h a l f b a k e r yRenovating the wheel
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Hunting rifles that shoot paintballs instead of bullets. This way, hunters can do the whole stalking-shooting bit without actually killing and/or maiming the wildlife. Bright, da-glo paintball colors create large, highly-conspicuous, yet harmless splatters on the hunters' "prey," providing that "hit"
of primal satisfaction without violence.
Someone can't spell.
http://www.mclarencars.com/
[angel, Jul 26 2000, last modified Oct 05 2004]
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I applaud the wish to hunt without harming the prey.
Unfortunately, plinking a deer or other prey animal with a
day-glo splotch removes a key facet of their defense:
camoflauge. By painting an animal you make it significantly
more vulnerable to predation. I toyed with the idea of
suggesting that the splotches evaporate quickly, but that
would necessitate highly volatile marking compounds that
might be harmful to the beast, environment, or both.
Better still to hunt in a low-impact way that does not
harm your quarry but does afford proof of the stalk and
non-kill: use a camera. |
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Not to mention the fact that paintballs -hurt-. I've had them leave a welt four inches across through jeans. They also have the ability to put out eyes; I knew someone who had that happen to him. Someone else was fsking around with a gun in the neutral zone, so nobody was wearing goggles, and it went off. |
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Assuming that it doesn't get an eye, I'd say it's about the same level as catch and release fishing. |
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Jplummer: Note that hunters wear day-glo orange because many animals are colorblind. The splotch would only be noticed as a variation in value, not in hue. Other than that, I agree with you... |
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The other day I was thinking of this exact thing (and if I'd had a Palm Halfbakery portal I would have posted it). I was thinking of it in terms of small animals (rabbits) and had definitely considered the welt factor.. my solution being to use some sort of low-velocity paintball or low impact force at least (somehow). As far as the colour.. well bright orange things must not make them any more susceptable to preditors since don't they use bright orange for those tracking tags? But alternatively you could use dimmer colours (maybe dark red or somesuch) that would have enough contrast to tell that you hit the target, but not significantly change its colour. Maybe have semitransparent dye that gives the target a coloured cast, or makes it glow in infrared or something. |
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Paintballs are low velocity, relatively speaking. Something like 300fps or so. <Note: Number was pulled from an old memory. It's been quite a while since I did paintball. It may be incorrect or superseded by new guns> They're also .68 caliber, and not at all aerodynamic, aside from being spherical. You can't slow them down much, or they'll fall out of the barrel and make your fellow paintballers laugh at you, and if you speed them up at all they tend to shred themselves in your gun. I've seen paintballs bounce off unsupported leaves, and I've had one score a solid hit on me and bounce without breaking, as well. If you make the paintball any weaker, to burst more easily, you'll have the same problem of premature detonation. <I won't tell you what we called it when someone had paint dripping out of the gun barrel...> |
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For something the size of a rabbit, a paintball would quite probably break ribs or do internal damage causing the rabbit to die in agony a few days later. <Ask your doctor about 'fractures of the liver'.> The smallest critter I'd consider doing this to at all would be a large dog, as they're big and solid enough to take the hit without too much real damage. |
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There are things like paintball sniper rifles, with scopes and little fins on suction cups you stick to the paintball, that give them a little more distance and accuracy, and this might work for something like deerhunting, but you still have the problem with the eye shots. And if you want to try this on something like wild boar, set up a video camera and have your next of kin listed in your pocket somewhere. |
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Paintballs seem to be biodegradable...I can attest that both the outer casing and the paint inside taste much like soap. <right in the front teeth, just as I went to yell at someone. Bleah> And in a field where hundreds of people play every week, there were no 'spent casings' laying around, and nobody cleaned up anything but CO2 carts. |
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Hunting with light (either with an emitter or gatherer [camera]), strikes me as missing the point. There's no recoil, no gravity, no crosswind, no sound. Hunting is more than these things (says a non-hunter) but they are a big part of it. |
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Seems like you could have a gun "simulator" that takes a picture of your prey when you pull the trigger...at the same time it measures the distance, wind direction and speed, humidity etc and computes a % that you made a kill. You would have to have some sort of shape recognition process so it could tell if you hit the heart or the hindend. Your photo with the % superimposed on it is your trophy. |
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This "silent shot" would also give you a chance to improve your hunting skills by not scaring away your prey and allowing you to try and sneak in for a better shot. |
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How about some sort of velcro burr or epoxy dart affair with a weak transmitter on it?
