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Halo tanker
deck out water tankers with large vertical & horizontal sprayers | |
The Halo unit is a bolt on addition to any water tanker or water carrying road train to make these vehicles fire suppressing tanks.
The device has piping mechanisms to draw, pressurize the water and and spray the water in protective bubble around the tanker. I'm imagining a series of circular pipe
frames periodic fitted with nozzles spraying water in all directions creating a cacooning wet environment. The more presure the greater the sancutuary but the shorter it will last. Fuel for the pump can be drawn out of tanker's fuel tank through a specialised fuel cap.
These tankers can run rescue lines and set up protective zones in support of actual appliances. If the tankers are 4WD, a convoy could make inroads into drivable sections of a forest fire and set up stragetic positions for crews to carry out their valiant work.
The only problem is, like it always is, sources of water.
EATR (robot)
https://en.m.wikipe...mous_Tactical_Robot
Wikipedia page [sninctown, Dec 30 2019]
Spiderbot (old videogame for Commodore 64)
https://youtu.be/XZSObFVfI5E
Youtube link. Kind of intense [sninctown, Dec 30 2019]
Forest fire power generation
Forest_20fire_20power_20generation
Prior Art, [sninc] ... [8th of 7, Dec 30 2019]
Crablogger
https://thunderbird...com/wiki/Crablogger
More Prior Art ... [8th of 7, Dec 30 2019]
M-69
https://en.wikipedi...wiki/M69_incendiary
We love the smell of napalm ... well, pretty much any time of the day or night, actually. [8th of 7, Dec 30 2019]
Pulaski
https://en.wikipedi...wiki/Pulaski_(tool)
Every home should have one. [8th of 7, Dec 31 2019]
Fu-Go
https://en.wikipedi.../Fu-Go_balloon_bomb
Launch balloons and start fires with them. [8th of 7, Dec 31 2019]
The Hexapod.
https://www.youtube...watch?v=46Uod3QHsuM
[2 fries shy of a happy meal, Dec 31 2019]
Hitchhiker's Guide on voting
https://www.goodrea...mocracy-you-see-you
"...because the wrong lizard might get in." [sninctown, Jan 03 2020]
Hitchhiker's Guide on presidents
https://www.goodrea...y-much-a-figurehead
"...job is not to wield power but to draw attention away from it." [sninctown, Jan 03 2020]
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Annotation:
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A firefighter I know mentioned that fighting a large
fire can rapidly consume as much water as is
available. A water truck is better than nothing, but a
lake is preferred. Also, a fire may consume enough
oxygen to choke and stall out a firetruck engine
attempting to drive through the blaze. |
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True the battles have to be picked that can be won. Maybe Batteries or electrolysis? |
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I'd propose a wood-fired fire truck. Actually, less of a truck and more
of a Spiderbot. Specifically, the "EATR" robot (fueled by internal
combustion of biomass) on an articulated-leg chassis (like a spider)
with a wood chipper maw at one end. For creation of fire breaks,
current practice is a team of people to fell trees and rake the ground,
which is often insufficient to stop the fire. What I propose resembles a
giant mechanical Shelob, which when unleashed would clear a wide
path in its dread progress, articulated mandibles uprooting trees and
feeding all organic matter into its terrible jaws, as its abdomen churns
with internal energies and glows with the red heat of combustion,
leaving in its wake a 40 foot wide swath of churned earth and bare
rock. |
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We did consider having the unit towed by a wood-fired steam traction engine, but given its vast size a conventional turbo-electric drive is much more practical. |
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Unlike the EATR mentioned, our design is specifically intended to pre-empt forest fires, not just to scavenge. |
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Shirley the whole forest fire problem can be solved by having
more of them, more often. Just get aircraft to drop
incendiaries every couple of square miles every few years,
burning out any small patches of forest that are overdue for a
fire. As with food and murder, "little and often" is best. |
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Yes, that's what the USFS do. Cute little incendiary pellets, ping-pong balls filled with a mix of isopropanol and potassium permanganate, self-igniting, cheap, nonpolluting, and very effective at igniting underbrush. |
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Not nearly as much fun as a vic of B-52's loaded up to max with M-69's, tho ... |
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//a mix of isopropanol and potassium permanganate, self-
igniting// |
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Whoa there. Surely that mixture would self-ignite as soon as
it was made? |
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There's a diaphragm; the mechanism that ejects them from the aircraft has a pin that punctures it just as it exits the chute. The pellet lands and almost immediately ignites. |
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Acceptably unsafe for a civilian application; no detonants, no white phosphorus or alkali metals, no primary explosives. |
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//a pin that punctures it just as it exits the chute// Ah.
