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The effect would be achieved by having the fountain
water
contain hundreds of 1" clear plastic balls with bright,
battery powered led lights.
The pump mechanism would obviously be constructed in
such a way as to not damage the balls as they were
sucked
from the collection basin below the
fountain and sprayed
up in the stream.
They could also be made to pulsate and twinkle or even
flash for additional effects.
Having then all remote controlled might be interesting.
Have them all strobe in sync and adjust them to get one
of
those slow motion fountain effects.
Of course a much easier way would just be to load the
water with thousands of plastic mirror pieces and shine
bright spotlights on the water, but the flashing light units
would be much cooler. You could also just use air to blow
them around but I think the lights would play with the
water nicely.
You'd use induction recharging so you wouldn't have to
change hundreds of batteries.
Just look at the :20 to :25 segment.
https://www.youtube...watch?v=ualDtRbPajM
Ignore the rest. [doctorremulac3, Dec 12 2017]
Water and lights at night.
https://www.youtube...watch?v=zsSyxhmGMos
A worthy endeavor. [doctorremulac3, Dec 12 2017]
LED balls
https://www.amazon....E56DVBXA541E2ZQPF9D
$5 each. [doctorremulac3, Dec 12 2017]
Glowing balls. (I'd have that looked into)<-- joke
https://www.amazon....s=fluorescent+balls
About fifty cents each so 1/10th the cost. [doctorremulac3, Dec 12 2017]
Another estimation of what it might look like.
https://www.amazon....s=fluorescent+balls
Came across this quite by accident. [doctorremulac3, Dec 12 2017]
Lit up golf balls for nigh playing.
https://www.youtube...watch?v=bzusC4y9edc
It's a real thing. [doctorremulac3, Dec 12 2017]
The real Doctor Remulak
https://www.youtube...watch?v=hNJ3AlJrgv4
I however am NOT doctor Remulak. [doctorremulac3, Dec 13 2017]
What the hell is this?
https://marketplace...WhiteSilver/2317840
Is this my idea? [doctorremulac3, Dec 21 2017]
Takes a while...
https://www.youtube...watch?v=nIMQjnMX7GM
... and when you see it you'll say "Well, just wasted precious minutes of my life I'll never get back." [doctorremulac3, Dec 22 2017]
Wow.
https://www.youtube...RDqlTCB_p3slY&t=293
Artificially induced glowing bits in water, definitely worth pursuing. [doctorremulac3, Dec 23 2017]
Vieques Island Bioluminescent Bay
https://vieques.com...bioluminescent-bay/
It's the brightest in the world, apparently. [Wrongfellow, Dec 23 2017]
Eductor that can handle balls
https://www.animate...y/aap_glossary.html
Allow Flash, and then click on "PDX Fluid Handling Pump". Click on the right half of the ellipse behind "Alphabetical Order" in the upper right to view the second page of it. This seems to be the only source that uses that name for it. [notexactly, Mar 18 2018]
Second Life
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Life
Mentioned in my anno [notexactly, Mar 18 2018]
[link]
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You could also add a sort of volcano effect by
having
the fountain on top of a stepped pyramid base so
the
balls would bounce entertainingly down after being
shot up in the air. |
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Wonder if Disney would give me a Brinks truck full
of
money for this idea. I've always wanted one of
those. |
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Why not have the carrier fluid be an acid, and have dissimilar metal panels on the surface of the spheres ? A small battery could accumulate energy via a DC-DC switcher - or use a supercapacitor. |
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Well, does add that element of danger that most
fountains are missing. |
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Unless you're talking about acids that are safe for
contact with human skin, in which case not
interested. |
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The pump could also reset a timer and mode
switch on the balls.. This would allow for synced
emission, for patterning and waves of color. |
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Shirley much simpler to use a saltwater fountain and some luminous dinoflagellates? They emit light in response to shear stress, so the light would have interesting patterns that corresponded to local turbulence. They're also much cheaper to produce than plastic balls, and don't need charging, and are easier to pump. |
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You could probably also engineer them for both colour and stress sensitivity, to get a fountain that was different colours in different parts. |
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Forget the batteries. Design the balls in such a way that
they accumulate a static charge or something or are
capacitors charged by magnetic induction or some such emf
magic. |
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You could put a photosensor in them to trigger light so an
external laser could create images and effects without
really complex onboard CPU synchronization. |
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Also getting your millions from Disney might go well with
having them at the gift shop, with little LED hearts on them
so couples could express affection and throw them in the
fountain together. The lights in the fountain would grow
and grow. |
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I want one.
