h a l f b a k e r y"My only concern is that it wouldn't work, which I see as a problem."
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(I hope anyone on here speaking the Queen's English will
forgive my use of "gas" for petroleum-derived "gasoline.")
Some people believe that 93 octane gas will automatically
improve the performance of their low-compression engine
designed for 87. They like the marketing of the additional
additives
in "premium" fuel. In light of this marketing,
proposed is a high-performance gas station pump for high
octane gasoline. The 87 and 89 octane pumps would pump
slowly (as they do now at many gas stations), but the 93
pumps would allow people to fill their tanks quickly and get
back to their self-aggrandizing cell phone conversations.
information about octane. PDF warning
http://mn.gov/comme...ges/OctaneFacts.pdf
[Voice, May 25 2012]
A discussion about compression ratios
http://forums.anand...thread.php?t=198458
[Voice, May 25 2012]
Back in the day
http://www.edwardho...s/paintings/gas.jpg
[Phrontistery, May 25 2012]
Maximum Law Amendment
Maximum_20Law_20Amendment
Too many laws, eh? [ytk, May 29 2012]
[link]
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Oddly enough, I find I get about 13% more distance
from 95 octane than I do from 91 and about 28% more
distance from the same volume of Premium 98. |
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On average, 98 is about 6% more expensive than 95
and about 13% more expensive than 91 |
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I'm using about 120 litres per week (about 32 US gals)
so it's a substantial difference in cost. |
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I thought this was going to include prettier, more
elegant pumps. Ones with a grand, gold exterior, or
something like that, so people, (like me), don't
confuse them and end up paying an arm and a leg for
their gas. |
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I'd like to see all gas stations be re-designed to look
like my link, the modern ones are so grungy. |
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I think it should be made more clear that most engines are
indeed designed to run on low-octane gas and reap no
benefit from premium fuels. Too many people seem to
believe the myth that [KtheN] mentions; were I a
conspiracy theorist, which I rarely am (my paranoia runs in
much tighter spirals), I would venture that such myths are
actually propagated by Big Oil. I know people whose
families are on food stamps that insist they're actually
_saving_ money by running their rusted-out '97 F150 on 93-
octane. It's ridiculous. |
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My Mazda RX-8 requires 91 or higher. "Premium" gas is
not entirely worthless. I just think it's funny how
people think a higher octane rating must be "better." |
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Of course it's not worthless. The RX-8 is a high
performance machine. My Dad's '76 911 runs on high-
octane, as does my imaginary Triumph Speed Triple. But
what you said: |
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// Some people believe that 93 octane gas will
automatically improve the performance of their low-
compression engine // |
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is true, especially in places like my locale, where there are
a fair number of ignorant hicks who would pour rocket fuel
into the tanks of their pickups if you told them it would
improve the performance. All it does is needlessly suck
money out of my community. |
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Running a 125cc motorbike on 100LL AVGAS, having tweaked the timing and carburation and also raised the compression by means of a different plug produces a substantial improvement in performance, along with an increased vulnerability to carb icing. |
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High-octane fuels make a difference to most cars only of you tinker with the map in the engine management unit. Some high end models will automatically sense the change in ignition point and automatically remap the injection and ignition. |
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I like this. "Introducing New Emperor's Robe Brand
Ultra
Premium Gasoline. The Chavas Regal of gas." |
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Show a snooty looking, tuxedo wearing butler filling
the gas tank from a crystal wine carafe with gas in it. |
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If you only used the premium gas in it once in a while, the
increase in performance you noted may have had more to
do with built-up carbon being burned off of the piston
heads and other surfaces inside the cylinder, rather than
as a direct result of the fuel combustion itself. Just a
theory. |
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[8th], obviously, if you hop up an engine with custom parts
and fiddle around with the performance settings, it's going
to run better on premium fuel. That's what premium fuel is
_for_. |
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My car takes premium but all I can find up here in the middle of nowhere is 10% ethanol (which really does hurt gas mileage) 91 octane slush. I like the idea, as long as gas stations didn't decide to slow down all of the pumps and make you pay more for faster pumping. |
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You poor bastard. You should never have moved away from
the city. |
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//In states like Oregon, where a station attendant is
required to pump your fuel// |
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//jobs created by requiring mini service.// |
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Rarely have I heard a more preposterous proposition.
Instead of that let's require every Walmart to hire an
extra 20 greeters. And we can legislate a bellhop in
every elevator. And no more than 10 customers to a
waiter, why not?!! |
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If we're burdening companies with the support of
bodies we need to be honest about it. Tax the
companies and pay into welfare systems. |
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Is Oregon such a breeze-free state that fumes hang around for
so long as to be dangerous?