That way the hunter can prove that they were the one that shot the deer (via a unique ID on the transmitter). And hunters would know to avoid deer that had been tagged recently. |
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This wouldn't combine well with people who are still hunting to kill deer &/or get meat. |
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I can just see the day when some yutz goes and shoots a bear in the ass with one of these guns! |
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I played paintball every weekend during the summer with my friends, and we'd go out to this place where there were a bunch of deer in the surrounding area. I think we shot those more than each other, great fun. |
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I just played paintball for the first time this weekend. We had some experienced people in our group. Most of the time the balls didn't break at less than point-blank range. I suffered two, brusing welts, through 3 layers of shirts. Other people had it worse, some newbies with only one shirt layer for protection. |
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I had the displeasure of having a newbie yelp in pain after I hit him at point-blank range (he failed to surrender), and he cowered in his spot the rest of the session. |
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Until they can develop a paint-delivery system that doesn't do any skin or lower level damage, then I consider "Paintball hunting" to be a form of animal cruelty, since it would be no different than throwing rocks at these animals. |
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Also, I don't consider hunting a "sport". If the animal has a chance to attack you back then I would consider _that_ to be a sport, to some degree. |
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If you want to "hunt" then play a computer hunting simulation. Or go to the paintball range with minimal clothing and see what it feels like yourself. |
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I wore one shirt and a pair of camo pants, and it didn't hurt that much. Left bruises, but wasn't incapacitating. <grins> We sneered at the guys wearing armor... |
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I wore a cup the first time I went paintballing, and as luck would have it, I got smacked in the crotch in the first game. The ball bounced off harmlessly with just a little thump. Needless to say, if I didn't wear protection, I'd be stuck with a life time of disfiguring welts and blisters in my nether regions. |
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Potato Guns. You can have your (potato)cake and (the deer) can eat it too. |
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Have any of you ever hunted before? I'll take the fact that this whole thing came up as a HUGE NO!! First the point of hunting is for the meat it is ILLEGAL as far as I know to take the head or rack and leave the meat(besides that's just disrespectful and pointless). This will most likely provoke some crude comment on animal rights and I'll porbably make PETA's top 10 most wanted. I personaly didn't claw my way to the top of the food chain to eat vegetables and Tofu(PUTRID!). This brings up another point, I'm assuming from this line of dialog that you want to abolish all hunting and guns, if hunting of deer were to stop completely the deer population would explode and since the deer habitat is shrinking every year deer would begin to come into populated areas and become scavengers but the majority would slowly starve to death, talk about cruelty! As "centauri" pointed out there is more then just saying, "Hey, I tagged a deer with a light beam!". Bullets don't leave welts for all thoughs who didn't know that and the only thing that the deer would feel is a brief chill then it would die. A good hunter can drop a deer in one shot that's why you practice your shot, the last hing you want is to shoot it in the but and have it run away and die a few days later.
P.S. I'll think of this whole thing when I set my sites on my next deer then slowly pull the trigger then watch it jump and then fallback to earth in a lifeless heap. I'll also think of it when I feild dress the deer for all thoughs who don't know that involve chopping off it's head or rack then skinnig it and reaching into it and cleaning out it heart, lungs, intestines and various other vital organs; Next you chop the meat off the bones and throw the bones away. Then I'll think of you guys when I bite into that first savory bite of venison and say to my self, "They sure are missing out, Fools!" then laugh and take another bite.
Any way have a nice day you bleeding heart liberals, you unenlightened saps, you quasi-intelligent lifeforms!! HA!! |
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Maclaren, I suggest you invest in a spellchecker and a course on grammar and style. |
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The welt mentioned was from the PAINTBALLS, not bullets.| — | StarChaser,
Jun 16 2001, last modified Jun 17 2001 |
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I apologize for not being up to par on spelling, grammar and style. Being 15 years of age I have not had the time to hone my writing skills. However for my age I fell I'm doing quite well compared to my peer some of which can't spell Japan or China. So "StarChaser", I apologize for my lack of experience I was not aware that it was a prerequisite to have a college writing level to post on this site. As for spelling I was writing quickly. I will try to aspire to the level of excellence that you have set for me. |
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Note to "Mephista": All hunters I know will not shoot if they don't think they have a clear shot. If the deer is walking then they will make some noise to stop the deer so they will get a good clean shot. Filed dressing a deer isn't much fun in fact it quite messy and smells horrible, however somebody has to do it. The scenario that you mentioned of shooting the deer in the 'haunch" is the very last thing that a hunter wants. Hunters also don't just take Bucks they also take Does however a Doe would not be their first choice. I have had wild venison that was so tender that when I tried to stab it with my fork it fell apart. That's what I call tender! Grain fed deer DOES NOT taste the same as wild deer that forage. |
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P.S. It's not "McLaren" it is "MacLaren" thank you very much! MacLaren being the name of the fastest street allowed stock vehicle in the United States of America. Its top speed is 231 MPH with 625 HP! |
