h a l f b a k e r yI think, therefore I am thinking.
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Admittedly I know very little about Slaughterhouses, or the chemical reactions which take place in the lethal injection used in Capital punishment.
I like philosophy, and we covered species-ism at my University course recently. I believe species-ism is a problem, and I think we could definitely keep
eating meat if the process of slaughter were more humane. My argument boils down to: sure we eat meat and I don't want to give it up; yet there has to be a better way to slaughter animals for food than what exists currently!
Which brings me to my idea: humans should develop a lethal injection drug which becomes completely inert after death. The logic is; we have safer, less toxic house-hold chemicals for house cleaning today that we did twenty years ago. Why can't we create chemicals which could be injected in to animals for slaughter which don't poison the carcass which humans would later eat?
I'm sure there would be some objection from the public about this if it were ever made, some might think it could have adverse effects on humans; yet I think if created in the right way; it wouldn't!
Discuss.
Baked.
https://www.youtube...watch?v=TUvXIqWaIRA
[doctorremulac3, Oct 24 2015]
Worth looking at
https://www.faceboo.../10153458263351323/
Global warming caused by meat eaters [xenzag, Oct 24 2015]
Eating meat gives you cancer!
http://www.telegrap...rocessed-meats.html
Processed meat ranks alongside smoking as major cause of cancer, World Health Organisation says WHO publishes report listing processed meat as 'carcinogenic to humans' - the highest ranking, shared with alcohol, asbestos, arsenic and cigarettes [xenzag, Oct 26 2015]
Temple Grandin
https://www.youtube...watch?v=RoNErsJNPzw
[JesusHChrist, Oct 26 2015]
sugar death
http://www.globalhe...etest-poison-of-all
Sweet deadly gold people [travbm, Oct 30 2015]
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Animal slaughter in general is often not well done.
The systems in use, if used correctly, are supposed
not to cause suffering; but they are often used
improperly and in a way that stresses the animal a
lot. So, [+] for the idea. |
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And yes, it could certainly be done. |
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Not sure if the poster is advocating cannibalism... |
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I became a vegetarian after watching the horrendous way
the cattle were treated in the US, prior to slaughtering,
when I saw it on a newsreel. I remained one for 7 years. It
effected me that profoundly. |
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I once again eat meat, but not on a regular basis, and always
opt for plant based protein instead, when available, and
when I can. |
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I applaud your idea, and welcome your compassionate and
curious soul to the hb. Here's a bun, baked without animal
product. |
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[bliss], you're scaring him a little. |
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[Brainee] - welcome to the 'bakery. |
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The fine print in the help file (over there on the left under "meta") includes encouragement to flesh out your idea (sorry, couldn't resist) with the specifics of actually how this will be achieved. |
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Under those admittedly loose guidelines, this would fall under WIBNI, which is the initialism for " wouldn't it be nice if ". |
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You may have to do some research regarding which chemicals might support the meat of your argument. |
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Until then it's all protean. |
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Nitrogen gas asphyxiation. Cheap, widely available. |
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What [sninctown] said.. I'm withholding my mark for
deletion because you're new but god have mercy upon you if
there isn't substance in your next idea because I have none
to spare. |
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Wouldn't it be nice to eat animals with a clear conscience?
No. Animals are subject to horrendous abuse in vile factory
farms, during which they are also pumped full of
antibiotics, growth hormones etc etc. The manner of their
death is only the end point of all of that, and in that
specific regard the idea here promotes an aspect of magic.
ie wouldn't it be nice if we had this. (Read the help file)
Wouldn't it be nicer if
everyone just stopped eating meat, and became more
enlightened. In time this will be realised as more and more
become vegetarians and vegans. |
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The chemistry of this idea is apparently nontrivial. It seems that European suppliers restrict access to deathrow drugs and make it quite difficult for the Yanks to kill people efficiently. Doing so without leaving poisonous traces in the body may be asking too much (of yanks). |
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Bizarrely, I find myself half-agreeing with [xenzag].
