h a l f b a k e r yI didn't say you were on to something, I said you were on something.
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The problem with drugs is that they are, immoral, illegal, potentially dangerous, harmful, epensive, illegal, and did I say illegal? Well you get the point. Anyway my idea is for those individuals who just have to achieve this altered state of mind would be hypnosis. From my limited study on this
(about 10 min on the internet) I think that one of the many, and may I stress many, views on hypnosis is that it can be used to help people remember things. So what if you could get hypnotised into being high? I wouldn't think that the cost of a good hypnotist would be more than what some people spend on drugs. Anyway, the only potential drawbacks that I see are you would have to have done drugs to remember what being high is like, and possible hypnotherepist addiction. Just a thought.
epee'
http://en.wikipedia...wiki/%C3%89p%C3%A9e
[normzone, May 03 2007]
[Tom]'s inevitable logical progression...
Benzodiazepine_20Flags
...in to a world of filth and depravity. [theleopard, May 10 2007]
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sp: therapy, with an "a". (Fixed in the title.) |
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I agree with your conclusion, but not with the logic that got you there. You seem to equate "being high" with "remembering what it's like to be high" - those are different things. |
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But people let themselves get hypnotized into all kinds of interesting states, including being relaxed and happy. So, in as much as that works, it's being done or at least tried, and some professional hypnotists and meditation instructors peddle their trade under the "do this instead of taking drugs" angle. |
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Persistent or morbidly thoughtful like an epee' ? |
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it's an amusing mental picture: shady man approaches you and asks in hushed tones "wanna get hypnotised?" |
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it might have some novelty value, but I think consumers would soon tire of having to 'fake it' to get high. |
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I don't share the view that drug usage is immoral. (per se) Certainly not a good idea on a school-night - but not immoral. |
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Especially if the end-state isn't the source of the morality - as suggested in the idea; i.e. if it's immoral to get high via chemical abuse, why might it be ok to get high via hypnosis? If it's not the act, or experience, are we saying that certain chemicals are fundamentally immoral? Perhaps there's a section of the periodic table (akin to the noble gasses, or the halogens perhaps) that contains "The Immoral Elements". I'd be interested to hear what it is that separates an immoral chemical from a moral one. |
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Illegality is purely down to history - remember that much of the British Empire was built on the Opium trade - opium only being made illegal after the Chinese gained the upper hand in the supply/demand of that particular economic), and much of America's wealth rests on the production of tobacco and sugar-cane (Rum) - both of which could easily fall under the realm of "immoral" substances (assuming we accept the idea that substances might be immoral in themselves). |
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Then there's the harmful question. Are drugs really harmful? Or is it the socio-economic consequences of indulging in illicit (and potentially addictive) activity that has (undoubtedly) negative effects? As I said before, it's not something to do on a school-night - at least, not if you want to function properly for the rest of the week - but does that always equate to something that's necessarily harmful? |
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Expense is a consequence of illegality. I'm sure there are no arguments there. |
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Potentially dangerous? Well maybe, but then so is making a cup of tea. |
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And illicit? Well that fact is incontrovertible, so I'll allow you that one. |
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All that being said, drugs are bad, m'kay? But then so is needless hypnotism. I guess I just don't see any benefits in the idea here. [-] |
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I think that most of the highness of being high has to do with the expectation that one will be high, together with some sort of physiologic trigger by the drug signifying that it is time to feel high. Highness, as a pleasurable sensation to be sought, is largely a cultural construct. As such I think a lot of getting high is already about suggestibility and expectation, and probably one could induce similar experiences with a less harmful or nonharmful drug. |
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[bungston]'s right - various studies have shown that people often 'get drunk' just from being given drinks that they were told were alcoholic, but which actually weren't. |
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There's also at least one person I've read of who did get a hypnotist to train her mind so that she could feel drunk when she wanted to without having to drink, so this idea has been baked for alcohol, at least. |
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Arguably this isn't 'needless hypnotism' - if you like to get drunk once a week, say, this would save you a lot of money - but if you're going to go to a hypnotist (or practise self-hypnosis), there are probably better ways to use that time - more significant hang-ups to free yourself of and/or goals to aim for, rather than simply being able to feel sloshed when you want to. |
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If some people need to feel high, because it offers an escape or some sort of antidote to their normal sensations, this could provide a safer and more precise way to acheive that end. |
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"The Immorral Elements" reminds me of Look Around You's "Forbidden Notes", a set of octaves beyond the usual A-H set that when played make your ears bleed. |
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The problem is that as soon as this becomes an option, criminal "street hypnotists" will begin preying on school children and teenagers, plying their filthy trances and reprehensible mesmers. Kids will start out doing a couple of light trances on a Friday night, but before they know it, they'll be spending weeks in deep meditative trances - and the street hypnos will just be getting richer. Eventually gangs will form, running hypno-battles will be waged over prime areas of turf. Backstreet Mesmer-houses will spring up everywhere where kids can turn up and share mesmerisations. Hypnotism based crime will be rife, trance-crazed youths fighting, stealing and murdering for more money in order to get their next theraputic session. And the health consequences - staying up all night believing you are a chicken, or a lap dancer soon takes its toll, causing neck, back and knee injury in many cases - and then there's the mental health issues. It's a recipe for chaos, disaster and insanity. |
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Sort of like my Benzo Flags [tom]? |
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//Good idea, until the protesters catch on, and start smoking the flags on purpose. Before long, an underground black market in illegal flags will develop. People start off on relatively light flags, tricolours, fleur-de-lis etc but inexorably get introduced to harder flags, eventually becoming destitute as they spend all their income feeding their jolly roger and union jack habits.// |
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Well yes - it's a bit of a roll-outable formula isn't it. You get something that's addictive, try to control the use of it, and end up with ludicrous back-street scenarios like these. |
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indeed - like that flying circus episode about the men who want to be mice. starts with a little cheese, soon you're dressing as a mouse and...squeaking. *shudder* |
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That was quite a fine ramble, [zen_tom]. It reads like the high sci-fi societal background details used in books like Snow Crash or Altered Carbon.
"Running hypno-battles" - great! |
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lol! What I want to know is: |
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If scissors is greater than paper, and paper is greater than rock, then how the heck can rock be greater than scissors!? Perhaps I just need to be in a communist state of mind to answer this one! |
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Does anybody else get commie-zonked after passing level 16 in Tetris, or is it just me? lol! |
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Its not that one is greater, its that scissors cuts paper, paper covers rock, and rock smashes scissors. |
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First off, you do not need hypnosis to "make you feel high", as the state of trance is VERY pleasurable as it is. I view hypnosis and meditation as cousins, with hypnosis having a very specific objective, I.E. over coming some mental issue. Compared to meditation where deep relaxed trance state is the goal. |
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The thing about going into a trance is that you are totally aware of whats going on, and YOU are in control of how "deep" you go. The deeper one gets, the more pleasurable the state becomes, but here is the kicker, the second you start to "think", with your conscious mind, "hey, this feels great", you will start to loose the depth of the trance. The best way to attain a trance is not to try to get into one, savey? |
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But, the more times one does enter into a trance, the easier it becomes to enter that state at will. There was a time when I meditate often, and what I found was that I started to spontaneously enter into trances while going about my daily tasks. One of the greatest feelings in the world, to have this "wave" of bliss washing over you while you are fully aware and functional. Many would agree, better than drugs as your mind is crystal and one will never "burn out" or become a "berni" from excess vive trances, unlike some drug users I know. |
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