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Sorry about misslepping your name, was a typeaux. |
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'College level' is not required, but you are not going to be taken seriously if you don't make at least an effort toward correctness, typing fast or not. |
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Mephista, as he said, some people like the taste of the meat. I don't really have a problem with people hunting plentiful animals, there are so many deer in some places they're starving to death because there isn't enough food for all of them. If they're going to die anyway, they might as well be eaten, rather than left to rot. |
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Paintballs, what a fun idea! You get the satisfaction of hunting, but since your not actually hunting anything you get a year round season. How cool is that!!! Personally, I see no disadvantage in this for Humans or Deer. Only problem would be if the Deer were to catch on, then you would have a problem. |
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You want a moving animal to stalk? Perhaps you want to sneek up behind it with oh so much stealth so it does not realise your there. You get close enough and you see the perfect opourtunity for a clean shot. Your heart is pounding loudly. You press your finger lightly against the trigger as you go over the only thought that is in your mind "can i make this shot?". you fire a quick bang goes out you got a clean shot off and your opponent walks off the field. Ok this is stupid If you want the thrill of shooting stuff take up paintball. The only reason people dont I think is rumers and how bad people say it is the reason for this is stupid people using these markes to shoot the neibours cats dogs and livestock. Paintball guns were never ment to shoot animals that is the second rule next to always wear your mask animals dont have masks small animals you can kill or seriously injure and large animals you can blind. Paintball markers are ment to use on people not poor donald duck. Paintball is not a dangerous sport in fact it has a better safety record than bowling. Once and a while you will hear storys about these people who got 4 inch bruises blinded etc.. There are 2 reasons for this one is they were exagerating or lying the second is that they were not playing smart. What i mean by this is if they are new to the sport they did not go to a reputable paintball park where they had experianced staff and a chrony. What should happen is that a staff member will explain the need for every piece of weguipment and the danger of failing to do so, many parks will ask a individual to leave if he is seen breaking these rules because without the proper use of the equipment it can be very dangerous otherwise it is very safe and enjoyable. hat I mean by a chroney is something that measures the velocity of the paintball all parks allow from240-300 fps no more the officials will check that the guns are set to this (the first time I played I made the mistake of going to a park with no chroney and very unexperianced staff and I did get several bruises because I know some hot shot teenages decided they could be more accurate by firing above 300 thankfully this place was shut down :)). If you do go to a proper park then you will come out with a smile on your face and possibly a few dime-quarter sized light bruises. It does no hurt much at all you get a slight stinging sensation for a few seconds and then you dont feel anything after. Paintball is a very enjoyable sport If you want to shoot stuff just play. The chances of 100s of hunters discarding thier guns just to go in a tree and wait for one deer to posibly pass by to say I got one is rather unlikely. And if people do start slinging paintballs at the wildlife it will be classified as animal cruelty and paintball guns will be banned to own ruining for all of us pb players. All this will do is attract more non hunters to terrorize the wildlife. Its simple if they dont want to kill things they won't hunt.
If you walk into any paintball store and say you "want a marker to shoot at the wildlife what do you suggest?" Im sure the shop keeper will politely ask you to leave. Unfortunately evil-mart and crappy tire sell the pieces of junk made by brass eagle also which are sold by people who probably have no clue what they are talking about. These cheap markers are used almost soley by vandals and people shooting at the neibours cat to keep it off the property. This is because they are cheap and made of junk and often break. These encourage unsupervised back yard paintballing by newbies.... hmmm i see a problem here this is where most missuse and "accidents" occur. If you are new I can't stress this enough goto a paintball park the rental guns are not only cheap to rent but they are also 10 times better than the wall mart junk making it much more enjoyable and safe.
If you hunt well you hunt. (hunters generaly are not wastefull they only kill what theycan eat and either sell or use the fur). If you have a desire to have the challenge of shooting something without killing it try paintball you will love it. Dont harrass mother nature for no reason its just stupid it is not like catch and release fishing by the way. Fish do not have a very advanced nervous system and are unable to feel pain, especially in thier very thin lips (got this from a biologist from the mnr) racoons and dear do and you will injure small animals with paintballs you are not injuring the fish if you practice propper catch and release.. |
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"paintballs harass and terrorize deer"
well, what makes you think that someone with a paintball marker will terrorize an animal more than someone with a rifle? I would think a deer would rather be hit with a paintball, which would not injure it, than have a bullet through it's heart. |
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On the subject of terror, I have a difficult time believing _all_ deer die miliseconds after they are shot, which makes me think they would be in excrutiating pain. Why not kill deer a less violent, maybe with a dart/non-painful poison? Makes me wonder how much hunters worry about the psyche of their prey, as opposed to being able to kill with a bullet . |
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paintballs easily wipe away even without water. I doubt a small mark would hinder the animal's ability to use camoflage even 10 mins after it was hit. |
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"If you have a desire to have the challenge of shooting something without killing it try paintball you will love it."