I don't know where I'd put it, but I want one. |
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We have a suggestion as to where you can put it, specifically The
Place Where The Sun Does Not Shine. |
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It will look better in the dark. |
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// Unless you're talking about acids that are safe for contact with
human skin // |
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Oh come on, what do you think ? |
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// luminous dinoflagellates? // |
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Wouldn't you need a fairly narrow band of temperature control ?
What about nutrients ? How hard would it be to keep the culture
pure - would you need some sort of microbiological Gestapo to
enforce racial purity ? |
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Presumably you'd have to make really, really tiny bands with
swastikas on them to be worn on the flagellae ? |
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Aren't the brown shirts going to obscure the light somewhat ? |
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What are you going to do if the fountain annexes the Sudetenand
? |
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They could also be kinetically powered. Have little
generators that have an offset weight on the rotor so
as the thing gets tossed around by the water the
generator spins enough to provide power. |
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Might help if the outer casing were ovoid rather than spherical, to induce tumbling. |
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A kinetoelectric generator is going to add mass, whereas for maximum height - even entrained in a fluid column - a fairly low mass will probably be better. |
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There is no doubt a calculable optimum density for a given size of element. |
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When an element departs from the fluid column, if it has low density then it will store less kinetic energy, and aerodynamic drag will slow it at a greater rate before gravity pulls it down. |
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A heavier unit will have more energy, but depending on its profile it may be harder to transfer kinetic energy to it from the fluid, meaning its starting velocity is lower. Since there is a V^2 term in kinetic energy,small changes in V are more significant than large changes in M. |
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Hang on a moment. This is silly. You'll want thousands of these things for an effective fountain. |
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Make the balls (which can be any size you like) out of phosphorescent ("glow in the dark") plastic, which is already a thing. |
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In the base of the fountain, have an intense light (UV might be good) to keep their "glow" topped up. If they get re-charged in this way on every trip around the fountain, they'll be super bright. |
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That's smart. They wouldn't be as bright as I had
hoped for but that would definitely be the easiest
way to do this.
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Can you see laser beams shot through water if they
don't hit anything reflective? If not, you could have
a couple of dozen lasers at the base aimed up that
would illuminate the balls, plastic mirrored
confetti or whatever as they danced and bounced
around in the water.
