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Formalize this contest which has actually been going on for a long time. Talk about a Jackson Pollock painting in a way that makes you look smarter than everybody else.
This isn't a joke, this would basically be a poetry contest. Four of five contestants stand beside the actual picture at the art
gallery and in turn, begin their entry. The crowd votes at the end. Winner gets some patio furniture or a trip to Orlando.
So for the linked splatter, my entry would be:
"Everything he does flies in the face of the objective. This reaches into hitherto uncharted depth of nuance veiled in disregard for convention but seasoned with parables and allegories of the metaphor seasoned by the id, the psyche, the quest for universal cognizance of all ideations of human phaseiality. This grand elucidation of the ironic, the untethered, the incohesive, all ground up and thrown in the face of us, the plebeian swaths, mored in our rules and dictates, tied to our logic and ratiocination, tethered to our evolutionary imperatives, to simply live, love, and strive towards the superlative while making our way through the great conundrum of existence."
Translation: "The Emperor's New Clothes personified. Not only is this crap, but boy was this guy an asshole."
That's my entry into the contest to comment on this:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No._5,_1948
[doctorremulac3, Oct 12 2024]
And by the way, THIS is abstract art...
https://store.phila...aircase-no-2-print/
[doctorremulac3, Oct 12 2024]
THIS is a scam.
https://artsandcult...lock/rgFoAwFLiZvHqQ
[doctorremulac3, Oct 12 2024]
Little bit of "art" history.
https://daily.jstor...eally-a-cia-psy-op/
[doctorremulac3, Oct 12 2024]
On Marketing
https://www.youtube...watch?v=ZtCG-Jo51d4
[Voice, Oct 12 2024]
Beauty is in the mind
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=902YXjchQsk
[xenzag, Oct 13 2024]
When a "conceptual" artist tries that shit with the lowly prole's beloved art-form.
https://www.youtube...watch?v=qCFJsnUyzJg
[doctorremulac3, Oct 13 2024]
Metal Guitar
https://makebestmus...9-a313-a6b033d94f0c
[theircompetitor, Oct 14 2024]
AI Art Turing Test
https://docs.google...xlBDms9CzQ/viewform
Put your money where your mouth is [Loris, Oct 14 2024]
[link]
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..but that didn't sound smart. Let me try: The smooth transition of the piece from the partially circumvented base denoted by the broader splatters at sectors B4, C6, C7, and D9 offer a twinned comparison between this piece and Golden Toilet and this piece and Edward's Shining Tarantula without compromising as so many others do in shaped glimmer through the change. This opens a new point of view from the Open Perspective and is really a genius way of showing the archtype without over-promising. |
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I think we've argued this out before on this site. It's not that the question doesn't matter; it does: it's just that, I think we've exhausted what the assembled 'bakers have to say on the subject, and maybe should move on, or risk repeating ourselves in an endless loop of mutual resentment. |
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(I mean, I *might* be able to add something, but it would consist of a long and probably boring history-of-ideas lecture, with lots of homework, and I don't think it would make this site more fun. Anyone who really wants to hear it can contact me at the poorly-obfuscated email address on my profile page.) |
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Anyone could write that about "work that anyone could do" |
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Nobody ever looked at an Escher or a Dali and said “anyone could do that.” |
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//Nobody ever looked at an Escher or a Dali and said “anyone could do that.”// |
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I think this is an important point. There are some things which are just obviously impressive.
