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I am newly returned from Malaya (or, as they tend to call
it these days, Malaysia).
Much as I love the food there, I have to say that their
butchery techniques seem to be restricted to frenzied
attacks with a machete. Every piece of meat will be
guaranteed to contain a variety of bone fragments.
Clearly, Malaysian butchers do not let something as
troublesome as anatomy interfere with their technique.
It therefore seems rather a waste of time to have
someone
in a hot country hacking dead animals up with a sharp
implement.
Much labour could be saved by simply dipping the carcass
in
liquid nitrogen and then dropping it from a height onto a
hard surface. By suitable calibration, it should be
possible
to create potroast-, curry- or mince-sized shards.
(A quick Google reveals several LN2 butchers; however,
these are all located in one region of Lincoln, UK.)
Suggesterated by:
Xylow_fcrst
[MaxwellBuchanan, Dec 10 2013]
Chef uses liquid nitrogen
http://www.huffingt...ools_n_4254687.html
[theircompetitor, Dec 11 2013]
Promession
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Promession
freeze and frak [Loris, Dec 11 2013]
Scott Jurek
http://scottjurek.com/bio/
see info below [xenzag, Dec 11 2013]
Timothy Bradely
http://cdn.onegreen...y-Jr-Vegan-Diet.jpg
lean mean fighting machine and dedicated vegan [xenzag, Dec 11 2013]
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It would be simpler to get former flint knappers to do the cuts. Anyone saying "a chip of the old block" at their works presumably gets unpaid overtime. |
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//Google reveals several LN2 butchers; however, these are all located in one region of Lincoln, UK. |
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Or just become a healthy, happy vegetarian like me, and leave the butchery to the merchants of death. I can tell people who people who eat lots of meat by their distinctive smell. (an unpleasant sickly odour that cannot be hidden) |
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[xen] - that comment was unworthy and unwelcome. Go peddle your ideas elsewhere. Your false and unwarranted sense of superiority smells far worse than a couple stray keto's. |
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//leave the butchery to the merchants of death// |
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It's truly incredible that natural selection has been
able to develop a brain that is capable of so much
navel gazing that it can even contemplate its own
value as compared to that of other life, and
consider sacrificing it. No wonder we invented
god. |
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[xenzag] I'm all for living directly of sunlight or
fusion as we spread out into the galaxy, but until
we lose our corporeal form, steak tastes damn
good. |
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I also recalled seeing the linked video some
months ago |
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//by their distinctive smell// |
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That's either a latent herbivore defense mechanism or a synesthetic reaction to the sounds of carnivores, unconsciously smacking their lips together and dealing with a bit more saliva when in close quarters with a vegetarian. |
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Well, to be honest, if someone were to eat predominantly meat, to the point of ketosis, then you could probably smell them. It's an oily, rank smell that is quite distinctive. People on crash diets, specifically ketosis diets, and/or with metabolic disorders can actually be smelled. The point is, any carbohydrate intake will rapidly halt ketosis - it is not "normal" at all, as well as the fact that you could and can induce ketosis on a plant-only protein diet as well... It's not meat, it's protein metabolism that produces the ketones. |
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Additionally, if one were that way inclined, you could probably tell the difference, with practice, between the excreta of carnivorous, omnivorous, and herbivorous people - and probably their flatulence as well. |
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...But [xen]'s comment was intended to be malicious, and superior. I very much doubt [xen] comes across many people in hard ketosis such as they could be smelled in normal social contact, and I am absolutely certain that [xen] can't tell IF someone eats any meat at all, just by smell. Whilst the term "lots of" was included in the comment, the implication was that meat eaters stink. Which is stupid, and incorrect. |
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An interesting comparison is to point to the diet of the native Inuit peoples, which for much/all of the time consisted completely of flesh and fat. They were in a constant, complete state of ketosis. And were quite healthy that way to boot, from what I understand. |
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Mightn't the freezing process affect the quality of the
meat, though? Perhaps a more effective technique
would be to partition the carcass by means of
implanted explosives. Done correctly, the slaughter,
butchering, and cooking of the animal could all be
completed in one swell foop. |
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[xen] if it keeps you happy, the same approach can
be used to shatter tofu. And I am not going to stoop
low enough to comment on bodily odours amongst
those who subsist on beans and cabbage. |
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I'm sceptical about this one. My gut feeling* is that meat is a pretty good insulator and so some time after dropping a carcass into liquid Nitrogen the middle will still be unfrozen.
* I have some guts here which I am feeling, to gauge their insulating properties. |
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//some time after dropping a carcass into liquid
Nitrogen the middle will still be unfrozen// |
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Yes, true. But after some more time it will not.
Perhaps someone with a recently-deceased hamster
could start a small-scale study. |
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Back to the idea - I believe that some countries butcher this way because they don't want to lose a precious ounce of meat. We the wasteful will throw away a chicken butt whereas some one from a poorer nation would relish that tasty morsel. |
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I'd sort of agree with [xan], except that the
chainsaw-butchery phenomenon applies even to
food prepared for fairly well-off diners. |
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I am now seriously considering investigating what
happens when a small, deeply-frozen mammal is hit
with a hammer. I have the liquid nitrogen and the
hammer. |
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/an unpleasant sickly odour that cannot be hidden/ |
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I assumed that all humans smelled that way, but the strong garlic and cumin odor of vegetarians did hide it. Or possibly complement it. |
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I saw a programme on TV early this year about dealing with cadavers. For some reason some group reckoned freezing them solid was a good part of the disposal pathway.