That explains it. For a moment there I thought you'd come up
with something clever. |
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The level of innovation in the Forest Service is commensurate with the challenges they face, and rarely goes beyond items more sophisticated than, for example, the Pulaski <link> - which is, however, magnificently "fit for purpose". |
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The air dropped incendiary pellets probably originated with NASA, although the Japanese made a significant contribution to the concept in the 1940's <link>. |
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// Shirley the whole forest fire problem can be solved by having more of them, more often. // |
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That is a very good point.
I am old enough to remember when we used to do controlled burns at times of the year when the trees could be kept from igniting while destroying the underbrush.
In fire season the dead limbs and needles can be several feet thick in places and may as well be comprised of matchsticks for how fast it can all go up. Between that and fire-breaks wild fires were far more manageable. |
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First the tourists began complaining about hazy air quality.
Then the Eco activists determined that several feet of matchsticks piled under bone-dry forests are a good thing...
...and now we just can't seem to put the dang things out the way we used to. |
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//First the tourists began complaining about hazy air
quality.
Then the Eco activists determined that several feet of
matchsticks piled under bone-dry forests are a good
thing...// |
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Crucially, not doing things is cheaper than doing things. If
you can not do things and explain how you're a good
environmentalist at the same time you're on to a political
winner. Under the surface, there have been grumblings
about forestry mismanagement in California, but all local
responsibility has now been absolved in favor of the
universal boogy man of global warming. |
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Logically, the steps should be: |
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1. Move all human activity away from forested regions. |
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2. Leave the forests completely alone and let nature determine when, where and how much they burn. |
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// 1. Move all human activity away from forested regions.
2. Leave the forests completely alone and let nature determine when, where and how much they burn.
What's wrong with that ?// |
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1. We refuse to stabilize our numbers.
2. See # 1. |
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Nature, if left alone, would have roving packs of wolves and solitary predators which reshape their own ecological niches by controlling prey activity, rampant beaver construction damming and creating maximized wetland areas, and roaming herds of herbivores as far as the eye can see keeping the grasslands from desertification. |
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Way fewer devastating wild fires by working with nature rather than logging, burning, and paving it...
...but I wasn't alive to be consulted then, and now that I am... well, it's like really hard to be heard whilst screaming into seven billion lungs worth of wind-storm. |
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// We refuse to stabilize our numbers // |
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We suggest some sort of cull - discriminating, or indeed indiscriminate - is clearly indicated. |
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There are a number of possible mechanisms. |
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Or...
...or we work on a gradual de-populization while sporing into space using all of the tech which the general public has been purposely kept at least fifty years behind the times of... |
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Some will need to stay behind to help clean up the damage of course. A cooperative stable five billion or so should do nicely. |
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// A cooperative stable five billion or so should do nicely. // |
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Indeed. Perhaps if they were organised into a single efficient Collective consciousness by some sort of process of absorbtion, that would be even better. |
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The sooner you start, the better. |
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Seeds planted take time and nurturing.
