
of Magnus Larson. |
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: ]
love those Ted talks. |
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As a rule, oil indicates prior ocean status, not prior
forest status. |
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Meche can you give a source? |
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What [MechE] said. Also, the conditions that
favoured oil production occurred a very long time
ago. The earth has radically changed since then. For
instance, there is coal in Antarctica - along with
fossil remains of dinosaurs and tropical forests. |
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I'll quote the first paragraph of the wikipedia article on petroleum (emphasis mine): |
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"it is formed when large quantities of dead organisms, USUALLY ZOOPLANKTON and ALGAE, are buried underneath sedimentary rock and undergo intense heat and pressure" |
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Large scale plant matter under slightly different conditions produce coal. |
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Personally, it is my opinion that the Saharan tribes would prefer living in a forest anyway. |
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Additionally, this would IMPROVE the environment despite the prior existence of dessert creatures. A forrest supports much more and more diverse life than a dessert, which by definition supports little life. |
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I recently started thinking that this idea could be
good for the African 'refugees' now flocking into
Israel through Sudan, Libya, Egypt and across the
Sinai desert. |
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First I saw a TED show from Sudan, where a young
woman talks about how terrible it is that ALL young
men and most young women gave up all hope for
turning their country into a place people will want to
live in, and all say if they have a chance of leaving
they would rather never come back. Then she
continues to discuss the virtue of "talking positive"
and looking for a way to steer the people into action
for making their country a better place to live in. |
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Before the establishment of Israel, the Zionist
movement had made "Hachshara" - groups of young
people who learned to work in agriculture and lead a
communal life, so when they finally come "back to
the homeland" they would either join or establish a
Kibbutz. |
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I spoke recently at length with one young Eritrean
man who was working in a lumber yard, where I was
doing some of my recent experiments. Prior to that
he had worked here for two years in a hotel. He
spoke his native language, as well as Arabic which he
learned in
Libya, Sudanese when in a refugee camp there, and
now Hebrew. He studied 1 year
of biology at a university somewhere (probably
Moroco). He had a wife and two kids at home, and
the status of a refugee in Israel, so that he would not
be deported. He did not believe there could be
anything done to improve life at his homeland. |
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So here's the idea: Create a "hachshara" type of
place, in Israel's desert places. Its totally voluntary
to join the program. They get together to create a
type of community that works. (99% of the people
who come are hard working and willing to anything
for a living). Then with the help of the Israeli
government, purchase desert land in their own
countries and build up a large and prospering farm,
feeding their own people and teaching the system to
many more. |
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Most of these 'poverty refugees', a few of which are
genuine war refugees, come from arid and desert
areas. |
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Local Muslim Arab Bedouins would be invited to
participate as well. |
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Feels like a good idea. You should post it seperately and link this post to that. |
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I’ve seen proposals to irrigate the Sahara, with
thin coverings to prevent evaporation, but the
goal is to make agricultural land, not combat global
warming. |
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Desert has a much high albedo (that is, shinier)
than forest (about 0.4 vs 0.08 to 0.18), so while
turning desert into forest or farmland has
benefits, reducing global warming might not be
one of them. Considering solar power only,
deserts are significant planet coolers, forests,
warmers. |
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Of course, plant land have the potential (though
not the certainty) to remove (sequester) carbon,
reducing atmospheric greenhouse gasses, so their
global temperature impact is more complicated
than just their albedo indicates, but still, they’re
no panacea for reducing or reversing global
warming. |
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Interesting point D. Thanks! (Or is Craig your first
name) |
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Deserts have a high albedo, but forests actually absorb energy (as well as carbon). It's hard to find exact numbers, but, while the balance appears to still favor desert (estimate is 40% reflection vs. 18% reflection and 2-4% absorption), it's not 1:1. |
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In combination with the tradeoffs of increased cloud cover, which tends to have a higher albedo than desert or forest (depending on the clouds), I'm not sure which way it would break. The resulting reduction in CO2 would be a net benefit, however. |
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Hmm. So maybe too many trees caused the ice ages? |
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