h a l f b a k e r yIdea vs. Ego
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Caught a video of an HHO water torch used by welders and other industrial applications today. This heating method uses electricity and water and through electrolysis produces HHO gas which when burned turns to water.
Unique properties are it heats to the temperature of the substance it is being directed
at yet remains safe to handle. If i understand this right it will heat to the boiling point of the various ingredients in the same pot.
Could be interesting to experiment with in the kitchen.
Had a thought to try this as a cooking gas for barbeque's and kitchens as it will heat up pans very quickly and only produces water as its byproduct. could be useful in restaraunts etc.
Kind of combines the benefits of both electric and gas stoves with water as its byproduct. Don't know much more than this right now.
HHO Gas
http://www.metacafe...water_fueled_torch/
Video of HHO gas - generated by water and electricity [Shapharian, Sep 13 2007]
Sample Product
http://www.mediterr...ages/_mixgrill2.gif
Could be prepared using HHO [vincevincevince, Sep 13 2007]
Burning Salt Water With High Frequency Radio Waves
http://www.cosmosmagazine.com/node/1578
"Though it has the air of a hoax, if true, it could be one of the biggest discoveries in chemistry in recent times." [Klaatu, Sep 13 2007]
Klaatu, let me direct you to a Live Journal friend of mine's response to that.
http://kadath.livejournal.com/540423.html
She is a real, honest to Hank, Rocket Scientist. [Galbinus_Caeli, Sep 13 2007]
Oxy-Hydrogen Torches
http://en.wikipedia...i/Oxyhydrogen_flame
No more suited to cooking than any other form of blow torch. [DrCurry, Sep 13 2007]
Wikipedia Oxyhydrogen
http://en.wikipedia...s_gas#Brown.27s_gas
Well, Wikipedia may just be the only reliable source left online ;) [Shapharian, Sep 13 2007]
HHO Torch Video
http://www.youtube....watch?v=G6YYUOx6fBU
HHO Water Torch Video [Shapharian, Sep 14 2007]
Home made HHO torch
http://www.youtube....watch?v=sDELwXjtVCc
[Shapharian, Sep 14 2007]
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Better to use just electric stove than electrolysis. Hydrogen cooking in the home might be a little scary too. |
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Seems great to me. Just make sure that you can afford the electricity bill to produce the HHO gas... |
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//If i understand this right it will heat to
the boiling point of the various ingredients
in the same pot.// |
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That doesn't sound right to me. Surely
electrolysis produces H2 and 02 (in a 2:1
ratio) which burn to give water? In which
case it's basically just a hydrogen torch
with exactly the right balance of 02 and
H2. In which case it will make things very
hot indeed. |
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One of the videos stated the hho flame appears to be unique and heats to the melting temp of whatever it is pointed at... I've never played with one but what struck a chord with me is this self regulating and adjusting unique flame. |
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The flame heats to the melting temp of whatever it's pointed at? Sounds like a very efficient form of refrigeration, just point the bastard at some water. Or some air. |
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Just be careful you don't drop a salt crystal in the flame- you will be surprised how hot your torch gets all of a sudden. For that matter, your pot has a pretty high melting point too. |
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Any water torch welders out there? Can you give us the time it takes to cook a burger ? |
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Somebody somewhere is winding
somebody up. |
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I think you have seriously misunderstood this video. (Can't get the sound at work though, so will have to rewatch later.) |
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The point of using electricity to generate hydrogen and oxygen to reburn in welding is that that can be much cheaper than using purchased acetylene/oxygen mixes. And that's a *welding* flame - those things are very hot indeed, even if the temperature matches the melting point of the metals used. |
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Using it to power a stove is dumb ass, when you could just heat the stove using electricity in the first place. |
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//Using it to power a stove is dumb ass, when you could just heat the stove using electricity in the first place// |
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Just as cooking on an electric stove is dumb ass, considering the electric power was made by a gas-fired generator burning gas you could have used to heat the stove directly and much more efficiently with. |
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And burning gas is dumb ass because gas is just the stored metabolic potential of prehistoric plants. Stored sunlight, in other words. Just cook stuff with sunlight! |
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Cooking with sunlight is just dumb ass. Sunlight is simply a by-product of nuclear fusion. Just cook with an H-bomb. |
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I guess what intrigued me was the hho byproduct was plain jane h20 water. I don't care that electricity was being used as much as the flame generated through the electrolysis process seems well suited for cooking. |
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If the by product is water than the flame can go directly on the meat. The flame appears to cook through any metal very quickly so pans may be worthless. |
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Either they are blowing smoke up someone's you know what or this flame would just reach the boiling temperature of whatever it contacts which kind of makes sense as it would appear the boiling reaction of the food / metal etc. would turn the byproduct into water. |
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I understand microwaves resonate at 2.4Mhz to heat the water... I have no clue on how the electrlysis and h2 o2 ignite and work their magic. Maybe i've got it wrong as i don't understand how the gas can heat at 212 degrees for water and 1800 for metals and still be low temp on your skin. |
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The video peaked my curiousity and the byproduct makes it appear to be healthier than charcoal, wood or any other burning material. |
