h a l f b a k e r yPoof of concept
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The sound of a supercar is one of its main attractions.
I propose a W-type engine arrangement, where each V has a separate crankshaft and is separately geared in such a way that one side runs at a slightly different RPM to the other.
This would cost more, weigh more and probably be detrimental
to performance. However, we would essentially have dual oscillators as our sound source, and as anyone who has played with a synthesizer can testify, more oscillators means a thicker, more lustrous sound.
With sufficient gearing between them you could adjust the detuning.
what it possibly could sound like
http://mitxela.com/...eo/engineChorus.mp3
A clip from Ayrton Senna's 1992 Honda V12, it plays the original, then detuned 0.1%, then 20% (about four semitones). [mitxela, May 08 2014]
Karlheinz Stockhausen
http://en.wikipedia...rlheinz_Stockhausen
Not the most "accessible" of composers ... [8th of 7, May 08 2014]
F1 CVT
http://www.f1fanati...e-transmission-cvt/
[bs0u0155, May 09 2014]
Trombone_20Exhaust
[spidermother, May 09 2014]
[link]
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[+] nice! Made me think of another idea, related,
but maybe already baked? Yes, baked a millions
times, so added, deleted, moving along. |
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oh, very nice. I imagine this as having two manual
gear boxes (already super complex and cool). Using
these you could alter the interval between the two.
So I could drive around making a power chord or
maybe a diminished fourth. |
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Oooh - this means that your car could sound like a
Wellington bomber. |
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You'd need a finely variable, rather than fixed,
gearing between the two halves, so that the sounds
can drift through their phase changes at varying
rates. |
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Why not have two V8 engines, one driving each rear wheel? It means you can dispense with a differential which should prove a saving in weight and complexity. |
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That would give you your phase drift as you turn in and out of corners; the subtle difference between tyres would add to the interest. |
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//can dispense with a differential which should
prove a saving in weight and complexity// |
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Absolutely, throw out that differential, complex
maintenance hungry thing. Just get in another
engine, and gearbox!! |
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What [FlyingToaster] said. |
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Could something similar be achieved with a trombone-style adjustable twin exhaust system? |
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Or perhaps each piston could be connected to the crankshaft via its own gearbox? |
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Yes, definitely. Ordinarily I'm not a fan of CVTs, but
they could be useful here if you had a manually
controlled CVT for each engine. I assume you would
want separate throttle control as well. Maybe the
gas pedal can operate both in parallel when it is
pushed down, but respond to sideways pressure or
something to apply more power to one engine or
the other. Of course you'll want a trim adjustment
as well so you can adjust the default power balance. |
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The problem with using CVTs of course is the
wellington bomber effect as [Max] said. Some
people might find fixed harmonics to be more
pleasing. Run the engines with a selectable gear
ratio of 2:3, 3:4, 4:5, 5:6, 6:7 and 7:8 between
them, then put the output of the two through
your standard gearbox and transmission. |
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Okay, now I want to know what that would sound
like, but I don't have time to find some engine
sounds, adjust the timing and mix them. |
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You'd probably have a horrendous beat that would be
difficult to prevent from destroying things over time.
Vibrations are generally bad things for engines,
mounts, etc, despite how they sound. |
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// your car could sound like a Wellington bomber. // |
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Wellington good (2 x Merlin X), Lancaster better (4 x Merlin XXIV) ... |
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//Vibrations are generally bad for engines// The added(/subtracted) vibrations take place outside the engine, wherever you've got the exhausts linked together, or outside the vehicle entirely if they're totally separate exhausts. |
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There should be a partial bypass of the exhausts, that join up and go through a resonator(s) tuned to (a multiple of) the beating frequency. |
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Yes, a CVT between them would be ideal. There has probably never been a better use for a CVT. |
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//trombone-style adjustable twin exhaust system// Ha! - that almost warrants its own idea. Interestingly the flared end of brass instruments has a huge effect on the harmonic spectrum, it "fills in" the missing overtones. I wonder what it would do to an engine, or indeed the eardrums of those nearby. |
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//find some engine sounds, adjust the timing and mix them// I actually had a go at that when I first thought of this. [link] I'm not convinced it's quite what the real thing would sound like though, as we're detuning everything in the recording, whereas the resonances of the manifolds would be the same... I suppose it comes back to which point the exhausts should mix. |
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I wonder who has composed and arranged for motor orchestra - a parking lot full of tractors, race cars, motorcycles and weed whackers... |
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Stockhausen would be the first guess. |
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A CVT operating under supercar torque loads?
Good luck with that... |
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The added / subtracted vibrations are propagated
through the driveline, engine mounts, etc. You'd
be generally shocked at how much work we put in
to mitigating really bad vibrations so that your cars
bits don't a: drive your hands crazy through the
steering wheel or b: randomly destroy rubber bits
like the suspension. Chasing vibrations around a
car is like herding cats. |
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//A CVT operating under supercar torque loads?
Good luck with that... // |
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Williams cracked it <link>. F1 cars have supercar
levels don't they? |
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But to be fair, it was probably disposable, as are their current gearboxes... |
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They have to keep them for 6 races, that's 2000 km.
That's better than my brother's first car. |
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// Could something similar be achieved with a trombone-style adjustable twin exhaust system?// |
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That would give a different effect; they would enhance existing frequencies rather than alter the fundamental. |
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//20% (about four semitones)// |
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A 20% increase gives a 4:5 ratio; a pleasing interval in its own right, as [scad] said. |
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