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I'm not going to enter this contest. However, with regard to Jackson Pollock, I have heard that many people have tried to replicate his style, and found it to be much more difficult than they thought. I have heard similar with other artists people have said that about. |
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When it comes down to it, I think if people appreciate a piece of art, maybe we should just let them enjoy it. If they can't explain /why/ exactly... well, that's fine. I've been in that situation myself. I think the problem only arises if they then start insulting people who don't feel the same. |
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Loris, thank you for saying that because I was going to wrap this up with an un-expected twist: |
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If this DOES come down to a contest, and one person gets joy from something, and another person does NOT get joy from that something, WHATEVER it is, who's won? |
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A person who actually enjoys a Jackson Pollock painting has actually gotten something out of life that I didn't. |
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(except for the fact that I got a lot more fun by ragging on it and people who comment on it using words like "exemplifies") |
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Gets complicated don't it? :) |
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And let's be clear, if the goal is getting attention, and certainly art does NOTHING if it doesn't achieve that first step, that person strapping a banana to a canvas got people to notice. Even eliciting discussion could be considered successful, and if that's the metric you're going by, we're not discussing any of Bob Ross's painting are we? So who's the more successful artist by that measure eh? |
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This gives me another idea, "Critic Rating". Do they have that for movie review sites like Rotten Tomatoes? If not they should. |
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//Nobody ever looked at an Escher or a Dali and said “anyone could do that.”// So that's your criteria then? ie that the ability to do something makes it a good piece of work..... ie a measure of the perceived degree of difficulty. Why not just say that instead of trashing people like Jackson Pollock who was actually a formidable person totally dedicated and rigorous in a disciplined methodology. No one has to like anyone's work, but respect for their practice costs nothing. |
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That's ironic, you telling me the "appropriate" criterion for judging art "properly". |
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I've had many art teachers through my childhood and they were all nuts except one. We were working with clay and I rolled one piece into a cone, and slapped it over the edge of the table so it looked like a rat taking a dump over a cliff. Everybody laughed (we were little kids) and started making cliff dump rats, putting stories behind them, mine was named "Turdliac" or something, then the teacher walked over and said "What you got there?" and everybody got quiet like "Oh shoot, we're busted goofing off." and I sheepishly described how we all had these rats taking a dump off the side of a cliff and he said, to our suprise "No! Boys! That's awesome! This is what art is! It's about being creative and having fun! I know you thought you were being naughty but you were actually doing exactly what I want you to do! Break the rules! This is art!” I took that to heart. I think of art this way, we have so many rules in life we have to follow, art is the one place where we can go nuts. |
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That guy always stuck with me maybe more than any lesson any teacher's ever given me. |
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Previously I had won first place in a city art contest for kids with a piece called "Birds Of A Feather" that consisted of a bunch of wildly crazy looking birds that were totally dissimilar except for the fact that they all had feathers. I had just moved from a mostly black community to a mostly white community and I pointed out that though we might look different we're still the same and I think they liked that. Plus it was pretty surrealistic looking for an 8 year old. I remember I just wanted them all to look different. Although in retrospect they might have just been trying to be nice to the kid from the ghetto. |
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Anyway, I'm a big supporter of art in schools, but I'm afraid most art teachers, rather than teaching rebellion, risk, and self determination are teaching mindless adherence and vowing fealty to the prescribed mindset, like "You must like splatter paintings or you are inferior." I'm afraid this is why art being taught in schools is under siege, parents say "They're teaching you you have to like that crap and you're stupid if you don't?". |
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But just to wrap up the JP thing, I think the amount of people who lost respect for art in general because if this guy is pretty tragic. And if that didn't do the trick, people coming along and saying "You're just too dumb to get it." really put the final nail in that coffin. |
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That # 5 piece looks like the insulation we use in parts of cars that nobody sees. |
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//I'm afraid most art teachers, rather than teaching rebellion, risk, and self determination are teaching mindless adherence// agreed 100% - see last link for someone “who just painted grids - sure anyone could do that” |
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This is celebration of status, a differentiation between the lowly proles who are "too dumb to get it" and the elites who see the emperor's new clothes clearly. This stuff is a parody of the values of the serfs who value skill and hard work, these instruments of survival they need to get through life. It's the maxim of the common man, "Making something people are willing to pay for is hard and can require blood, sweat, toil and tears." and when they see somebody applying the same hard fought work ethic into a skill designed to entertain, be it painting, singing or playing a sport they appreciate that. |
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This is a FU to those values and a celebration of the differentiation of classes: those who are enlightened versus those who keep the lights on. |
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That being said, it does get people to talk. Guess it's a bit of a Rorschach test. My reaction would be: "God damn! Lazy ass arrogant elitists suck!" whereas this poor gal had this reaction: |
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"I remember being a student and sitting in front of a Agnes Martin painting at the Modern Art Museum of Vancouver, I stared at that painting for almost 30 minutes and started crying. I don't know what made me cry, I had never cried because of a painting before. After, months later, I would understand that the tears had been in my mind all that time, and her painting released them." |
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Hope she got some help and is alright. |
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That being said, I want all these things in a free society. |
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to be honest, Rothko had more hutzpah |
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Huh, just reading about the Rothko effect. |
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You know, I don't know if there's any actual controversy here, art appreciation is subjective, and to be honest I know the main reason I like going to art galleries is the relaxing atmosphere, nice lighting, they're often in palatial buildings. Kind of don't care if it's a banana taped to the wall or not. |
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And who's to say the artist that slapped a canvas with one stroke and called it "Euripides At Twilight" wouldn't be delighted by my mumbling "What the fuck is this piece of shit?" |
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The creators of expensive "art" probably get together every now & then, & laugh amongst themselves.