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I was basically picturing something a little like the
link. |
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But Max, if you can sell the combo of our ideas to
Disney, I'll split that Brink's truck with you. Half a
Brinks truck is bettern than no Brinks truck at all. |
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I mean, sort of, semi, quasi seriously, this is the
kind of idea I throw away then see on SharkTank
making millions of dollars a few years later. |
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If I were at Disneyland with the kids, I would feel
like I didn't get my money's worth if we left
without seeing the "Firefly Fountains" tm,
copyright all rights reserved.Yes? No? Maybe? |
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//They wouldn't be as bright as I had hoped for// |
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They can be. A good phosphor will emit a great amount of light for a few seconds after being zapped. |
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//But Max, if you can sell the combo of our ideas to Disney, I'll split that Brink's truck with you. // I'll settle for 5% as (a) you did the hard part and (b) you'll be the one banging on Mr. Disney's door. |
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//They wouldn't be as bright as I had hoped for// |
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They can be. A good phosphor will emit a great amount of light for a few seconds after being zapped. |
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//But Max, if you can sell the combo of our ideas to Disney, I'll split that Brink's truck with you. // I'll settle for 5% as (a) you did the hard part and (b) you'll be the one banging on Mr. Disney's door. |
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They won’t twinkle as a phosphorescent thing, and color
choice could be limited. Hmm... there must be some
simple way... |
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I’m still thinking a charge pad in the fountain somehow,
and a reliable capacitor. |
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//you'll be the one banging on Mr. Disney's door.// |
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I actually have links to Disney. They own my
publishing. |
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Very very very different department. |
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//They won’t twinkle as a phosphorescent thing, and color choice could be limited. // |
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True, apart from those two points. |
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(1) For twinkle, just have black and phosphorescent sectors of the sphere. |
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(2) For colours, you can get yellow, green, red, blue, orange, purple... any others you'd like? |
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It occurs to me, people have done the whole "water
and lights" thing before with candles floating down a
river. Not sure where I saw that but I'm sure it's been
done somewhere and it looked really cool. I'll see if I
can find a link. |
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Well well, take your pick. Light up balls either
fluorescent or LED are right their on line. Just
throw them in a properly configured fountain and
viola! (see links) |
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Idea simplification - no complicated ball
accomodating pump system needed, just have the
balls fall into a large funnel around the base of the
fountain, have the balls directed into the stream
via channels where the high pressure water stream
grabs the ball, propells it upwards so the next ball
moves into its place and likewise gets thrown up
into the air. |
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Same exact effect, no tricky mechanism needed. |
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Some Oriental cultures have a tradition of floating candle lanterns down rivers ... might be some sort of commemoration of the dead ? |
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Sounds like an idea the eastern candle businesses
came up with. "You need to throw thousands of
pieces of our product in the river. You don't want to
dishonor your ancestors do you?" |
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[doctorremulac] If you would like your millions from Disney a "microentity" patent is only $70 at uspto.gov |
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Those are very cool but I don't qualify. I've already
got a few patents so I file under "small entity
status". |
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My favorite patent office innovation is the really
cheap "provisional patent" that gives you 12
months to claim your priority for an invention for
about a hundred bucks. (I believe I've mentioned
these before.) My guess is it was inspired by the
old wive's tale that you could claim date of
invention of something by creating a written
description of it and sending it in an envelope to
yourself through the mail, the postmark being
proof that you invented the enclosed invention by
that date. (Of course nobody would ever be able to
open an envelope and put something in later by
just sending themselves and unsealed envelope.)
The idea however is sound if you have somebody
else receive the idea and hold it on file which is
what the patent office does. |
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Once the description is in the files of the patent
office, you have 12 months to file an official
patent that actually gets reviewed and approved
or rejected, but if you get it, you're protected
from the date of priority established by the
provisional patent sent earlier. 12 months should
also be enough time
to see if anybody would buy your idea in the
marketplace. |
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If I were to go for this, that's what I'd do. Keep it
cheap until the market is established. If Mickey
flips me the middle finger of his puffy white glove,
I'm only out a few bucks. |
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Next step after you've established a market is to
get your product made in China, and I'm speaking
from experience, at that point welcome to hell.
And good luck hanging onto your sanity. |
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Luckily I have little martians living in my head
using little shock paddles on my brain, otherwise
I'd
have gone nuts a long time ago. |
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Wow, LED golf balls are a real thing. See video link.