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If I can shine it on corn and have either fresh popcorn or 10 second roasted cob i'd be happy. Baked potatoes in under a minute... Who knows.. |
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Interesting if you can mix a bunch of stuff together and the flame cooks each one to its proper temperature. |
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Where can I get my hands on one of these babies to try out? |
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Go experiment cooking with an oxy-acetylene torch, or any kind of blow torch, then come back. It's possible, but by no means easy or safe (and I do speak from experience here!). |
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And no, if you're thinking the flame will only cook each component to its proper cooking temperature, then you are very badly mistaken. So, if that's your intent, then this is Bad Science. |
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HHO? what like H20 or have I a humour bypass today? |
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Po: gist of idea: split water into oxygen and hydrogen, burn it again, and it won't burn the food. The last part is magic, unfortunately. |
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my last past was pretty magical, too. i was a unicorn. |
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(smiles meekly and looks around at all the pretty science.) |
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All the science around these parts is pretty fugly. |
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You can cook the outermost layer of whatever more or less instantaneously. The maximum rate of heat transfer will determine the maximum temp at which you can heat the inside without burning the outside. |
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Basically, you will have a charred raw potato. |
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It might actually pop popcorn, though, I'm not sure on that one. |
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Maybe what you are saying is that any material will only reach a phase change temperature, then any additional energy will be used in melting/vaporization? That is certainly true, but it does not follow that 0.1 seconds after shining this on your hand you won't pull back a stump. It also is not that relevant to cooking. What do you suppose is the melting temperature of a potato? |
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Yeah, really. Fox News? That should be the first clue. Most torch tips stay fairly cool, if the flame is adjusted right. |
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Good point... maybe the cow has got to be dead ;)
I don't know what to believe there is a lot of data floating around online about brown's gas - hho and that its not hydrogen... they say it implodes insted of explodes. I'm miffed cause the video shows it being "hotter than the sun" on one material but hot and harmless taround your fingers but not directly on the flame. |
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Yeah my idea was it would cook through without burning and turn to water when it reaches the optimized temperature produce water to make things juicier. |
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Scratch this as a pipe dream... I would be curious if anyone has access to one of these water torches as to how a chop would turn out... I'll buy the chop if they make the video... |
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don't mention cows to the british for gawd's sake |
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welcome to the hb, avoid magic. |
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Allright... Make sure the tandori chicks are done and the chippy fish aren't flappin. ;) |
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Any doubt that this is not wholly magic should be alleviated by watching the video. This was posted on this site 9 months ago, I first saw it a year ago. And yet, no new inventions based on it. No new industries springing up to use it or make a car travel 100 miles using 4 oz of water? How can that be? Oh, must be the oil companies buying up all the GOOD ideas again. OR, could be this does not work. Hydrogen and water do not want to separate; this is what makes water stable. If you do separate them, they want to get back together badly enough that a simple spark provides all the energy required (actually exothermic), the combine to make water. |
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But running a car on this technology? Come on! You lose energy each time you split water, and you would need a large compressor to fit enough hydrogen into a cylinder to make an engine idle. |
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As far as heating objects to their respective boiling points, HA!! Just point it at some CO2 and see if it magically heats it to -57C. |
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This guy Stan Meyer mysteriously died of food poisoning... Hmm maybe he was cooking with it. |
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There is a bunch of youtube videos of hho generators = overunity claims - etc. Who really knows what is the truth. |
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Couple videos show someone lighting the gas in the open container with a lighter making a snap crackle pop sound. Search youtube for hho. |
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Seems doable.. Plastic container with a few tubes filled with water and a 12v battery generating cooking gas. |
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If it really works you'd have a cool water heater, home heat and cooking gas. |
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Wonder if it could flame creme brulee? |
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Kind of a neat concept for a water based hho torch for crusting creme brulee. |
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//overunity claims - etc. Who really knows
what is the truth. // Oh for goodness
sake. Grow up. |
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Checkout the video around the 5:30 mark. |
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HHO Ambient flame temperature 259 - 270 degrees and instantly changes to the temperature required for the item: |
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Steel: 1400 degrees
Refractory brick 4500 degrees
Tungsten 10,000 degrees
Example of a bbq briquette 6:25 |
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The video is decent and a real company. |
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HHO appears to allow different items to be welded together. Steel to copper so it would have to bring two different items up to there required temperatures. |
