h a l f b a k e r y"It would work, if you can find alternatives to each of the steps involved in this process."
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Okay, knowing absolutely nothing about the suicidal, I have no justifiable reason as to how this could work.
If someone were to commit suicide, however, why not allow it to be for the benifit of others? Why not create a suicide that would allow for something such as, say, organ donation?
Now,
before you start throwing things at me, read on for a sec.
I'm not saying that suicide is a worthwhile pursuit or that it's downright wrong, I've just been thinking that a guy I knew who killed himself was an organ donor, and that much indicates that he wanted to do a bit of good should he die in circumstances that would allow it.
A person who did want to die and still provide a heart/kidney/liver for somebody else, why not allow them to kill themselves in such a manner as that the organs would not be spoiled by being left for a few days, drugs, etc. This person would, if this were legal/allowed approach a doctor, sign a 'yes i'm sure' paper and then be medically killed. No, not by removing all the organs as the title suggests.
Go ahead, bone away, I'm not expecting any croissants.
(?) How dead do you have to be to have your organs harvested?
http://www.straight...lassics/a2_420.html
Good question. [froglet, Jul 22 2006]
(?) thanks for sharing
http://s2.photobuck...rrent=necrocard.jpg
[jaksplat, Aug 19 2008]
[link]
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I think this has other benefits. Firstly, I find it astonishing that people choose to commit suicide in such painful and sometimes messy ways. Also a failed suicide can often be fairly bad, especially from jumping off a tall (but not tall enough) building or climbing into the gorilla enclosure wearing banana underpants. |
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Also, people would have time to reflect on whether this is really what they want to do as they're sipping orange juice in a hospital bed watching Oprah. |
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On a slight tangent (yes, pedant, you get those in my warped universe) a common cause of suicides is lack of purpose or self worth so you could assign dangerous yet heroic tasks to would be suicidal folk, those that die would be remembered fondly (although probably not over an open coffin) and those that survive would have a renewed sense of purpose and possibly have a new respect for life. |
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<obscure quote>To shreds you say? My, my</obscure quote> |
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I give in, where did the quote come from? Sounds like a reply to Snake in Metal Gear Solid 2 when he proclaims 'I'll shred you to pieces'. |
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"And how is his wife holding up?....To shreds you say?..." |
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They could go to a facility where they would be shown lovely movies of grass and trees and wide open spaces while pretty young attendants make them comfortable. A sumptuous last meal would be served. Some gas or an IV with morphine or whatever would make the passing gentle and happy. |
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And then the body parts could be donated or processed in to many useful products. |
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We could call it the Soilent Bakery... |
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Seriously, people are much more usefull, at this point, as tax paying, long distance commuting, hard working, citizens or in military service, helping to support our country, its goals, wars and way of life. |
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Just driving to and from work is going to kill 1 out of every 84 of us (so says National Geographics this month) or about 60,000 each year (50,000 on the hyways as per the US D.O.T. with at least another 10,000 or so on local roads). Why not make organ donation a requirement for a drivers licence? By next year you could have 60,000 hearts, 60,000 livers, 180,000 lungs, eyes, etc... |
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Anyone who wants to commit suicide and also be of use could just join the US military as thousands of young men with no other future from Kent MI are doing this very year. The organs are sometimes hard to use after being blown to hell in Iraq, but there can be no doubt that this form of suicide is appreciated by Hummer owners all over the USA. |
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Baked 2,554 times as of.... |
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Out of curiosity [James Newton] how many lungs do you have? Last time I checked, I only had 2. Is there someone out there with 4 to balance things out? |
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What you are suggesting just sounds like bog standard euthanasia [froggie]. If you want to leave your organs in a usable state, then try to kill yourself in such a way that will leave them intact. |
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Good catch on the quote [fridge]. I was puzzling over that one for a few minutes. |
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Yes, 60,000 times two is 120,000, not 180,000. Thanks for pointing that out. But hey, what's a few thousand human lungs between friends? |
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And honestly, auto accidents are probably going to leave the organs in less that ideal condition (as you point out) so perhaps only 100,000 lungs or so per year... |
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In fairness, for each death, there's probably a seriously injured passenger in need of organs. |
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My understanding is that for each death there are several serious injuries. |
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I don't think our societies have yet reached the level of maturity sufficient to respect the wishes of someone who wants to die. The moment I see a physically healthy person signing the 'Why yes, I am sure. Why do you ask?' release, I would recommend them for psychological help rather than a nice morphine cocktail. Wouldn't you? |
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Aw, man. And I really wanted that nice morphine cocktail. If I promise to go with that nice young man in the pretty white coat can I have it later, [methinksnot]? |
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The _only_ redeeming glint on this Idea comes from [marklar]'s assertion on the futility of the act of self-destruction. Most people don't want to die, they want to be found alive rather than dead. Many of those who may want to die now, are easily "convinced" they are better off when revived, so I guess they really wanted to be found regardless of what they said hours before. There are others who know what we want to hear, and have a "plan B" or alibi for if they're found; repeaters have a higher success rate than first timers when planning their deaths. |
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Given the uncertainty built into the gesture, most suicide attempts occur without any thought given to what life might be like with one kidney, or a liver functioning at 20%, wicked pneumonia or other infections, hearing loss, irreversible poor circulation or arthritis, not to mention divorce, bankruptcy, or collateral damage to others' lives. The only sure outcome of a suicide is loss of a life, either to death or to creation of a new chronic mental patient. |
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There would not be a shortage of organs or donors if more donors would step up. That is a whole other topic from what is discussed here, but the play on the above Idea is: create a program to solve the problems that underpin suicial ideation, but tie any offer of help to a request that one enrolled in the program agree to be an organ donor. Why? Even with targets to reach and full cooperation of participants, there can be no guarantees a program can succeed every time. |