Just waiting to reap what's already been sown. Forging a plowshare from a sword was the hard part. |
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// tech which the general public has been purposely kept at least fifty
years behind the times of // |
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Interesting theory. It'd pain me to learn that my engineering work had
been made ineffective on purpose by suppressing useful technology. |
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Strangely enough, I have been unable to find any suppressed
technology on the usual archive sites. I have however found doctored
photographs, a lot of descriptions of half-baked prototypes that don't
work, and eager statements by people who are also on record saying
verifiably wrong things. It's odd that I have not found a single
suppressed technology. Sure, there are expensive-to-build
technologies, and there seem to be trade-secret technogies, but these
are differences of degree not of kind. |
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One big one here would be an inertial-suppression device. The leading
suppressed-tech theory seems to be that strong electromagnetic
fields negate mass, so making a superconducting metal sphere and
setting up standing waves (both electrical and mechanical) in it
makes it and the surroundings have less mass. I see no actual
evidence to support this though. |
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Another big one would be AI. However I don't see chip manufacturers
suppressing technology, instead the goal is to keep up with Moore's
Law. The sense I get is that whoever owns it all would love to deploy
AI to outnumber humans, but the tech isn't ready yet. |
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Another big one would be magic/psi/esp or something like that. Here
again it sounds like there's nothing definitive although many
subjective experiences seem real to the guy having the visions. |
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As much as I'd love there to be a secret space program with inertial-
suppressed near-light-speed ships, with helpful AI and psychic space
marines onboard heading for the Korpulu sector, this appears not to
be reality. |
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Believing that any government has the ability to keep
anything secret for any length of time goes against all
experience, and is a sure sign of feeble-mindedness. |
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An excellent example is nuclear proliferation. |
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In 1945, the USA wanted to keep "atomic secrets" unto itself, which worked for a few years; but they could only conceal the details, not the principles. In fact, the possibilities of fission as an energy source had already been openly discussed in newspapers across the world prior to 1939. |
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Altho the USSR obtained valuable information by espionage, other nations obtained the technology by simple applied engineering, although Britain had a head start, having kicked off the whole development process with Tube Alloys. |
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The same uncomfortable fact is that if you have a supply of yellow cake, 1940's level engineering capability, some reasonably clever people, and enough money, you can join the Nuclear Club*. |
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Any useful technology (poison gas, bioweapons, nukes) will eventually be deployed. Once it is known to be practical, methodology will be deduced from first principles by others. Even if it isn't, advances in adjacent fields will reveal a "shadow" in information (like the DDT/Sarin confusion between the Allies and the Axis). Since it is possible to deduce a great deal about something by the shape of the space it occupies, secrecy is never permanent. |
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*defined as "Everywhere except Monaco, Liechtenstein, Andorra and the Seychelles" |
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If 8th and Max agree that there's no significant suppressed tech, then
it must be true. Good. |
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Heck, the UK government couldn't even keep the lid on its
development of postcode-specific viruses for more than six
months. |
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Hang on. That was general knowledge, wasn't it? |
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Suppression by the public's ability to obfuscate is different from not being allowed in the public domain in the first place. Governments still have secrets that are not allowed public. |
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//public has been purposely kept at least fifty years behind the times of // |
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////Interesting theory. It'd pain me to learn that my engineering work had been made ineffective on purpose by suppressing useful technology.//// |
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Indeed.
Check in with The-Donalds' uncle and those who raided Nikola's allotted hotel room shortly after his death. |
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//As much as I'd love there to be a secret space program with inertial- suppressed near-light-speed ships, with helpful AI and psychic space marines onboard heading for the Korpulu sector, this appears not to be reality.// |
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Appearances are almost always deceiving and none of the shit we are currently using as power sources would pass an engineers' scrutiny if said engineer were given their druthers.
It's a bit of a joke really. The inherent inefficiencies which we, (I mean you), are forced to work around. |
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// Believing that any government has the ability to keep anything secret for any length of time goes against all experience, and is a sure sign of feeble-mindedness. // |
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Boom! There it is. The Godwin's law of debunkery.
No human beings could keep and maintain such secrets therefore no such secrets exist. |
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I completely agree.
Not that no such secrets exist, but that no group of human beings would be capable of keeping and enforcing the suppression of such secrets. |
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... for any significant period of time. |
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It's possible to conceal information about human actions for extended periods; it's not possible to effectively conceal information about science or technology for more than a few years, much as governments desire that. |
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By their nature, governments are almost incapable of acting preemptively except on the most critical threats, and even then they struggle. The "conspiracy" theory of history is in a way correct, but instead of the conspiracy preceding events, it follows them; a desperate attempt to somehow cover up the appalling cockup they have made (again). |
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In the end, it always fails. The object of those in power is to stave off disclosure until they are out of power, retired, or best of all for them*, dead. |
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*and indeed everyone else. |
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Governments, seems plausible. But smart and
ambitious people sometimes join secret societies
instead of working for a government salary.