It must have been "Bang goes the theory", because Jem did an experiment with a pork chop. The idea was to freeze it solid, vibrate to pieces then freeze-dry.
Quite why you'd go to all that trouble wasn't obvious. Um, see link. |
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Anyway, Jem's demonstration proves that it's possible to freeze meat then pulverise it. You'd need to immerse rather than dip in your liquid nitrogen, but there's obviously a length of time within which full solidification can reliably be attained. |
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//I am now seriously considering investigating what happens when a small, deeply-frozen mammal is hit with a hammer//
This is interesting, because there's an argument that says it won't work because the small animal is non-homogeneous or fibrous or something - i.e. it has the same properties which make pykrete stronger than ice. Having said that, I've seen several things (rubber bouncy balls, flowers, etc.) shatter like glass after being frozen and then dropped on a hard floor, so I'd be fascinated to see if this would work. Can I suggest the cheapest way to do this is to buy a (dead) whole wild rabbit from your nearest butcher (about £5 at my butcher) and use that? |
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//and I am absolutely certain that [xen] can't tell IF someone eats any meat at all, just by smell// I can tell even by the way they walk. |
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It's the running that gives it away. The world's greatest ultra runner Scott Jurek is a vegan, and so are many of his rivals. "On his first attempt, in 2005, he set a course record in the Badwater Ultramarathon, 135 miles through the 130 degree heat of Death Valley." Want to stay fit and healthy and have a long energised life? Keep away from a diet full of meat. My opposition to the killing of animals is relentless for many reasons and I see no reason not to make those points here. I'm used to the opposing voices. They just make me laugh. |
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Take that one up with WBO boxing champion Timothy Bradley, who is a dedicated vegan. |
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Well, this all well and good, and I am happy to
lend [xen] my soapbox*. |
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However, given the title of this idea, this is a bit
like walking into a vegan restaurant and
complaining that there's no foie gras on the menu.
I think we can safely say that this idea is aimed at
people who like meat, liquid nitrogen, or both. |
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(*Of course, if you'd eaten your steak when you
were a kid, you wouldn't need to stand on a
soapbox.) |
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People only came here to watch a chicken shatter. |
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I read that as being the past tense of "chicken
shitter". |
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In most humans the leg design and overall running efficiency appears tuned to endurance hunting, that is running an ungulate until it can no longer run away, then killing it. It does not appear that our capacity to sprint or sustain speed was much influenced by pressure to escape predation. The invention of pointy things seems to have been the killer app against all predation. |
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//We the wasteful will throw away a chicken butt
whereas some one from a poorer nation would
relish that tasty morsel.// |
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Not really. American slaughterhouses are
extremely efficient at recovering meat, with
almost nothing going to waste. Much of the
recovered stuff may end up in pet food or
fertilizer, or what have you, but it is not wasted. |
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As far as [xenzag] being a self righteous argument
against vegetarianism, that's another story. Yes, a
carefully constructed vegetarian diet is healthier.
But for that matter, a carefully constructed diet
period is healthier than what most people,
vegetarian or omnivore eat. |
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Yes, cutting out meat is better for the
environment, but so is reducing your
consumption, or buying local, or switching a
couple of meals from beef to chicken. |
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Yes, animals are living creatures. So what. I've
interacted with cows, and sheep, and chickens,
and none of them would be alive without human
intervention, so choosing not to raise them for
food isn't a kindness, it's basically calling for
extinction. (Pigs
are an exception, they are actually intelligent and
able to survive in the wild, but they simply taste
to good not to eat.) The same goes for most game
animals. Since we've already killed off their natural
predators, we have to step in or watch them
starve by the thousands every winter. |
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As far as athletes, take your pick. Usain Bolt eats
chicken nuggets in bulk; Phelps goes through eggs,
cheese, and meat in huge quantities. Both the
men's and women's Iron Man Championship record
holders are omnivores. |
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Put simply, if you really oppose the consumption
of animals, for whatever reason, you're going to do
far better if you marshal reasonable arguments,
discuss it in a friendly and non-condescending
manner, and perhaps accept compromises. After
all the net result's the same if you convince seven
people to eliminate meat one day a week as if you
convince one to go vegetarian. |
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//Put simply, if you really oppose the consumption
of animals, for whatever reason, you're going to do
far better if you...// |
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...don't start out by wandering into a debate about
the merits of liquid nitrogen as a butchering tool. |
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In order to break up those really tough, grisly pieces of
meat, I'd suggest immersing them in liquid hydrogen. Once
fully immersed in a pot of liquid H simply place the pot
over a low flame. Voila! Instantly puréed and cooked
mince. (if you can find it and are still capable of caring.) |
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If you fed the animal on a high-glycerol diet shortly
before LN2 exposure, you could probably market
"viable suspended tissue" rather than "meat". It's
gotta be fresh if it's still capable of a contractile
response to the appropriate electrical stimuli. |
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