They've got motion activated or light activated. |
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[doc], one thing* has always puzzled me. Your username is [doctorremulac3], but it's actually spelled "Remulak", according to the infallible internet. So, does that mean that there were two other guys who spelled it "Remulac" before you got there? |
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*This is of course a gross misunderstatement. There are, at last count, 1437 things that puzzle me. There used to be 1458, but I am slowly working my way through the list. |
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//specifically The Place Where The Sun Does Not Shine. |
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It will look better in the dark.// |
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I'll set'm up and you knock'm home. |
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//So, does that mean that there were two other
guys who spelled it "Remulac" before you got
there?// |
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Well, three actually. Here's the very boring story. |
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There was a character on this radio show that
would call in and just say "I am doctor
Remulak" over and over. The day I heard that show
I was setting up an email address and needing a
seldom used word to name it, I tried
"doctorremulac" not knowing (or caring) that the
character spells his name with a K. That was
taken, so I tried "doctorremulac1", that was taken
as well. Took till 3 to find one that was available. |
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Subsequently, I had been driving down a street rife
with speed-bumps and wondered if a cornstarch
and water filled affair, that was soft if you drove
over it slowly, might make me some kind of super
rich speed bump mogul. I searched and found the
custard filled speed bump and decided this site
looked like an interesting place to drop into now
and then. I was prompted to come up with a login
name and since I didn't want to have a different
ficticious name for every site I went to, there you
are. |
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I assumed I'd come onto the site for a month or
two and lose interest so I really didn't give a lot of
thought to the user name. That was 13 years ago. |
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Happy to have reduced your list to 1,436. |
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// I didn't want to have a different ficticious name for every site I went to // |
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Sloppy ... that just makes it easier to hunt you down and stalk you ... |
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// reduced your list to 1,436. // |
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You're behind the curve. We've just added a couple of new ones ... |
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//Here's the very boring story. // |
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Maybe a similar approach could be used for naming
babies. Just have an algorithm take each name in turn,
and try "Name1", "Name2".... until it finds a number that's
not taken as an email address. The name with the
highest number wins (or loses). |
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//We've just added a couple of new ones// In general,
Borg-related problems don't make it into my list, on the
grounds that they are often Borg-specific and, in any
case, insoluble. |
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I'd always assumed it was an anagram of "MacLure". |
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//I'd always assumed it was an anagram of "MacLure".//
How could it be? There's no "3" in MacLure. |
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//Also getting your millions from Disney might
go well with having them at the gift shop, with
little
LED hearts on them so couples could express
affection and throw them in the fountain together.
The lights in the fountain would grow and grow// |
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Wonder if you could make a biodegradable light up
floating thing so people could throw them in
rivers, lakes, waterfalls and the like at night. |
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Charge $20 a pop for them and then watch the
look on the girl's face when the boyfriend says
"Naa, that's too expensive." They'll be back shortly
after about an hour of "What's wrong?" "Nothing,
I'm glad you saved $20 on our $5,000 trip to Niagra
Falls.". |
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The smart move would be to say "I'll take ten
please." |
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You know, really the easiest version of this would be the
thing I referred to about just having little mirrored pieces
of
plastic. If they were small enough you could just dump
them
in any fountain that had bright lights aimed at the water
column and you'd get a sparkly effect as they rotated and
swirled about. |
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Of course any inventor has to consider liability and make
sure the design wouldn't clog the pumps or kill seagulls or
any other stupid bird or animal (or human for that
matter)
that's attracted to shiny objects. |
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// you'd get a sparkly effect as they rotated and swirled about. // |
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Or you could just look at a regular fountain after taking a couple of these little tablets ? Only $5 each, or $20 for five... |
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But I think that method is pretty well baked. |
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Wow if you paid $5k to visit Niagara Falls you must've
stayed in some kind of swanky place. |
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Can somebody please click on the link to this
"product" and tell me if it's my fountain idea? |
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It says "Sparkle Fountain" that includes "Water
sounds, sparkle effect & on / off switch." |
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Note that it's not a photo of something, it's a very
poor quality 3D rendering. If there's any
confusion about what the hell this thing they're
selling for L$150 is, they've cleard that up by
saying |
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"A lovely decoration for any garden. Also comes
with an On/Off switch so if SL is giving
you lag your fountain can easily be switched off." |
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Since they reference "Water sounds" I don't know if
those are created by water or something else.