Many modern animal husbandry practices are
abhorrent, driven by the desire for large quantities
of cheap meat. If you can buy a chicken for £1.99,
it's pretty clear that it hasn't been pampered. |
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Meat _can_ be produced humanely. I think that if
an animal is brought into existence, has a
contented life, and is then killed more or less
instantaneously and without stress or anticipation,
then that's a fair deal. |
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Indeed. I can't see anything wrong w |
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// I think that if an animal is brought into existence, has a contented life, and is then killed more or less instantaneously and without stress or anticipation, then that's a fair deal// A fair deal for whom? If you have children and this logic was applied to them, would it still be a "fair deal". What does "fair deal" mean? |
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It means that life and death is brutal in some fashion for
those not on top of the food chain and has been so since
the invention of canine teeth. |
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“Good evening," it lowed and sat back heavily on its
haunches, "I am the main Dish of the Day. May I interest you
in parts of my body? It harrumphed and gurgled a bit,
wriggled its hind quarters into a more comfortable position
and gazed peacefully at them. |
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Its gaze was met by looks of startled bewilderment from
Arthur and Trillian, a resigned shrug from Ford Prefect and
naked hunger from Zaphod Beeblebrox. |
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"Something off the shoulder perhaps?" suggested the
animal. "Braised in a white wine sauce?" |
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"Er, your shoulder?" said Arthur in a horrified whisper. |
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"But naturally my shoulder, sir," mooed the animal
contentedly, "nobody else's is mine to offer." |
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Zaphod leapt to his feet and started prodding and feeling
the animal's shoulder appreciatively. |
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"Or the rump is very good," murmured the animal. "I've
been exercising it and eating plenty of grain, so there's a
lot of good meat there." It gave a mellow grunt, gurgled
again and started to chew the cud. It swallowed the cud
again. |
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"Or a casserole of me perhaps?" it added. |
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"You mean this animal actually wants us to eat it?"
whispered Trillian to Ford. |
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"Me?" said Ford, with a glazed look in his eyes. "I don't mean
anything." |
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"That's absolutely horrible," exclaimed Arthur, "the most
revolting thing I've ever heard." |
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"What's the problem, Earthman?" said Zaphod, now
transferring his attention to the animal's enormous rump. |
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"I just don't want to eat an animal that's standing there
inviting me to," said Arthur. "It's heartless." |
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"Better than eating an animal that doesn't want to be
eaten," said Zaphod. |
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"That's not the point," Arthur protested. Then he thought
about it for a moment. "All right," he said, "maybe it is the
point. I don't care, I'm not going to think about it now. I'll
just ... er ..." |
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The Universe raged about him in its death throes. |
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"I think I'll just have a green salad," he muttered. |
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"May I urge you to consider my liver?" asked the animal, "it
must be very rich and tender by now, I've been force-
feeding myself for months." |
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"A green salad," said Arthur emphatically. |
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"A green salad?" said the animal, rolling his eyes
disapprovingly at Arthur. |
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"Are you going to tell me," said Arthur, "that I shouldn't
have green salad?" |
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"Well," said the animal, "I know many vegetables that are
very clear on that point. Which is why it was eventually
decided to cut through the whole tangled problem and
breed an animal that actually wanted to be eaten and was
capable of saying so clearly and distinctly. And here I am." |
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It managed a very slight bow. |
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"Glass of water please," said Arthur. |
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"Look," said Zaphod, "we want to eat, we don't want to
make a meal of the issues. Four rare steaks please, and
hurry. We haven't eaten in five hundred and seventy-six
thousand million years." |
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The animal staggered to its feet. It gave a mellow gurgle. |
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"A very wise choice, sir, if I may say so. Very good," it said.
"I'll just nip off and shoot myself." |
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He turned and gave a friendly wink to Arthur. |
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"Don't worry, sir," he said, "I'll be very humane." |
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//What does "fair deal" mean?// |
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That's a good question, and it is impossible to argue objectively. The
question of whether it's OK to eat animals (or, indeed, OK to do anything)
ultimately comes down to a moral stance that depends on the individual, and
can't be derived by logic. Society then acts according to the moral stance of
the majority. |
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All I can say is that my _personal_ morality is that suffering is wrong, and
causing suffering is therefore wrong. So, some intensive farming methods are
wrong because (as far as I can tell) they cause suffering. Equally, it is in
general wrong to kill a human being, because they are likely to anticipate it
(and thereby experience mental suffering), and because they will be missed
by others. |
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I believe that it is possible to raise and kill animals in such a way that they do
not experience suffering, or at least experience less suffering than most wild
animals experience. On that basis, I'm OK with eating animals, if they are
raised and killed in such a way. |
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If someone says "it's just not OK to raise and kill animals, regardless of how
it's done" - that's fine; I can't argue with that, any more than they can (or
need to) provide logical arguments to support that. |
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// Wouldn't it be nicer if everyone just stopped eating meat, and became more enlightened// |
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I'm not so sure that the two are synonymous. Has there ever been a species that went from omnivore to herbivore? |
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I had to take care of someone's 200 free-range chickens for week while they were out of town once.
