h a l f b a k e r yNumber one on the no-fly list
add, search, annotate, link, view, overview, recent, by name, random
news, help, about, links, report a problem
browse anonymously,
or get an account
and write.
register,
|
|
|
Please log in.
Before you can vote, you need to register.
Please log in or create an account.
|
The first part of this idea has been discussed
extensively. It is to overwhelm North Korean
defenses
with dropped food transported by balloon, robot,
catapult, parachute, and any other method that
doesn't sent people across the border. The North
Korean government wouldn't have enough legitimacy
in the eyes of their own starving soldiers to respond
via attack. Whatever lies were told about the food it
would soon become obvious that it's eatable,
nutritious, and tasty. No one starving in North
Korea,
especially in the death camps, could go hungry if
bombarded with enough easily concealed food in
enough places.
The food would have only the message already
allowed
by the North Korean government: "A gift of the
people
of (originating country)"
The cost of the food offensive would be a slim
fraction of the cost of a hot war, especially if
prepared for years in advance by warehousing extra
food (very slightly raising food prices)
The food offensive would continue on a regular basis
for at least two years until no North Korean bothers
to
ask their government for food.
Then a third year of food. But these food packets
would have a note on them. It would say that the
food drops will stop in a year (eleven months... ten
months...) and it may be wise to start planting and
storing food. It would also say that more food is
freely
available to any North Korean bearing this message,
and he only need pick it up in South Korea. It would
suggest that the noble leader would certainly allow
North Koreans over the border to not starve.
In the unlikely chance a trickle of people were
allowed
over the border camps would be set up to provide
food to any North Korean as promised. In this case
they would also be given very concealable
communications devices (also carried over in the last
month's food packets) and the chance to defect.
If North Koreans are allowed over the border it will
create a high bandwidth communication stream
between (presumably somewhat trusted and
personally known) defectors and other North
Koreans.
This communication will help them realize how truly
horrible their government is.
If North Koreans are not allowed over the border
there
should be a broad spontaneous revolt near the DMZ
including some of the North Korean military. There
should be enough people miffed at not being fed for
the first time in years (or panicking because the
food they are getting is obviously from the now
stopped gifts which must run out in time) to turn
this revolt into a full fledged revolution.
Brainwashing
http://www.dailylif...20140407-36860.html
The plight of the North Korean. [Voice, Apr 22 2014]
canned fried silkworm
http://blog.greggma...es/random/kaiko.jpg
[not_morrison_rm, May 01 2014]
[link]
|
| |
North Korean soldiers are quite well-fed. It's one
way to ensure which way the guns will point in case the
starving masses revolt (ever wonder how the Beefeaters got
their nickname?). A number of other professional
classes eat pretty well, certainly anyone whose job puts
them in contact with foreigners. You're also not really
accounting for the extreme degree of indoctrination these
people undergo from the moment of birth, not to mention
that launching anything into North Korean airspace via any
means could (and almost certainly would be) construed as
an attack. |
|
| |
Just because the combined military might of any and all
nations inclined to do so could stomp North Korea flat does
not mean that it would be easy or a good idea. Quite a lot
of effort and expense goes into not poking this particular
bear, stunted and ridiculous bear that it may be. |
|
| |
I think maybe if you left everything stuck at the phase 1 stage, you might be more effective if you were very patient. If the government is holding onto power by withholding food, then taking that power away is probably enough to make whatever change is possible eventually happen of its own accord. At its own time. |
|
| |
The problem with taking it away is that you're now taking on a role more akin to that of the government there. Only now it's the nice neighbours who are saying, "Do my bidding or starve". You can't win a moral conflict by surrendering the moral high ground. |
|
| |
There's another way of looking at this. In a way, North Korea almost wants things to be the way they are. I mean that if they really wanted freedom, they would offer at least some resitance. Think of small things like Soviet era Russians risking their lives to get Uriah Heep or Beatles albums and so on. Maybe? Call this some Edward de Bono po. |
|
| |
from 1984. this passage and what happens next lives in the groove that it carved in my brain when I read it. |
|
| |
/The man sat down on the bench at a little distance from Winston. Winston did not look at him again, but the tormented, skull-like face was as vivid in his mind as though it had been straight in front of his eyes. Suddenly he realized what was the matter. The man was dying of starvation. The same thought seemed to occur almost simultaneously to everyone in the cell. There was a very faint stirring all the way round the bench. The eyes of the chinless man kept flitting towards the skull-faced man, then turning guiltily away, then being dragged back by an irresistible attraction. Presently he began to fidget on his seat. At last he stood up, waddled clumsily across the cell, dug down into the pocket of his overalls, and, with an abashed air, held out a grimy piece of bread to the skull- faced man./ |
|
| |
The issue of North Korea and it's people is not funny. |
|
| |
The dear leader does not have nukes. |
|
| |
I'm refraining from posting North America Food Offensive because it really is not funny. |
|
| |
//The issue of North Korea and it's people is not
funny.// |
|
| |
Well, it is a bit. Like the business with the haircuts.