However, this is an unfalsifiable theory. The secret society
drinks from Russell's Teapot as far as I know. |
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//this is an unfalsifiable theory// It's falsifiable by the
application of a small amount of intelligence. |
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Buchanan's Third Law (it may not be the third; I lose count):
there is no conspiracy theory so idiotic that nobody will
believe it. In fact, it's generally the case that the number of
believers increase with the ludicrosity of the conspiracy
theory, as does their vehemence in defending it. |
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Yes, conspiracy theories are easy arguments to straw-man that's for sure. |
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Can we agree on this statement?;
"Everything is rigged in favor of the one percent who hold the most wealth." |
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I will make the assumption that we can agree on that rather than wait for your reply since it is patently obvious to everyone on the planet.
Our reliance on fossil fuels is a sham perpetuated by wealthy middle easterners with very little left of their once tropical countries to barter on the world market therefore gas and oil have been forced onto the world at large in favor of much more efficient and elegant solutions just so that status quo of distribution if wealth is maintained.
Capitalist countries are basically for sale to the highest bidder and so our governments are able to be manipulated by lining pockets and extortion. |
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The internal combustion engine would be lucky to win a high school science project if developed today because of how monumentally inefficient it is. |
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In the 20's Tesla had figured out how to amplify the vibrations of a simple crystal AM radio to charge the batteries of a car which worked from a single antenna and a radio tower. |
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Westinghouse, Edison and a bunch of other POS engineered the bullshit we see around us today in order to squeeze every last drop of profit to be had from the uneducated shills which were the general public of the day and it has been perpetuated ever since both economically and scholastically with the dumbing-down of North America. |
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No conspiracies my ass...
I think the charge of "Oath Breaker" should be introduced to the criminal justice system on both a political and public scale for those who abuse positions of trust to further themselves at the expense of others. |
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//In the 20's Tesla had figured out how to amplify the
vibrations of a
simple crystal AM radio to charge the batteries of a car
which worked
from a single antenna and a radio tower.// Alas, no. Given
a high-
power radio transmitter, you can pick up a tiny, tiny
fraction of that
power and use it. The only way to pick up all the power is
to make
your car spherical and build it around the transmitter
which, alas, isn't
very useful. It's tantamount to trying to run a solar-
powered car from an electric lightbulb. |
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Your overarching conspiracy theory relies on the
embarrassingly stupid
assumption that every competent or innovative engineer is
somehow
inducted into a Secret Circle of international conspiracists,
and
persuaded to give up the fame, glory and money that he or
she could
make from their invention. |
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The thing about most conspiracy theories is not just that
they're
wrong, it's that the nutjobs haven't even made the effort to
make them
interestingly wrong, by thinking them through. Please try
harder! Oh,
and happy new year. |
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Happy New Year to you too [MB]! |
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Do you deny that there is evidence that Tesla had figured out how to amplify AM radio waves to charge batteries which ran an electric car and wireless transmission of electricity in the 20's, and that Westinghouse shut him the fuck down? |
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That's no theory. That's a fact. Our education systems and modern infrastructure stem directly from that fuckery which has since been perpetuated by those in authority with the help of those who willingly and quite vocally turn a blind eye while belittling those who do not. |
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The punishment for Oath Breaking should involve prison time... and not the club-med prison time the pasty faced white collar crime asswipes usually see either. |
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General population... just like their constituents. |
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// Tesla had figured out how to amplify AM radio waves to charge batteries which ran an electric car and wireless transmission of electricity in the 20's, and that Westinghouse shut him the fuck down? // |
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It is possible that <italics> at the time <italics/> Westinghouse did that for commercial reasons. |
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However... such technology has clear military applications. If any nation had posessed it during WW2, it would have been unhestitatingly deployed, just as the'secret' cavity magnetron, VT-fused artillery shells, Enigma/Purple/JN25 decoding, acoustic torpedoes and ultimately fission weapons were. Lots of service personnel would have seen the equipment even if they didn't grasp the physics; an electric aircraft with infinite range could not be kept secret indefinitely, and ironcally it's the politicians who are most likely to blab for transient popular gain. |
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Secrecy is like a party balloon- it only takes the tiniest leak and pretty soon everything gets out. |
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// Secrecy is like a party balloon- it only takes the tiniest leak and pretty soon everything gets out. // |
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As far as that statement pertains to humans I do not doubt it...