By day three I'd figured out how to completely automate their hobby farm so that the chickens would be fed and watered, the floor would be self cleaning, the eggs would be collected cleaned and carton-ed.
For humanely killing and collecting chickens to eat I'd thought to have them each eat in individual cubicles with closing entrances.
The chicken eats its fill and exits the cubicle, but one or more of the cubicles contain a clamp and a quillotine. The chicken is killed and bled out humanely without release of stress hormones and the other chicken returning to the yard just wonder where Clucky went. |
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I'm sure something similar could be applied to most farmed meat. |
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// it is in general wrong to kill a human being, // |
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We are so glad you qualified that statement. |
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// because they are likely to anticipate it (and thereby experience mental suffering), // |
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In some cases, that's the point. The more suffering, the better. |
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// and because they will be missed by others // |
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*may* be missed by others. |
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Altho they can be missed in a good way, as in "Ahhh, at last we're rid of that bastard". |
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In order to participate on the carnivore side of the debate, protagoinsts shound answer the question "Have you ever been present at or participated in the death of a homiothermic life form (fish, frogs and attourneys don't count) after which you prepared, optionally cooked, and consumed same ?" |
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Most modern humans in the developed world probably haven't. The nearest they get to death is probably roadkill. |
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To advocate the consumption of meat, as long as the grim, bloody reality of its production is neatly hidden from sight of the consumer, is gross hipocracy. |
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Hydrogen cyanide inerts extremely fast after death and in fact can be undetectable after a few hours, leading to the diagnois of heart attack or other natural disease. |
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// Not sure if the poster is advocating cannibalism.. // |
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If you're looking at a poster in the street and the text says "Eat more raw human flesh !" then it probably is either (a) advocating cannibalism, or (b) advertising the latest zombie movie. |
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Nobody was advocating raw. Eww. |
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From the help file //WIBNI - "Wouldn't It Be Nice If". The invention describes something widely known as desirable, but unobtainable, without giving any new clues as to how it could be done.....// [Braineeee] - You're new here, but rules are rules, and these are the rules. [marked-for-deletion] Next time explain how your idea can actually work, and not just be an "I wish it was like this", or else add an explanation to this one. |
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[xen], I can't help feeling that you are using [mfd]
simply on the grounds that this idea relates to
something you don't endorse. |
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The guy (or woman) is advocating slaughtering
animals by lethal injection. That's more detail than
in some HB ideas. Whaddya want - the chemistry?
Give over. |
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It's marked, so decision lies with moderators. There is the
opportunity for the poster to add the necessary detail, as I
have pointed out. Why would I do that, if what you say is
true with regard to my reasoning? Silly.
(//advocating// advocacy is another reason for m-f-d by
the way) |
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Someone's a little tetchy. |
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//Wouldn't it be nicer if everyone just stopped eating meat,
and became more enlightened.// |
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If we didn't raise animals to eat they would have no lives at
all. They would never be born. Isn't a short life better than
no life? |
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//Someone's a little tetchy// That can't be pleasant for you, by contrast I'm in fine form, happy to be alive after my near death infarction! A Bottle of Guinness will help out.... drop in and have one from my fridge! |
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That is a kind offer, which I will alas decline as I am
currently in G&T mode, one of which I am happy to
offer you, though I don't think it'll sit well on the
Guinness. |
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Ah Guinness and Gin - The Dog's Nose (from The Pickwick Papers) - Better than its arse I suppose, but still don't like sound of.... |
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Would that Guinness and Gin have any memory of the last
time they were drank together? That episode didn't go
well... |
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Seems like "Less humane animal slaughter of humans" would be a good title for the idea of reducing the population levels by encouraging people to eat more meat. According to the WHO it's a toxic as asbestos!! |
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Yes, [xen], but that's clearly bollocks, and possibly
misquoted bollocks. If not, someone really ought to
mention it to lions. |
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I appreciate that you are on a single-woman crusade
to get us all to be vegetarians; out of interest, do
you get lots of people telling you to eat meat? |
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perhaps misconstruing the phrase "get stuffed". |
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// ... the idea of reducing the population levels by
encouraging people to eat more meat. According to the
WHO it's a toxic as asbestos!! // |
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They did not say that. They said that PROCESSED meat is
