h a l f b a k e r y[marked-for-tagline]
add, search, annotate, link, view, overview, recent, by name, random
news, help, about, links, report a problem
browse anonymously,
or get an account
and write.
register,
|
|
|
Please log in.
Before you can vote, you need to register.
Please log in or create an account.
|
I propose an experiment that should allow quicker terraforming of almost any environment.
I'll use mars as an example, although this could be done for any environment that allows survival of almost any imaginable form of bacteria. i.e. it has to be above the freezing temperature of something that
can float some form of DNA or RNA sometimes.
First take the best adapted bacteria for the environment. In the case of Mars bacteria that can reproduce better than others in a dry, irradiated, low pressure environment.
Make a habitat for that kind of bacteria. A box with water in it. (somehow keep the water from escaping) The box should also have an eco-system for the bacteria, something that deals with the waste product unless that waste product is oxygen in which case it can be vented and replaced with more carbon dioxide from the atmosphere.
There should be a huge graduated space between the box and the bare martian soil. Bacteria that evolve to survive a harsher environment get to expand into new space and not have competition for resources.
If the box can maintain a decent environment long enough it's inevitable that working bacteria will find their way out into the martian landscape. Being able to survive and reproduce there they'll set about changing the environment.
Perhaps someone *has*
http://profiles.nlm...s/access/SCBCCP.pdf
[mouseposture, Sep 03 2011]
Partially baked: NASA paper.
http://astrobiology...tian-environments-2
NASA already on the case (but simulated, not actually on Mars) [monojohnny, Sep 03 2011]
waterbears.............
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tardigrade
[not_morrison_rm, Sep 05 2011]
Earth organisms that could survive and reproduce on Mars
http://www.planetar...e-survive-mars.html
[Voice, Sep 27 2013]
[link]
|
| |
But a load of these on some old MIRV warheads, fire, forget
... [several millenia later] ... retrieve results |
|
| |
Why not do it the other way'round ? simulate planet <x>'s environment and grow bacteria that can survive there: cheaper. |
|
| |
That, [ft] is an infinitely more sensible idea. I
wonder if anyone has tried it? Do we know enough
about the Martian environments? |
|
| |
// I wonder if anyone has tried it?// <link> |
|
| |
Yep. One paper, admittedly an old (1978) one,
concluded "based upon current information, no
environmental model of Mars has been proposed
that would preclude growth of terrestrial organisms
on the surface of Mars, although the probability of
such growth is admittedly small." |
|
| |
Question: would it be cheaper to build a virtual model of
this and let a supercomputer run through every possible
scenario than to actually send a box of bacteria to mars
and wait two years for their arrival, only to discover that
they ate each other out of sheer boredom only six months
into the journey? |
|
| |
Considering that even the much simpler
computations required to actually navigate a
physical mars probe can harbor unsuspected
bugs*, the simulation approach, while cheaper,
might also be less accurate. Modeling's fine when
it's known that there are no unknown unknowns. |
|
| |
*e.g. the notorious Mars Orbiter Imperial/Metric
fiasco. |
|
| |
The discovery of boredom in bacteria, however,
would be worth a Nobel, at least. |
|
| |
//would it be cheaper to build a virtual model of this and let a supercomputer run through every possible scenario// |
|
| |
To kind-of expand on what [mouse] said: part of the cost of building a computer model of something is in making sure that your model gives results that accurately reflect reality. To build a decent model, on the one hand you have to do a load of programming, but on the other hand you have to run a whole bunch of experiments, both in the model and in reality, and check how the results match up. |
|
| |
To expand on what [Wrongfellow] said, biology isn't
physics (yet): you'll find a range of opinions on "Are
models useful?" with, of course, the theoreticians
favoring "yes" and the experimentalists more
skeptical. On the question "What are models good
for in biology," both experimentalists *and*
theoreticians, will agree that "as a cheap substitute
for experiments" is not the correct answer. |
|
| |
//Resistance to UV radiation is difficult to find in Earth's bacteria.// |
|
| |
Waterbears? Or was that just radiation in general and not high UV? |
|
| |
Yeah, I'd agree regarding models in biology. Real
systems are very difficult to model in much more
than a qualitative way ("if this goes up, this should
go down"), and even then they're often wrong. |
|
| |
Mussolini's short-lived attempt at reviving the
Roman Empire wasn't laughable to the people
whose countries he conquered. The
Ethiopians had an insulting name for the hated
invaders, based on their wine rations, issued in 5
deciliter bottles, which, for portability and
protection against breakage, were wrapped in
straw. A rare surviving example, in the National
Museum in Adis Ababa, is labeled //Imperial
Metric Fiasco// |
|
| |
Better out than in. We now return you to your
regularly scheduled programming. |
|
| |
[+]. While I think this is a good idea, probably the long gradient will be tough to implement. Like, how do you have a near vacuum one end of the box, and atmospheric pressure at the other? You would need a series of interlocks, or something like that. So instead of one continuous gradient, you would have many discrete small environments, that are opened up periodically to exchange bacteria. |
|
| |
Activate interlocks! Dynotherms connected! Infracells up! Megathrusters are GO!! |
|
| |
GO MARTIAN BACTERIAL INVASION SIMULATRON! |
|
| |
//how do you have a near vacuum one end of the box, and atmospheric pressure at the other?// |
|
| |
Put it in a really, really, really fast centrifuge? |
|
| |
Or wait a really, really long time. |
|
| |
Or use a really, really tall box? |
|
| |
How about instead of a box with all that stuff we use a continent, because it has all that stuff. Like the dry Antarctic. Instead of a huge graduated space we use an ocean, because its huger, and it is also already here. |
|
| |
// Mussolini's short-lived attempt at reviving the Roman
Empire wasn't laughable to the people whose countries he
conquered. // |
|
| |
It wasn't that funny to the majority of Italians, for that
matter. It's hard to laugh when you're starving to death. |
|
| |
You'd probably want to start with lichens rather than
bacteria. |
|
| |
Yes, it's a symbiotic organism, which means both
have to evolve, but it's already adapted for harsh
conditions, and it's photosynthetic, so it would move
towards creating an oxygen atmosphere. |
|
| |
A shame the first three links no longer seem to go where they originally did. |
|
| |