h a l f b a k e r yCeci n'est pas une idée.
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Human drinks alcoholic drink
Alcohol enters metabolic system
Human gets drunk
Reason for Human to be sober
Problem: takes time for metabolic pathways to remove alcohol from system
Proposition: backpack mounted blood circulation system holds an equal amount of blood as human body. In normal
operation, blood circulation is regulated to ensure backpack reservoir is constantly refreshed and circulated. At the start of a drinking session, the interface valves are shut. now the human can drink until they are sloshed, retaining a whole body's worth of alcohol free blood in the backpack unit. To sober up, simply (a) stop drinking, and (b) adjust the valves to extract the alcoholic blood and replace with alcohol-free blood.
Alcohol metabolism doubling with Dinitrophenol
https://reader.else...tion=20220622151050
[bs0u0155, Jun 22 2022]
[link]
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Bit of a mishap at the pub last night. Blood everywhere ...
so much blood! |
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Where does one... obtain such a quantity of type-compatible human
blood? |
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A... type-compatible human? Preferably more than 1, but do
what you gotta do... |
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If it were a call-in service you could call it Dial-Assist. |
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*Slowly rolls up newspaper while side-eyeing 2 fries* |
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It would be a whole lot safer, easier, and more realistic to have something that filters the alcohol out of the blood and returns it a bit at a time. |
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//type-compatible human blood// |
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Given reptilian* patience, surely you could achieve this by
regular self-donation over a long period. If we go with six
donations a year, of a little under half a litre each, to get
to five litres in total, the job is done inside two years. |
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No, wait; I read now that platelets in donated blood are
only good for 5 days, and red cells for 42 days. So, yes, it
looks as if you would have to go full Elizabeth Bathory to
maintain this device in working order. |
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... unless the valves could somehow keep the platelets and
red cells inside the body while letting the fluid go through
into the reserve tank. Hmm; we wouldn't want a sludge of
red cells, etc, to build up at the valve, so, maybe, instead
of being kept inside the body, they could be strained out of
the alcoholised fluid just outside the body, and fast-tracked
around the circuit to the re-entry point in a harmless saline
carrying fluid. |
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Why not have 2 separate circuits? One for the brain
and second for the body? Brain is drunk while body
is sober. Flip the two circuits with a switch, let your
liver filter out alcohol and repeat |
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[ixnaum]; that's pretty clever. Not sure about the volume
balance, or the effect duration of any alcohol that's passed
beyond the blood into the brain itself (not a drinker OR a
doctor, so don't know if that's even a thing...). |
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//takes time for metabolic pathways to remove alcohol
from system// |
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It does. But it's understood, and manipulating this is the
way to go. |
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Swapping out blood, even with your own blood is tricky,
expensive and dangerous. It would help, but not
completely. Alcohol wanders around fairly freely. So it's in
every part of the body, it even likes the membranes/fats
somewhat. Swapping the blood gets you probably 10%.
Dialysis would work better. But Dialysis has problems,
problems that are a bit like a week long hangover. |
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The clever way, might be to go with a metabolic + dialysis
like system. We know the metabolism of alcohol well. We
know the bottlenecks (fnar!). Ethanol is metabolised to
acetaldehyde by alcohol dehydrogenase. This is followed by
acetaldehyde to acetate by ALDH2. This reaction is another
dehydrogenase reaction. Both need to get rid of the H+, so
they use a cofactor NAD+>NADH. |
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The limiting factor here is the NAD+ gets used up and we
have a large pool of NADH to get rid of. NADH is a fuel-type
intermediate, a reducing agent, like fat, sugar etc, we
need to do something with it. The liver pulls 2 main tricks
in the alcohol adapted liver to achieve this. 1. It makes fat.