in the highest of 5 categories. I didn't notice a ranking
inside that category. |
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They listed fresh red meat as a possible carcinogen which
means it is almost assuredly less carcinogenic than
asbestos. |
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I didn't read enough to find out if chicken made the list at
all, but it didn't make headlines. |
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So putting // Eating meat gives you cancer! // as a title
for that link may be a little bit of an exaggeration. |
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...but on the plus side, I've just ordered 58 square
metres of veal ("a[s] toxic as asbestos!!") to line the
fireplace in the East-wing Carvery. |
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I'm beginning to wonder if there's a practical use for
foie gras. |
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Two carcinoma burgers coming up! |
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I'll have the vealburger with the foie and bacon, and
a side order of frogs' legs. |
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Actually, thinking about it, I believe that burger with
a topping of paté de foie would be awesome. After
all, the pate in Beef Wellington really makes it, and a
burger is just a more down-to-earth B.W. Thanks for
the idea, [xen]. |
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pass on the veal - tasteless. never had foie gras (that I can recall), but chicken liverwurst tastes like manure so no, and that's before reading the WP article on the stuff. |
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Alberta beef, slab thereof, burnt on the outside, still mooing on the inside, salt, pepper. |
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//never had foie gras (that I can recall)// |
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The paté is pretty good - you should try it, though
if
you don't like liver in general you might not like it.
But pan-fried foie, caramelized on the outside,
and
maybe with a little apple or pear fried in the same
pan is just indescribably amazing. There's nothing
else like which it is. But for the burger, the paté
would work well. |
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If I get around to trying this, I shall christen it the
xenburger in honour. |
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I'm also wondering what iterative foie-gras (taken from geese fed
exclusively on foie-gras) would taste like. |
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Probably a bit like anatidae spongiform encephalopathy. |
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I hope not. Bald eagle is chewy and a bit like panda. |
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Yes. You wouldn't care for the beaver then. |
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Hey, if livestock were put down using nitrous oxide then calling it an [Animals Laughter House] would be politically correct. |
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Incidentally, given the huge range of secondary
metabolites which plants synthesize in order to
defend themselves (terpenes, polyphenols,
alkaloids...), I'd be interested to see how far the
incidence of cancer can be reduced by avoiding
green plants. |
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I thought I commented on this earlier but I don't see it here. |
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You can't kill the animal with a toxin or inert gas, for the soimple reason that exanguination only really works while the animal's heart is beating. Hence the concept of stunning the animal for immediate exanguination. I mean you might be able to use tetrodotoxin or similar - but that would absolutely not pass your bar for less cruel than current methods. |
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Current methods are inhumane?! C'mon. You can't spell
“slaughter” without “laughter”! |
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Everyone's a critic. Like you can do better. |
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// staying quite some significant distance away from electromagnetic radiation // |
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Excellent advice. We will be glad to provide a capsule with walls made of alternating layers of lead, steel and concrete, and tow it out into intergalactic space. Some neutrinos may leak through but not much else. There, you can live out the remainder of your life* in a safe environment free from almost all electromagnetic radiation. |
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The service is free of charge, but you will be required to share your accomodation with a bottle of poison, a radioactive source, a trigger mechanism, and a cat in a state of quantum uncertanty**. |
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*Duration of remainder of life not guaranteed and may be considerably shorter than you expect. |
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** Cat will definitely be alive when installed. |
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Nah - the garage up the road from me has one. |
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All the old craft skills are dying out ... |
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Can I urge you, [8th], to visit the Rentisham's
museum? There you will find many venerable
traditional skills preserved and used on a daily
basis. |
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If you have never seen a man craft a combination
burler/puller from a fresh willow branch, using
nothing more than the crook of his elbow and the
point of a brining awl, it is an awe-inspiring sight.
Even the skill of hand-whissoping is as alive today
as it was two centuries ago, within the Rentisham
estate. |
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I think you should try lethal injection of honey. Honey ham anyone? |
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You would think so but have you ever heard about sugar killing animals. It was first fed to live stock to try and fatten them up. Instead they began dying off. Too much of anything can be bad for you I guess. But strait sucrose is more deadly as in crystal sugar. |
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