the day I can camp a few days, track, stalk, and shoot some unaware person out in the woods legally is the day i would agree with ya |
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//On the subject of terror, I have a difficult time believing _all_ deer die miliseconds after they are shot, which makes me think they would be in excrutiating pain.// |
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Good hunters avoid making shots where they are not confident of 'dropping' the deer then and there. To be sure, even very good hunters aren't always perfect, since the deer can decide to jump just as the hunter is squeezing the trigger, but that's one of the reasons many hunters like to have a weapon that can produce a reasonably quick follow-on shot. |
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"Do it properly, or not at all". |
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If you're going to hunt, then kill the animal as quickly and cleanly as possible. As far as possible, eat and/or use as much of the carcase as possible. This is then a hebivorous prey species being killed and consumed by an omnivorous predator species and is part of the natural cycle of things. |
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Or just take a photo and then creep away. |
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Startling animals with paintballs is pointless and unnecessary and probably cruel. They have enough real threats to be scared of in their environment without humans teasing them. |
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NB it's possible to fire paintballs at high velocities by placing them in a 12-guage shotgun shell and using a Plaswad and a black powder load; the gentle acceleration and low velocity will in most cases not rupture the paintball, and the plaswad will decelerate and detach after it leaves the muzzle. The range and power are substantially higher than with a conventional CO2 powered paintball gun. This technique probably places it in the "low-lethality" munitions category; capable of producing serious injury ( especially to the eyes) if fired at a human target at short or medium range. At 50 metres, produces some amazing bruises. |
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NB None of the above anti-animal-cruelty rant should be inferred to apply to Felix Domesticus. |
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I haven't tried pbing B-4 (though i'd like to) but i agree, pbing animals would only lead to non-hunters going out & scaring the wildlife |
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I just have 1 question for canadian psycho: DID YOU WRITE ENOUGH???? |
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[maclaren] I do agree w/ U on the fact that deer meat tastes SOOOOO good!! I have a vietnamiese friend who made some once MMM-MMM!!!do me a favor, when you think of us as you bite into tastey deer morsels , think of me and send me some!!! |
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Anyhoo, I really don't like the hunting of deer that much, but down here in Georgia, (where there are too many deer) I consider it a favor to the poor creatures to end their hunger and feed others (like me) |
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I think this is a very bad idea. Paintmarkers are dangerous, and this marking a wild animal is an insult. Maybe some people would be into this. But I think you are missing the point of hunting. The point of hunting is to kill animals. It is immpossible to experience hunting without killing animals. that's why they cal it 'hunting' That's it. Sorry. You can't eat a live deer. The very idea of someone injuring animals with a paintmarker is saddening. Hunters are in it for the right reasons (I wouldn't call it sport either) and paintball 'hunters' are in it for the cruelty |
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//maybe with a dart/non-painful poison// the problem with poisons is 1) very rarely are quick acting ones that can be admiisterd hypodermicly nonpainfull
2)poisons tend to make the meat poisonous and therefore unfit to eat. |
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You couldn't use paintballs. I'll explain this if it were a d20 scenario: |
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Player: I'm gonna shoot the deer with a paintball. (rolls 18) |
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DM: No, the deer eats you. |
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Regarding the "lost camouflage" issue--use disappearing ink. |
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what about cheese pellets, or custard darts for that matter. not only avoids dayglo splatters, but provides an interesting lick or two for the peckish animal. |
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Why not combine it with a vaccination programme...? The entry fee for the hunter can then cover the cost of the programme - everybody wins! |
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What 21Q said, and I don't like it: it makes a mockery of Nature. |
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... based on the assumption that there are hunters that are just interested in the chase, need something more than a simple photograph taken through a sight-camera, but aren't up to consuming a few hundred pounds of game animal. |
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The problem would be that they'd want a photo of the splotch which means reacquiring the sight-picture before the animal takes off in alarm. Of course if you're going to go through the trouble of creating a subsonic paintball system good enough for 200yds, you might as well create a steadicam 'scope. |
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(All the hunters I know do a complete follow through of course; I just assume there are those who don't, just like there are those who play paintball but aren't signing up for mercenary work.) |
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