"People actually pay us for the stuff we produce! We're purposefully make it worse & worse, just to see if we can find the limit, but they just keep buying it! Ha ha!" |
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Oh it’s blatant, that’s the whole point. And the product they sell is elitism. A purposefully horribly work created so people can use it as a cudgel to beat down other people by saying they’re more sophisticated, have greater perception, insight, intelligence and exist on a higher social strata because they see a long list of virtues where the commoner sees a filthy drop cloth. |
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There simply is no better illustration of The Emperor’s New Clothes axiom in real life than this. |
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I'm doing a lot of work with Midjourney and Dal-E. AI excels at surrealist imaging, exactly as you would expect. And is shockingly good at music (see link, words are mine). |
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hahaha - that depends on what you mean by "good". This definitely is a case of "anyone could do that" |
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This is a very interesting age. It seems like AI can do everything, but I use the football analogy when giving my thoughts on if it would replace art. |
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For instance, I listened to that song to hear your lyrics, not for the song which I knew was AI therefore didn't really touch me because there wasn't a human element. |
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So to use the football analogy, would you watch a football game if it were played by robots? Maybe for a minute out of curiosity, but being no human element involved, there's no attraction. There's human drama down there on the field that draws us. |
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That being said, as I've said before, whenI had a manual skill that was replaced by computers when I was a kid, being a draftsman with pencils, drafting table, straight edges, sandpaper, etc. that job just vanished, at least using the old tools. Although fine artists that actually do something requiring talent might get fans (the splatter art grift is dead other than the historical ones that are basically investment tokens like Bitcoin) I think the the job of graphic artist is as dead as my old job as draftsman. That is, somebody who would get hired to draw a car parked in a field with a family having a picnic next to it for a car ad. Click on your AI program, describe the scene and you get it basically for free. I showed my robo bee. Would have been several thousand dollars done by a human. |
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So talent is still interesting but just illustrating something for business, that's gone. |
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But to repeat myself, artists that can make something interesting somehow are still have their place. What is that something that's interesting? That's the challenge for the artist. |
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By the way, just to wrap my memory lane thing on having a skill I worked on for years taken from me, I was the first person I knew of using a computer to do my drawings, so I was actually very stoked about the change. I'd bring the blueprints to the planning or building department and their eyes would open wide and they'd say stuff like "You drew this!?" We'd have a little discussion about the future of drafting then I'd do my whole lobbying for approval thing. |
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And at the risk of doing something that's backfired a hundred times before, I'll say something nice to xenzag. I think creativity such as is his calling will still have its place. |
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I'll probably be sorry I said that because I guess kind gestures get taken as a sign of weakness and foments a slew of attacks, but I'll speak the truth regardless of consequences sometimes. |
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And eh, I don't mind attacks, as long as it's understood that I'll fight back, I'll just never start it. Been kind of peaceful around here lately, hopefully that'll be the new trend. Hope springs eternal. |
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Anyway, point is, I like some of your art xenzag, I don't think computers are going to replace stuff like that. It's the human element that's the draw, (no pun intended) not the end product as such. |
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So to wrap this up with the football analogy, watching a quarterback throw a ball 70 yards while getting tackled and the receiver jumping 4 feet in the air while running to catch it, that's entertaining. A robot throwing a football 500 yards and another one jumping 10 feet to catch it? Zzzzzzz. It's the human element that attracts us. |
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And to wrap up the wrap, the now exposed Jackson Pollock splatter art grift is dead. |
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If you didn't know it was AI you might not consider it smoke on the water, but you might think it's at least at the level of a decent bar band. That's shocking |
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As to the human element, is debatable at least on performance. I imagine a Mozart score can be performed just as well by an AI as an orchestra maybe better. Is definitely slippery. |