By taking something quite reducing and making something
VERY reduced out of it, you get a net oxidizing effect,
giving you some of your NAD+ pool back. The downside is a
fatty liver. 2. The other trick, which half of alcohol
research still thinks is a problem, is a clever little enzyme
called Cytochrome p4502e1. This dangerous little fellow
can react with O2. Not many enzymes can. But, by doing
that, it takes alcohol directly and makes H2O2 out of it,
this then ultimately consumes NADH into NAD+. It uses the
problem molecule to solve the problem, with a slightly
worrying reactive oxygen species intermediate. |
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What you could do, is build an alcohol-burning immobilized
enzyme chain and do very limited dialysis with that. You'd
need ADH, ALDH2 NAD+ and a way of regenerating NAD+
from the NADH. I'd suggest the water-generating NADH
oxidase from whatever bacterial species it was found in. |
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You'd still have a good amount of acetate around (the mix
of acetate and acetaldehyde is the smell on someone's
breath, alcohol doesn't smell like that). Acetate is a ketone
body that's burned in mitochondria around the body. You
CAN accelerate that. Dinitrophenol is your answer there. Or
a whole body ice water dunk, or both. |
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>a whole body ice water dunk will encourage ketone metabolism
How? |
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You need heat, fast. Shivering is one mechanism, that's just
firing a muscle - letting a load of ions equalize, and then burn
fuel in mitochondria to to put them back repeatedly, the by-
product being heat. Acetate is a perfectly acceptable
substrate for that. The other method, in brown fat, is
mitochondria short circuit/uncouple deliberately. They pump
protons up a gradient, and they just slip back down. The futile
circuit uses NADH and acetate is a perfectly acceptable
substrate to replenish that. |
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//One for the brain and second for the bod// |
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If the circuit for the brain doesn't extend at least as far as
the lungs, then ebriety will be the least of your problems. |
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//complicated biophysics//
Teach me, master |
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It's not biophysics, that's a whole underappreciated area of its
own. This is just straight metabolism. |
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//It's not biophysics... This is just straight metabolism.//
I fail to discern the difference. |
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So after a binge of drinking the acetate isn't confined to my liver but is in my bloodstream and enough exercise will make it go away faster? Part of a hangover cure is five minutes in a freezer or twenty minutes pumping iron? |
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Would a hot bath not speed up the metabolism more than a cold bath? |
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I mean, sure you're causing muscles to shiver and burn fuel in a cold bath, but blood flow slows. |
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//acetate isn't confined to my liver but is in my
bloodstream// |
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It's dissolved in all the body's water. Blood, lymph, all other
extracellular fluids and all the water inside cells. Its one of
the molecules the body can't really control the movement
of. We have individual channels and transporters for water,
sodium/ potassium/ magnesium/ calcium ions, fatty acids,
amino acids etc. |
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Blood flow is unimportant, or at least peripheral bloodflow.
Jump in ice water for a while and measure your
heat/respiration rate. At an absolute maximum, it can
approach 3000 calories/hour. |
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Generating heat is the biggest energy sink in most mammals,
particularly related to small size like shrews. Humans are
quite big and we heat our environments. |
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Humans in Antarctica burn a minimum of 1000 calories, lots
of similar data from Scandinavian & Canadian northerly
research stations, also Thule airbase on greenland. |
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However, heat will speed the evaporation of
ethanol/acetaldehyde/acetate from the body. |
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As a small-ish Canadian boy who eats like a bird and detest the cold, I can confirm that them hairy dudes surrounding me who can go shirtless in the winter certainly seem to consume an excessive amount of calories... while also consuming a higher alcohol content than Southern countries. |
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//As a small-ish Canadian boy who eats like a bird and
detest the cold, I can confirm that them hairy dudes
surrounding me who can go shirtless in the winter certainly
seem to consume an excessive amount of calories.// |
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I always knew there was a (western) Canadian branch to my
family, but it now turns out I have 4 adopted siblings who
are some cousin-type (2nd cousin + some removed business)
relation to me. They're Eskimo in origin, we got a Christmas
video including 2 brothers, who look to be an easy
combined 700lb, (with shirts) throwing, literally throwing a
snowmobile into the back of a truck. I don't know what they
eat, but they find it economical to farm their own beef. |
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Anyhow, it depends upon genetics, but a 2-4 day shock
protocol of cold exposure can activate brown fat in adult
humans. Throw on top of that an excess of amino acids
(arginine particularly) and B-vitamins (niacin) and you can
definitely make yourself feel toastier. That and sheer mass.
Or DNP (link). That doubles metabolism at 50uM, which is
about 300mg in a standard male. Bodybuilders go much
higher, and they stack it with thyroid hormones, stimulants,
and the usual anabolics, sometimes they die, of course.
Generating the usual scare stories. But mostly because if
they end up in hospital, the Drs don't understand and revert
to standard supportive treatment: a glucose drip which
makes things dramatically worse. Should be dantrolene,
benzodiazepines and wheel them into the big refrigerator.
At sensible doses, it's a perfectly safe, if slightly messy
drug, the downside is that your body notices the increased
metabolism and turns down the normal power level via
thyroid hormone feedback, so cycling on/off is the standard
protocol. |
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I am essentially never cold in any normal human
environment. People continually buy me sweaters,
presumably because they never see me wearing them? and
there's no environment for which I can wear them. Inside,
to hot. Outside, it is coat weather or it isn't. |
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I think there's an argument for a transcontinental heat
pipe. I'd be happy to ship some of our typical July/August
sweltering sweat-filled air. |
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" If it were a call-in service you could call it Dial-Assist.
— 2 fries shy of a happy meal, Jun 17 2022 |
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*Slowly rolls up newspaper while side-eyeing 2 fries*
— 21 Quest, Jun 17 2022 " |
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Hands stack of this months newspapers to [21 Quest] |
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{Contemplates the mechanical limitations of rolled
newsprint in a range of applications} |
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