Usually you don't refer to a product emitting
(insert name of product here) sounds. |
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"For sale motorcycle, emits genuine motorcycle
sounds. Has off switch in case of SL lag whatever
that might be." |
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You guys are smart, what am I missing here? |
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I believe, [doc], that what is being offered for sale there is a virtual fountain. |
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What if the liquid in the fountain was a concentrated solution of Radium salts ? |
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Yep, the key here is 'second life.' Virtual world for
people who either messed up their real lives too
much or got bored with them or something. |
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//I believe, [doc], that what is being offered
for sale there is a virtual fountain// |
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Like an 3d file for video game or something right?
That crossed my mind due to the fact that there's
no
photograph of an actual fountain but isn't $150 a
lot
to charge for something that would probably be
given
away at other sites? |
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But yup, you're right. I had clicked on another page
on the site and it looked like what they were
selling was actual merchandise but looking at
other stuff, yea. |
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Ok, thank you Max, that's what I come here for,
second opinions. That and the flame wars. Those
are good too. |
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//isn't $150 a lot to charge// |
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I think it's actually L$150, whatever that is. |
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I think it might be come kind of virtual money that
that website uses. The SL they refer to might be
talking about how if the fountain is screwing up a
scene you're using it in you can switch it off so it
doesn't use as much processing power or
something. |
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Anyway, not my fountain, just an animated
fountain that looks sparkly, that's all I cared about. |
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Thanks all. I'm asking because I'm thinking it might
be worth looking into the possibility of considering
making a prototype of the simplist version of this
idea. Little plastic confetti that would fit through
a regular fountain pump with no modification,
then made to sparkle by a bright light or series of
lasers at the bottom of the fountain nozzle. |
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I think any sparkle from the confetti would be overwhelmed by the sparkle from the water itself. |
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Good point, the water drops themselves are little mirrors. |
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" Little plastic confetti that would fit through a regular fountain pump with no modification " |
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Sounds more to me like the result of a failure cause analysis - " Little plastic confetti contaminated pump mechanism " |
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But I haven't seen the design specs and test reports, so further deponent sayeth not. |
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Your best solution might be to just put fluorescein in the fountain and light it with a strong long-wave UV source. Fluorescein is cheap by the kilo, and at high concentrations it is very, very bright under UV. |
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But that has to have been done no? |
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The only thing I could find was the very un-impressive thing
in the link. |
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What I'm wanting is basically a sustainable fireworks
fountain. As bright as possible. |
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Isn't this idea meant to be about a _Firefly_ Fountain? |
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Build a fountain with two heads, connected to two separate water
supplies. |
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Add a luciferin to one supply and a corresponding luciferase to the
other. |
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When two droplets collide, they will mix, leading to light-emitting
reactions winking into existence at random points in the air. |
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The water at the bottom of the fountain will glow, too, as the
unreacted luciferin meets the enzyme. |
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It might even be possible to create a multi-coloured fountain using
more than two heads. |
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Well yea, that would literally be the firefly without the fly
part, just its glow juice. |
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I'm wanting brighter though. Don't know why, just do. |
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You could add little pellets of potassium, coated in a soluble gel. As soon as the water dissolves its way through the gel, you'd get a little bang and a flash. Running costs might be high, though. |
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// little pellets of potassium // |
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AHAHAHA ! HAHAHAHAHA ! MUHWHAHHAHHAHA ! |
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Why "little pellets" ? Why not "big lumps" ? |
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I'm wondering what the coating could be. Clearly not a water-based gel (like gelatin or agar). Would potassium react with molten sugar? I suspect it might. |
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Maybe potassium pellets coated with lithium. I think the lithium would react slowly enough to let the pellets disperse before the water reached the potassium. |
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Well, potassium's a powerful reducing agent; it's going to rip the oxygen off anything it can. |
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What about hot-dipping it in molten potassium chloride ? That would be inert to the potassium metal, but soluble in water. |
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K melts at 65 C, KCl at over 600. The answer would be to pour a closed tube of KCl, let it set, fill it with molten K, again let it cool, then seal it with more molten KCl. |
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Automate the process and do it in a dry Argon atmosphere. |
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For a cheap version, do the same thing with Na and NaCl. |
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Gotta be cheap and safe. Disney's gotta want a
dozen of them at every location. |
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Maintenance has to be the same as any other
fountain. Dump some chlorine in, that's it. No
recharging with chemicals that react for the effect
then need to be replaced. |
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Relatively expensive one time, cheap from then
on. |
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Might be getting back to the inductive rechargable
plastic balls with flashers in them. They do
whatever you want and after hours sit on the
bottom getting recharged. You can even have them
remotely controlled so they dance to music or
whatever. |
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You'd have to keep people away from them or
they'd take them home as souvenirs. |
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I liked the idea of dumping some kind of mirrored
confetti in and illuminating it but as Max pointed
out, you've got thousand of little mirrors flying
around in the form of water droplets already so
there's probably not much to be gained. |
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If you want cheap and bright and low-maintenance, fluorescein is the way to go. If you have your longwave UV lights piped into the water jet, the water will act as a light pipe, illuminating the entire stream internally and quite efficiently. Some UV beams could also illuminate the falling droplets. |
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I don't think you'll find anything else which is cheaper, brighter or low-maintenancer. |
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Yea, that is something that should be explored.