And that puppet of Kim Jong Il in the Team America
movie. That was fairly funny. |
|
| |
I must admit I am intrigued by zeno's possible North
American food offensive. Could lefty continentals seduce
Texans into caring for their fellow humans by plying them
with fresh bread and real cheese? I like that experiment! |
|
| |
//The dear leader does not have nukes// |
|
| |
Really? As far as I'm aware, they've had 3 nuclear tests that we know of, two of which were in the multiple kilotonne range, and the best info available says the third test was in the 40kT range (that's a little over twice the Hirosima' bomb "little man" 's yield). That's nuclear capability in anyone's books. |
|
| |
Estimates vary, but consensus is they have enough weapons grade material for between 5 and 20 devices. |
|
| |
Sure, they don't have MIRV tipped trident-III sea-launched ballistic missiles. But they're offensive weapons. When it comes to resisting invasion - you don't really need a delivery system, or at least not a long range one. Their bombs could be fucking hand-crank operated, the size of a shipping container, and they could hide them in plain sight and fuck up any invader's day. |
|
| |
The minute they detonated a nuclear device was the minute that invasion pretty much became impractical. |
|
| |
As to the idea, I think change is inevitable, it's a bit like entropy. Every civilisation falls. The lesson history has for us is that intervention never works. never. Show me one example of well-meaning intervention into internal politics having a long term positive effect. |
|
| |
Their path forward is going to be drenched in blood whichever way it goes - there's no such thing as a bloodless revolution. I'd prefer it wasn't our blood. |
|
| |
// Show me one example of well-meaning intervention into internal politics having a long term positive effect.// Das Dritten Reich? |
|
| |
On sane people intervention works fine. It's only idiots it fails for. |
|
| |
//Show me one example of well-meaning
intervention into internal politics having a long term
positive effect.// |
|
| |
Sorry....North Korea is not interesting...it's 1984 type hate figure. Plenty of other crappy totalitarian states to fuss about. |
|
| |
From experience, quite a lot of older South Koreans are like North Koreans, hate Americans for machine-gunning refugee columns in the war and for the more recent ironing of two schoolgirls into the tarmac with a tracked vehicle, hate Russians for shooting down their jet, hate the Japanese for colonialist times. The whole peninsular is an area of Olympic-standard grudge bearing. |
|
| |
The United States Military: inflaming brushfire wars since
1962! |
|
| |
The issue isn't whether or not we can depose the NK
government, it's whether or not we want to. Right
now the consequences of that are much worse than
the status quo, so don't expect anything to happen
soon. |
|
| |
Well put. The last thing we need is another country full of
mouths to feed. |
|
| |
//The last thing we need is another country full of mouths to feed |
|
| |
Yes, that was the usual conversation in South Korea, with the Koreans. It's their problem, not yours. |
|
| |
NK is just some distraction....so why does the news media keep talking about it....since the armistice the number of fatalities in NK vs the rest of the world is in single figures. |
|
| |
It's a matter of economics, but wrongly calculated. |
|
| |
Yes, food costs less than a US military strike. |
|
| |
But, food for the entire population for years will cost
far more than the few bullets here & there by the
local government needed to keep order. |
|
| |
And, people can't "stop" doing something. They
have to "start" something to replace it. You can't
deliver democracy by dropping things from the sky,
no matter how benign. |
|
| |
//NK is just some distraction....so why does the news
media keep talking about it// because I think
everyone knows that it can only stay this way for so
long. Eventually SOMETHING has to happen, either
the North Koreans will overthrow their government or
there will be another war. How long can it stay the
way it is, another 60 years? We have that long to
figure out a solution that doesn't result in millions of
deaths. |
|
| |
If the North Korean leadership actually goes so far over the
deep end as to force a hot war it may actually solve the so-
called 'China problem' by forging a Sino-American alliance. |
|
| |
// If the North Korean leadership actually goes so far over the deep end as to force a hot war. |
|
| |
so why does the news media keep talking about it// because I think everyone knows that it can only stay this way for so long |
|
| |
It's been like this since the Armistice of 1950-whatever. |
|
| |
Top marks for weirdness was 2002 the former special forces guys from the Korean Army (South) were rioting cos their pensions got cut, beat the crap out of the riot police, from memory one of the spooks complained "We've been laying out lives on the line sneaking over the border assassinating people and blowing shit up and look at our pensions" |
|
| |
Why not? The little leader is nuttier than a chipmunk's shit, and the populace thinks he's god. Is there really anything stopping them? |
|
| |
//Top marks for weirdness ...// I don't for a minute believe that North Korea has the sole monopoly of post-armistice war crimes or aggression. |
|
| |
//Is there really anything stopping them? |
|
| |
//I don't for a minute believe that North Korea has the sole monopoly of post-armistice war crimes or aggression. |
|
| |
Erm, in the last whatever years NK related fatalities have been lower than some hick town's car accident fatality rate, so virtually everywhere in the world is more dangerous to your health than being near NK. |
|
| |
Well, this is Korean, and "food" and the smell is definitely offensive, it's the canned fried silkworms you can buy in the 7-11. See link. |
|
| |