I confess that the potty-humour
fan in me thought perhaps that this idea was going to involve
consumption of large quantities of Krug, caviar and asparagus |
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Why leave a tip? How can the insertion of the fuel nozzle be done particularly well? |
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It can't, but it can be done quite badly. You haven't had
much experience with union labor, have you? |
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But that was my point, doing a job normally deserves normal payment, doing it badly deserves formal complaint, doing it unusually well deserves a tip. Also, anyone asking for a tip automatically does not deserve one. Really! |
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I agree whole-heartedly, [poc], but not everyone shares
that mentality. There are many who feel that they deserve
a special reward for merely doing their jobs to the
required standard, and will intentionally lower the quality
of their work if this special reward is not given. This sort
of behavior usually either precedes or takes the place of a
strike. |
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Shit, I had no idea there were welfare states in
the US. I've been there but I have to admit I
never refuelled a vehicle in Oregon or New Jersey. |
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The US habit of tipping is downright annoying to
foreigners to your country. It's almost as annoying
as having to haggle over price with Arabs. I've
always figured something has a price and the
vendor sets it to meet the market or goes bust. |
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Legislating against people refuelling motor vehicles
is a bit like legislating that the chef can prepare
your meal the, after showing it to you, has to take
it away and cut it into bite-sized pieces. |
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And people pull their hair out wondering what's wrong with
this country... Well, for starters, we have too many damn
laws. |
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As for tipping, it's only compulsory for restaurant servers
and exotic dancers. Anybody who tries to tell you different
is looking for an undeserved handout. Sure, it's 'common
practice' to tip bellboys, parking valets, hotel maids (whom
I do tip on occasion), etc., but it's not calculated into their
incomes. So keep that in mind, [UnaBubba], and your
annoying tipping troubles are over. Alternatively, you
could simply not tip anyone, and they'll just correctly
assume that you're a godawful prick. |
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Okay. I'll widen it to 'food service'. My point is that there
are many people out there jimmying for tips who don't
have the right to claim gratuities on their income tax
forms, and that those people do not get tips from me
(except for the occasional hotel maid). Thank you for
doing your job, enjoy your paycheck. |
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Since the problem seems to be with the way the laws
are written rather than the recipient of the tip, I
would think it more productive to vent my
annoyance and desire for change more directly at the
responsible legislative body rather than punish the
server. |
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// I would think it more productive to vent my annoyance and
desire for change more directly at the responsible legislative
body rather than punish the server.//
Alas, yet another
shortcoming of a federation. |
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Yes, but on the plus side, nobody has stuck a spear in me
lately. I haven't been subjugated or persecuted, the place
where I live hasn't been occupied or annexed, and nobody
in my neighborhood has been hauled off to the salt mines.
So, in its cumbersome, tedious, horribly innefficient way,
the government is helping me live a decent life, and all it
asks for in return is half of my money and permission to
annoy me from time to time. |
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Pretty much the same as here in a constitutional monarchy then.
Except, no longer having the need for a well-regulated militia, the grizzlies, browns and polars get to keep their fore-limbs. |
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Say, do the polar bears in Canada and Russia have to
turn brown too, or is it just the ones in Alaska? |
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//Well, for starters, we have too many damn laws.// |
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Ahem... See link. (Only because you didn't seem to be
such a fan the first time around, [Alter] ;-) ) |
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What I hate is when the tip or 'gratuity' is quoted as part of the price. For example, I recently booked a car to take me to the airport in the US and the quote was "$115 + 20% gratuity" - What!? - if you mean $138, just say so.
That Oregon/New Jersey law sounds like Soviet Russia. Also, do some pumps pump faster than others? I've never heard of that before. |
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//I recently booked a car to take me to the airport in the US and the
quote was "$115 + 20% gratuity"// |
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Because it's a situation where a tip is generally expected, so this makes
it clear both that the base price is $115, and the customary tip is 20%.
Of course, since it's a tip, you're not /required/ to leave 20%. But if
they just said $138, it would be unclear that the price includes the
(optional) tip. It's just not the custom here to include the tip in the
price. |
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Honestly, when foreigners complain about tipping in the U.S. it just
makes them sound like whiners. It's not that hard to do the math, and
being able to tip or not tip /does/ give you the option to punish
exceptionally poor service. In countries where there's generally no
tipping expected, the prices are higher to compensate, so it's pretty
much a wash either way. And it's not like there are that many situations
where a tip is expected: restaurants, taxi rides, bellhops, parking valets
(sorry [Alterother], this is the expected custom, and their wages are
below market in expectation of this fact—you're just being cheap and
you know it), and a couple of other situations that you can easily look
up online if you're not sure. The fact is that, apart from the few
"standard" tipping situations, there's not really a clear guideline for
many tipping situations, so it's pretty hard to go really wrong. |
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When Americans travel to foreign countries, we're rightly expected to
learn the local customs and abide by them without complaining
vociferously about how ridiculous they are or using feigned ignorance of
them to excuse boorish behavior. I see no reason not to expect the
same of visitors to our country. |
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//Because it's a situation where a tip is generally expected, so this makes it clear both that the base price is $115, and the customary tip is 20%. Of course, since it's a tip, you're not /required/ to leave 20%.//
I always thought a tip was 15%.
This is confusing. |
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//I always thought a tip was 15%.