So what does that leave us with?... |
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It leaves us with the internal combustion engine as a primary power source and Donald-fucking-Trump as president of the most, (publically endorsed), militarily armed country on the planet.
That's what it amounts to. |
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I for one have had it with the con-men I see running the show. |
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Why am I anonymously voting, (with absolutely no way to ensure that my vote goes where I said it went), for individuals who are for sale rather than voting un-anonymously on policy? |
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Can anyone in their right mind please answer me that question? |
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As far as I can tell a persons vote literally only entitles them to bitch about the consequences of the lying assholes they have no way of knowing if they actually elected or not. |
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Am I the only sane person on this planet? |
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I'm okay with that and am leaning more and more towards that determination every friggin day of my life, and dealing with the fact that it may very well be so... |
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I just need to know one way or the other is all. |
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That knowledge would... determine certain things. |
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This gets into advocacy territory. |
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// voting un-anonymously //
interesting concept. the secret ballot dates back to the
French Revolution. which is more of a risk: reprisals
against non-anonymous voters or fraud against anonymous
voters? i still lean toward the secret ballot plus exit polls,
but there are other systems. |
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// voting directly on policy //
interesting but recent California history suggests that
people would pass bills that contradict each other as well
as pass bills that bankrupt the State. so in practice this
was mostly baked and ran into issues. |
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// voting for individuals who are on sale //
yeah... a leading conspiracy-theory opinion is that Epstein
didn't kill himself, but i'm not sure how useful it is to
discuss this. if there is some secret ruling cabal, they're
very well-hidden. by definition, politicians are more
popular with voters than non-politicians. there's still
plenty of tea in the stores
so it's not all bad. |
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to supply water to the Halo tanker, I would propose a
ballistic water cannon. this would be a conventional fire
hose and nozzle with a few additions:
1. high-pressure high-power pump to create the high
pressure and flow rate needed.
2. a nozzle resembling rocket nozzle material, with a
porous surface and air pumped in through small holes to
create a boundary layer, such that there is a layer of air
between the water and the nozzle wherever the water is
moving at high velocity.
3. a thin plastic sleeve which is continuously extruded
around the plume of water, streamlining it to enable
laminar flow over a longer distance. think a giant spool of
Saran Wrap just above the nozzle orifice. the spray of
water pulls the Saran Wrap to unroll and wrap and seal
around the far side of the water spray. the Saran Wrap
material is unspooled at a high rate to match the water
velocity. ideally this would be a biodegrateable material.
the biodegradeable Saran Wrap would stretch to
accommodate the water stream's diameter increase as its
velocity decreased (the opposite of why a stream of
water from a faucet gets smaller as it gets closer to the
sink -- smaller area at higher speeds, larger at slower
speeds, for constant flow rate).
4. a heavily reinforced "umbrella" attached on top of the
Halo Tanker to redirect the incoming plume of ballistic
water into a "halo" around the vehicle.
I have not done any calculations regarding the
feasibility
of this.