Still can't believe nobody's done that. People love glowing
water when nature does it
with fluorescent algae. |
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How about fluorescein contained in little balls so
you still get the "star" effect rather than the water
itself glowing? I think to get the full effect of the
glow you'd need it to be set against a darker
background, in this case the water of fountain. |
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THAT might be the way to go. Actually, that IS the
way to go. Ok, so it might not be dazzling bright
but the difference between thousands of little
mechanisms and just balls filled with stuff is
substantial. You make them small enough that they
won't clog a standard pond pump, I assume they
use impeller pumps. No reason you can't make the
balls small enough to flow through these. Then just sell
them boxes of these things. |
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See link to get idea what little fluorescein balls in
water look like using natures examples of glowing
bits in water. |
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Looking at the waves that break and light up, is
there a way to copy that mechanism? You could sent the
water with glowing bits up in a
laminar flow water column then when it broke
apart at the top the magical glow bits would light
up. |
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I guess you could just grow bioluminescent
dinoflagellates in a pond and do whatever's
necessary to make them glow. Have fountains,
waterfalls etc. Shouldn't be too hard to culture
these things. Then you've got the repeating income of
water
preperation chemicals, bioluminescent
dinoflagellate food, whatever that is. "Super
bioluminescent dinoflagellate vitamin mix with 8
essential nutrients and vitamins that
bioluminescent dinoflagellates crave." |
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I can see it now. (two shapely women by the pool
at an expensive resort) "Who's that hot older
gentleman who's not at all gross despite pushing
60?" |
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"THE Doctorremulac3? The Super bioluminescent
dinoflagellate vitamin mix with 8 essential
nutrients and vitamins that bioluminescent
dinoflagellates crave mogul? That Doctorremulac3?
Oh my God, I'm going to faint." |
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If you build it on Vieques Island [link] then all you'll have to do is pump
water from the sea through the fountain. That sounds relatively low-
maintenance. |
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An annular eductor should be able to handle the balls
easily. See
[link]. |
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Put a microcontroller, RGB LEDs, and a capacitor in each
ball.
Charge them inductively in the pump intake, as previously
mentioned, but also communicate with them via NFC or
IR. Use
this to ask them how long they were airborne (for
calibration) and
tell them what sequence of colors to display when next
launched
(for animation without needing inter-ball
communication). |
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Laminar water streams will support TIR. Shine a light into
it from
behind the nozzle, and fill the water with some
(preferably
environmentally friendly) glitter. It will sparkle in the
stream and
the splashdown zone will also glow. |
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Regarding the Second Life fountain, doesn't that page
clearly say "Second Life Marketplace" and "This item will
be delivered directly to you or a friend in Second Life,
unpacked and ready to use. No land or sandbox
required."? And L$ is the Linden Dollar, named after
Linden Lab, who created SL. See [link] for more info
about it. |
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