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Music is already mostly sampling. AI makes art like sampling. Writing is not there yet, it can do business letters and spam, and it can write a poem, but it can't write a "poem," but it probably won't take too long to get there |
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//but just illustrating something for business, that's gone.// Au contraire - I'm involved in some high level design work where I live (have won several major European awards in last 5 years) and we definitely use illustrators and not ai bots. I have a deep and lasting engagement with one of Europe's leading art colleges and we see our illustration students experiencing great success with their work and not being threatened by ai technology. You see clients want to have a personal relationship and connection with their designers/illustrators. A box of wires attached to a screen and a keyboard is never going to replace meeting with a real person and exchanging/discussing ideas/refining an outcome in an iterative process. That's what I experience, and some of the clients are from multi million pound industries - Diageo being one example. |
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To me the issue with AI illustration is mostly translation. AI struggles with really simple composition challenges, for example. Red Riding Hood and the wolf? No problem. Same picture but Red chasing the wolf? 30 minute struggle |
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But if you have ideas and are persistent you will get it to do what you want. Yes a human illustrator might get there quicker, but much more expensively. |
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I actually posted a poem (lyric) written by AI earlier. Was creepy in how passible it was but the "Who cares what a bot creates?" thing still applies. At least for me. |
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Now as far has humans being replaced for non-creative graphic arts jobs, we're not there yet, this is the very beginning of this technology, like the first few seconds. |
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Ten years you won't be able to tell the difference between a human artist you're describing the job to and a bot. That's my guess anyway. But let me be clear, this is non creative graphics, where the person just wants for instance, a robot honey bee. If they want some creativity that's going to click with humans, gonna want to hire a human. |
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I'd also be nervous being a low level coder or law clerk. That's DEFINATELY something computers can do way better than people. |
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Whoa! Cool link L. Okay, I'm gonna guess ALL of them are AI. Won't put the results up so others can play. |
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By chance I came across this "AI art Turing test" today. |
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I think taking it is instructive. I think everyone who says AI art is soulless or obviously inferior should put their money where their mouth is and do it, to prove they know what they're talking about. Anyone who doesn't do this... well, you'll have missed your chance and we'll know your claims mean nothing. Be quick - you've only got until Monday 21st October. |
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note - you don't get the answers on completion. You'll need to copy-paste this list into notepad, and add either H for human or A for AI BEFORE YOU SUBMIT. Please put your answer between the colon and semicolon on each line - that way I'll be able to parse it easily, and you won't need to add halfbakery-formatting newlines or anything. |
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Angel Woman: ;
Saint In Mountains: ;
Blue Hair Anime Girl: ;
Girl In Field: ;
Double Starship: ;
Bright Jumble Woman: ;
Cherub: ;
Praying In Garden: ;
Tropical Garden: ;
Ancient Gate: ;
Green Hills: ;
Bucolic Scene: ;
Anime Girl In Black: ;
Fancy Car: ;
Greek Temple: ;
String Doll: ;
Angry Crosses: ;
Rainbow Girl: ;
Creepy Skull: ;
Leafy Lane: ;
Ice Princess: ;
Celestial Display: ;
Mother And Child: ;
Fractured Lady: ;
Giant Ship: ;
Muscular Man: ;
Minaret Boat: ;
Purple Squares: ;
People Sitting: ;
girl in white: ;
Riverside Cafe: ;
Serene River: ;
Turtle House: ;
Still Life: ;
Wounded Christ: ;
White Blob: ;
Weird Bird: ;
Ominous Ruin: ;
Vague Figures: ;
Dragon Lady: ;
White Flag: ;
Woman Unicorn: ;
Rooftops: ;
City[parisian?] Street: ;
Pretty Lake: ;
Landing Craft: ;
Flailing Limbs: ;
Colorful Town: ;
Mediterranean Town: ;
Punk Robot: ;
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Post your answer list to this page, and I'll collate them before reporting the answers after that.
Please do also say what your favourite image, or images are. |
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Oh, also, if you recognise an image, please note that at the bottom, and I'll exclude it from your results. You should still say what it is inline - I won't count it for your score either way, but if you're wrong I'll mention it separately as a misrecognised image. |
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Put me down for all AI please. The thing asked a lot of questions like "Do you consider yourself an art expert?" and I'd say "Holy beeboo jibber jabbers do I!" Then it asked why and I said "Because I do that brain thinky thang where I be all smartin' n stuff and I'm like, a geeneuous n whatever." |