I also like the idea of dropping water from
orbit to fight forest fires, but that concept would have
even more issues. |
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//Do you deny that there is evidence that Tesla had figured out how to
amplify AM radio waves to charge batteries which ran an electric car // |
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Yes, I do deny it. If I'm wrong, find me proof that he ever did such a
thing successfully. |
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Yes, in theory you can charge batteries via AM radio waves. After all,
you can power a crystal radio from AM waves alone. However, you will
capture - at most - a tiny tiny fraction of the broadcast power. So, using
AM radio waves to charge a car battery is not really feasible, and
certainly not efficient. A crystal set with a very long antenna captures a
few *microwatts* of power from a strong signal. |
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Tesla had some very good ideas, but also a few fruitloopy ones. His
Westinghouse power "transmitter" was based on a misunderstanding, and
it's now known that it couldn't work except at a very low efficiency (akin
to the AM radio/crystal set problem). He did power some lights, but I
can power a fluorescent tube (ie, it will glow dimly) just by going and
standing underneath a high-voltage cable - the amount of power
collected is pitifully small. |
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You've got an open mind, [2fries], but having an open mind makes you
vulnerable to people dumping trash in it. |
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// the internal combustion engine as a primary power source // |
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Primary mobile power source. |
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Don't confuse generation with transmission. Even if Nikolai had cracked wireless transmission of energy at high efficiency (it would need to be the same order of magnitude as conventional cables) there is still no free lunch. |
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Most compact, reliable energy sources are Carnot heat engines; even nuclear plants use steam turbines. Seebeck and photoelectric generators are still heat engines, and of low efficiency compared to their rivals. |
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Let's say you have a nice, shiny personal drone from Nikolai-Buchanan Corp. that uses wireless power and can stay aloft until you die of starvation or dehydration (or anoxia if you fly high enough). That doesn't solve the issue of where the energy comes from. Tesla never claimed that Wardencliffe was in any sense an over-unity machine. |
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Even if every device on your planet could be powered by a network of Tesla Towers plonked down every 2000km or so, each tower would still need to be ringed by a herd of Terawatt-range fusion generators to feed it - unless he had also cracked Zero-point energy. |
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Thanks [sinctown], would lowering the temperature of the water, or some other physical manipulation, help with molecular orientation of the laminar flow? therefore avoiding the biodegradable Saran Wrap mechanism. |
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well, one solution would be to freeze the water before
launch. a ballistic hailstorm would get big aerodynamic
chunks of water to the fire, but it might be prudent to keep
the Halo tanker well clear of the hail impact area. |
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A below zero water object would probably travel through flame, if velocity was too frantic. Frozen water/surfactant bubbles? |
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Sorry [wjt], went off on a bit of a tangent there. |
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//a ballistic hailstorm// I like that idea very, very much
indeed. |
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Indeed; an application that is simply crying out for the reckless and inadvisable deployment of an extremely large trebuchet ... or several thereof ... |
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I'm sure a long-range ice-cannon could be developed. I've got
some of Gerald Bull's notes and sketches somewhere... |
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<Looks round furtively, slides unabelled Blu-Ray disk concealed in folded newspaper to [MB]/> |
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I've mentioned before that that sort of video doesn't really do
it for me. I've never understood what people see in herring. |
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Just give it back to Sturton. Use as much force as is necessary. Or more, if you feel so inclined. In fact, you might as well just go ahead and use excessive force just for the sake of it. |
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// That was general knowledge, wasn't it? // |
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Oh yes, like the latest public touchscreens - particularly the ones at transport hubs - being configured to acquire fingerprints from users ... |
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I always carry a spare finger to use on public touchscreens. |
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// Am I the only sane person on this planet? // |
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// a ballistic hailstorm // |
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[sninctown] this really deserves its own post - it's
rather ingenious. |
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// Am I the only sane person on this planet? // |
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That is true, yet notably misleading. To be the only sane person on the planet, there must be exactly one sane person. Since there are no sane persons on* the planet, it is not possible for anyone to be "the only sane person". |
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*we are not currently on your planet, but in geostationary orbit, concealed behind one of your larger communications satellites. This saves on running the Cube's cloaking device, which uses a lot of energy and incidentally interferes with our Paranoia Brane Ray which we focus on various halfbakers now and again to make them twitch in an amusing way. |
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My reply neither requires that there be any sane
persons, nor that the questioner be amongst them,
whatever their number. |
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Perhaps it's using water that is the problem?
Small fire-extinguishers come in many types; could large
scale dry powder be more effective, at least for ground-
level suppression? Or dry-ice, for that matter. |
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