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//The video is decent and a real
company. // I respectfully refer the
speaker to my previous response. |
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I'm not claiming or believing overunity. Let others go down that path... My point is if you could make your own cooking gas using plain water and electricity / Battery and if the flame truly is different for different items. This could be useful for home use. |
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ie. cooking, camping, water heater, furnace. Thats it. |
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The next video shows simple devices making gas from water on demand. Perfect... No tanks, No gas lines, low cost and can be placed right at the requirement point. |
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Well, OK, I'd agree there may be used
for on-site electrolysis to make
hydrogen. And I confess to only
watching the Fox Views video. But the
guy is claiming all kinds of crap for
what is, after all, just a hydrogen flame. |
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And it's the same flame whatever you
put in front of it. |
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His Ford Escort is capable of running
"on water alone", but he has wisely
opted (I note) to leave it configured as a
"hybrid vehicle" that can also run on
perfectly sane fuels as a backup. |
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I think all these folks promoting hydroxy, hho, browns gas, hydrogen etc. are missing the mark. |
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Simple and cost effective home use applications. A grill but insteaf of the NG / propane you have a battery and a water reservoir. |
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Saves you $20 a tank if it works well. Swimming pool heater.. Hot tub heater, sauna, steamroom, |
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It would be one hell of a toaster ;) |
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And how much do the batteries cost you? |
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Think this stuff through, kiddo! |
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Well I am not sure on the volume of gas necessary for a meaningful flame. obviously we will not be generating a compressed tank full... just enough on demand to get the job done. Thermo1.com has a video of a hho generator powered by a 9 volt battery that lasts 20 minutes. Most systems I see videos of on youtube show 12v abd from 1/2 amp to 7 amps. |
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The amount generated varies by current. |
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http://www.youtube.com/ watch?v=u9XrLOudwRw& is a home made generator 12v 1/2 amp allegedly producing 7 cc/s. |
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OK, so if it produces 7 cc/s H2/O2 gas. Assuming gas collected was holding 20 degC and gas also containing water vapor (saturated), one minute gas production would contain 3872 Joules of Hydrogen energy (using Higher heating value) and only 360 Joules electrical energy consumed, i.e. 903% efficiency !!!! Overunity bs. |
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Now 6 watts is nothing when your microwave runs at 3500 - 5000 watts. i say the hell with efficiency and overunity nonsense throw some juice at it and let it be a mystery |
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http://www.youtube.com/ watch?v=h2YM0qAb9_0 theorizes the flame is implosive instead of explosive. |
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Well i can't think of any other fire / flame that implodes. maybe thats what allows it to have the varying temperatures. |
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once again this info is only as reliable as its sources. |
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I followed the Wiki link, which led me to an article about Ruggero Santilli. I love this bit: |
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"Most of his work on this theory has been published in Hadronic Journal, a journal of which Santilli himself is the founder and chief editor." |
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I'm sure some of his publications were peer-reviewed by the founder himself. |
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What really amazed me about the Fox video was all the comments. They were all along the lines of, "wow, we can power the whole world on water" or, "see, the evil US oil government companies are pulling the wool over our eyes again." |
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Are people _really_ that stupid? |
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- "I can make water into water and heat!"
- "Wow, it's on telly so it must be true."
- "This means anyone that says otherwise is lying! String 'em up!" |
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//Are people _really_ that stupid? |
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- "I can make water into water and heat!"
//
I dunno, not that long ago, people believed it was possible to turn water into wine.
//After all, how is it supposed to cook meat if it doesn't cook your hand//
Well, duh, hands aren't made of meat.
Only animals are made of meat. |
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Water vines, pick & ferment grapes. If that's not turning water into wine, then I don't know what is! |
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solder has lower melt temp than pipe. Flame is differing temps in different parts. Torch operator holds pipe in cooler part of flame. brings pipe up to only melting temp of solder, then applies solder. Note different parts of flame have differing temperatures- temp control is done by adjusting proximity of torch to work piece. |
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HHO is implosive, not explosive? That must be why they mounted the engines on the top of the space shuttle so they could suck it into the sky. |
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Oh, and if you are pointing a thermometer at a melting substance it is pretty much always going to show the fusion temperature. This is because anything warmer is going to flow away from that surface, and anything cooler is under that surface. |
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This controversy seems simple enough to fix... Some one with one of these hho contraptions outhere... just post a video grilling a nice chop. Tell us how it turns out. |
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