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//Put me down for all AI please.// |
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Then you'd be about half wrong, doc. It's a genuine test, not a trick. You're not the first to think that, though. |
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It's not my doing either, in case you're wondering. |
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Okay, I'll try it again. The AI ones are reaaaaalllly obvious, waaaay too much detail, not not even worth doing for a human. |
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I'll hit this later, good stuff. |
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Eh, I'll do the first twenty now and come back to it. |
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Angel Woman: ; AI
Saint In Mountains: ; HUMAN
Blue Hair Anime Girl: ; HUMAN
Girl In Field: ; HUMAN
Double Starship: ; AI
Bright Jumble Woman: ; AI
Cherub: ; HUMAN
Praying In Garden: ; HUMAN
Tropical Garden: ; HUMAN
Ancient Gate: ; AI
Green Hills: ; HUMAN
Bucolic Scene: ; HUMAN
Anime Girl In Black: ; AI
Fancy Car: ; AI
Greek Temple: ; HUMAN
String Doll: ; AI
Angry Crosses: ; HUMAN
Rainbow Girl: ; AI
Creepy Skull: ; HUMAN
Leafy Lane: ; HUMAN
Ice Princess: ; AI
Celestial Display: ; HUMAN
Mother And Child: ; AI
Fractured Lady: ; HUMAN
Giant Ship: ; AI
Muscular Man: ; HUMAN
Minaret Boat: ; AI
Purple Squares: ; HUMAN
People Sitting: ; HUMAN
girl in white: ; HUMAN
Riverside Cafe: ; HUMAN
Serene River: ; HUMAN
Turtle House: ; AI
Still Life: ; HUMAN
Wounded Christ: ; HUMAN
White Blob: ; HUMAN
Weird Bird: ; AI
Ominous Ruin: ; HUMAN
Vague Figures: ; HUMAN
Dragon Lady: ; AI
White Flag: ; HUMAN
Woman Unicorn: ; HUMAN
Rooftops: ; HUMAN
City[parisian?] Street: ; HUMAN
Pretty Lake: ; HUMAN
Landing Craft: ; HUMAN
Flailing Limbs: ; HUMAN
Colorful Town: ; HUMAN
Mediterranean Town: ; HUMAN
Punk Robot: ; HUMAN
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The only ones I'm 100% sure on are these being AI: |
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Double Starship
Ancient Gate
Anime Girl In Black
Fancy Car
String Doll
Rainbow Girl
Ice Princess
Giant Ship
Minaret Boat
Turtle House
Dragon Lady
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Angel Woman:AI ;
Saint In Mountains:Human ;
Blue Hair Anime Girl:AI ;
Girl In Field:Human ;
Double Starship:Human ;
Bright Jumble Woman:AI ;
Cherub:Human ;
Praying In Garden:Human ;
Tropical Garden:Human ;
Ancient Gate:AI ;
Green Hills:Human;
Bucolic Scene:AI ;
Anime Girl In Black:AI ;
Fancy Car:AI ;
Greek Temple:AI ;
String Doll:Human ;
Angry Crosses:Human ;
Rainbow Girl:Human ;
Creepy Skull: AI;
Leafy Lane:AI ;
Ice Princess:AI ;
Celestial Display:Human ;
Mother And Child:AI ;
Fractured Lady:Human ;
Giant Ship:Human ;
Muscular Man:Human ;
Minaret Boat:Human ;
Purple Squares:AI ;
People Sitting:Human ;
girl in white:Human ;
Riverside Cafe:Human ;
Serene River:AI ;
Turtle House:Human ;
Still Life:Human ;
Wounded Christ:AI ;
White Blob:AI ;
Weird Bird:AI ;
Ominous Ruin:Human ;
Vague Figures:Human ;
Dragon Lady:Human ;
White Flag:Human;
Woman Unicorn:Human ;
Rooftops:Human ;
City[parisian?] Street:AI ;
Pretty Lake:AI ;
Landing Craft:Human ;
Flailing Limbs:Human ;
Colorful Town:AI ;
Mediterranean Town:AI ;
Punk Robot:human ;
Sorry, I don't remember what I put for Mediterranean Town. |
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Ah, I see I can load it again. IIRC I put AI with very low confidence, due to it being so simple a rodent with a drinking problem could conceptualize it. As to that, the concepts and selection of which is chosen even for the AI art are human, so the most difficult part still isn't done by AI for any of them even if the actual painting is. |
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Doc, Voice, I have your answers. |
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"I don't like (fill in the blank) art" isn't even an original idea, let alone a half-baked one. |
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Well, it's a contest to see who can make the most impressive commentary, praising or deriding, doesn't matter as long as it gets votes from the audience. |
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My entry started off by sounding like I was giving it high praise then flipped at the end. |
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The criticism itself should become the artform on display. Which then gets criticized... by artists... |
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I see a performance artpiece where a child paints a typical watercolor, and the performance artist harrangues or praises the resultant piece with nonsensical high-sounding art-speak while it's being produced. |
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Aw, I was looking forward to mocking you for having five of the same comment up due to a technological malfunction beyond your control. |
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Yeah that was weird. Page kept spinning. |
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How about it, everyone else? Wasn't there someone around here who insisted some art has a hidden genius that only an educated person like him or herself could see? Surely such a person wouldn't believe a computer could make something of equivalent quality. |
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If there were a person like that and he or she failed to take this test it would invalidate his or her claims. That wouldn't be desirable at all...? |
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