This is confusing.// |
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Depends on the situation. In this case, they're
indicating the tip is 20% because they obviously want
you to leave a higher tip. 20% isn't unreasonable for
excellent service in my opinion, but just leave
whatever amount you think is reasonable and don't
worry about it too much. |
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//When Americans travel to foreign countries,
we're rightly expected to learn the local customs
and abide by them without complaining
vociferously about how ridiculous they are or using
feigned ignorance of them to excuse boorish
behavior// |
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You might want to spread the word with your
cousins, who routinely complain loudly and publicly
about anything and everything, when they visit
other countries. There's a reason the rest of the
world thinks Yanks are all loudmouthed,
inconsiderate wankers, you know. |
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//You might want to spread the word with your cousins,
who routinely complain loudly and publicly about anything
and everything, when they visit other countries.// |
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They shouldn't. Anyway, I doubt it's really "routine". You
just only notice it when it occurs, and like to jerk off while
thinking of yourself as cosmopolitan and worldly by
comparison. And then you come here and pretend you
can't wrap your brain around tipping. There's a reason why
Americans think the rest of the Western world is filled with
smug but ultimately useless wastes of premium real estate,
you know. |
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Yep. You're absolutely right. |
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You can breathe easy though, [Ubba]. We love the Aussies.
Even Randy Newman
don't wanna hurt no kangaroo. |
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Yep. You're absolutely right. |
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//And then you come here and pretend you can't wrap your brain around tipping.//
No, there's no pretence, we genuinely can't.
Do you tip a librarian (who gives the same service as a waiter)?
Do you tip a shop assistant (who gives the same service as a bartender)?
Seriously, cut it out - it's weird.
Still, I suppose we should be grateful less than a third of them have passports. |
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bun for what [blissmiss] said! totally elegant pumps would attract more attention! |
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[ytk], I agreed with your motivation, I just wasn't a fan of
your proposed methodology. |
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//No, there's no pretence, we genuinely can't.// |
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All of your tipping-related questions can be
answered via a quick search on the Goog, or simply
consult any travel guide. But it's really not that
difficult. For food service (anything above fast
food, that is), you tip. For cars/taxis
and parking valets, you tip. For most services in a
hotel, you tip. Otherwise, you generally don't tip.
There are a few other tipping situations, but you're
not terribly likely to encounter them as a tourist
(furniture delivery, for example). But if you're still
confused and it seems like it might be a tipping
situation, just ask politely. Smile abashedly and
play up the foreign thing, and you won't offend
anybody. Most employees who aren't customarily
tipped are prohibited from accepting them anyway,
and just the offer will be taken as a compliment for
good service. |
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[Alter], call it a quarter-bun then? |
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I grew up in Oregon, so I can clarify a few points. I can't say anything about New Jersey. |
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1) Before today, the thought of paying a tip to the person filling my gas tank had never crossed my mind. I've never heard of it and have never seen anyone do it. Possibly related: there is no sales tax in Oregon either. Oregonians are used to paying what is on the price tag, but tipping at restaurants is unfortunately standard. |
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2) Regardless of the "official" reasons that the law was enacted many years ago, I lived through the arguments as gas stations lobbied to repeal the law and people voted to keep it in place. The arguments against allowing self serve seemed to come down to the fact that people didn’t want to have to get out of the car and get their hands dirty, and they are afraid that if self-service is allowed, any station that does offer full service will have ridiculous prices. Then they give a sob story about not wanting to make Grandma pump her own gas. Of course my mom (now a grandmother) has never pumped gas into a car before so doesn't like the idea of starting now. The gas stations lobbying in favor of allowing self serve always said the gas prices would be lower at self service stations, but people assumed that the companies would drop the service and not lower the price enough to make a difference. Comparing to the gas prices in Washington state (often higher), who can blame them. Of course it’s hard to compares prices without taking the state gas taxes into account, which no one ever seemed to do. |
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3) You only have to get out of your car to pay at the really cheap stations like Arco. Arco used to take cash from your window and give you correct change. When they started making people go in to pay, our theory was that this was to purposely annoy people to encourage the repeal of the anti-self-service law. Then I went to Washington and discovered that Arco made me stand in line twice: once to prepay, and again to get my change. I think they're actually hoping I'll buy something in the store (fat chance). Anyway, with most Oregon stations, you hand your credit card to the attendant out the window, they stick it into the slot in the pump and hand it back to you, and hand you the receipt when the pumping is done. |
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4) Commercial fueling stations are exempt, so my dad would fill up his company-owned truck at a self serve station. |
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5) I’m pretty sure there weren’t any unions involved. Gas station attendants are mostly kids figuring out that they should have worked harder in high school so they could go to college. |
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//Gas station attendants are mostly kids figuring out
that they should have worked harder in high school so
they could go to college.// |
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They're called "petroleum transfer technicians". |
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I didn't actually mean to suggest that labor unions were
involved in the no-self-service thing; I was just drawing a
correlation between the dubious rationale given for such
legislation and similar shifty language employed by some
unions. |
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I think the term you're after is "featherbedding",
[Alter]. |
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It's used to describe "cosy" work practices that
effectively make an industry or position
uneconomical, to benefit a select few, usually
employees. |
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Yes, that's exactly what I meant. There are a few other
less complimentary and decidedly blue-collar terms for it,
but I've heard that one before and it will do nicely. |
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//For most services in a hotel, you tip.//
Pool lifeguard? |
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