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I propose that the suicidal simply be required to sing, whistle, and maybe scare the Romans (or whoever the oppresor du jour is.) |
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Oh, is it time to suggest that criminals on death row be forced to donate their organs? Then we can suggest the death penalty for crimes other than murder, such as child abuse, rape, armed robbery, drug trafficking, arson, speeding, jaywalking, littering, spitting on the sidewalk, engaging in frivolous lawsuits.... |
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There are a lot of noble ways to be suicidal. Why not create a list of those so motivated and send then on kamikaze missions. Need to plug the nuclear reactor? Want a test subject for a HB invention? Pull someone off the list. |
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It wouldn't even have to be noble. I imagine there are plenty of jobs where it would be cheaper to send someone to their death than to pay for the life support required to bring them back safely. A stipend can be paid to the family or a charity. Suicidal you say? Sounds like it's time to capitalize! |
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the only problem with this is that it takes a lot of planning and forethought. As someone who has considered/attempted, I know that going to a doctor and dealing with paperwork and all that crap is the last thing you're going to do. You want to get out of this world, not go and ask nicely for a handful of pills. You want to do something bold, something that will change your situation, not go ask the nice man for a euthanasia please. |
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There's also the problem that people could be forced into signing papers. And the problem that being suicidal is a form of "mentally unsound," so they're going to make you sane before they let you sign forms. I can't give you a name, but there have been assisted suicide places over the years. They were shut down as sick and twisted. Because "those people" need help being forced to live, not help doing what they want, oh no. |
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[+] anyway.. the thought is good. |
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what if the people who would receive the organs asked them not to do it? after all he/she is throwing away something that they desire greatly. Furthermore they might know a thing or two about pain, hope, and the desire to live another day. Think about it. I wouldn't want my life extended at the sacrifice of another unless I had done everything in my power to prevent it. |
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There's a substantial legal problem with this which i don't think anyone's mentioned, in my country anyway. Someone who has died without having seen a doctor recently has to have an autopsy. Even if that weren't true, the possibility of suspicious circumstances has to be ruled out, for purely ethical reasons, which again means an autopsy. Otherwise, this situation could lead to more people getting away with murder by making it look like suicide. |
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Also, what about non-depressives committing suicide? Some people are going to want to kill themselves in such a way that their bodies are going to be rendered useless. If they're already terminally ill and choose to kill themselves, for example, they may want to do it in a particular way which destroys all their organs instantly. Maybe they should be discouraged, but in the end it is their life. |
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There's another substantial legal problem with this which I don't think anyone's mentioned. In order to sign the release you would have to be of 'sound' mind. If you are suicidal you are, ipso facto, not of sound mind (under English law anyway - calum may correct me on this) and therefore the 'donor' cannot legally sign the waiver. |
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If this is so, it might still be possible to make an advance directive and then get a donor card, while considered sane, i.e. before becoming suicidal, and get a mental health professional to testify one was sane in advance. Apparently this is called a "Ulysses Pact". That would still leave the problem of the coroner. |
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I think there is only one anno that mentions he possibility that people of sound mind may choose suicide. I realize this is the rarity, but it happens. I personally will be attempting immortality but there are circumstances where I think suicide is a viable option due to the belief that quality of life is more important than quantity. Alzheimers, bone cancer, some of the nastier nerve attacking illnesses, etc. I think if I choose of sound mind and body that I would rather die than live in excrutiating pain, I should have that option, and if possible I'd like to spread a little life with my death. |
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So since it can only be signed by someone after psychiactric counceling, I'm going to bun. |
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Hi. I am new here. Just wanted to mention that I am reading a book by Jack Kevorkian prior to his lock up titled "Prescrition Medicine". I am half way through it and so far he is discussing organ donation by death row inmates. The publishing date states 1991. However, no one in authority including no MDs want to touch the subject according to Kevorkian. Interesting also is the fact that a lot of the non-death row prisoners would agree to organ donation "death" rather than spend long periods of time in prison. Later I will write more after finishing the book. I think suicide organ donation is a good idea,but as has been discussed that raises all sorts of issues.
Thanks |
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Hello and welcome, [Van_Gogh]. I would consider the problem with that to be the existence of the death penalty, though the life imprisonment angle is interesting and i hadn't heard that before. I wonder, though, how many people would be left in that situation if certain other things were changed, and a particular issue there seems to be the question of the mental health of the inmates, either in connection with how they ended up in prison or after a long period inside. |
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[MisterQED], i agree wholeheartedly. It seems very odd to me that the majority of people who commit suicide seem to be depressed. There are a lot of other reasons for doing so that rarely appear as motives. For example, it makes perfect sense for an ecstatic person to commit suicide on the grounds of wanting to die happy or because nothing could ever be as good as their life was at that moment. It could also be done as a protest or a piece of performance art. |
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Considering these alternative suicides, although there may still be legal complications, i wonder if the organs would still be useful. For instance, post-hunger strike or self-combusted organs are not going to be any use, but Mathilde's from 'The Hairdresser's Husband' would be, and after an act of seppuku, swift action could preserve those organs too. |
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In fact, in Mathilde's case maybe her bloodstream was utterly suffused with happiness chemicals and having her organs would lead to similar joy. In which case... |
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In the UAE there is an interesting system of blood money the Arabs use to protect themselves and family relatives from their dangerous driving. Unfortunately, it provides a monetary reward to the family of the vicitms of car accidents in the event that the driver at fault can afford it. We are talking about $100K for a death to avoid a jail sentence. What happens is Indians who come to dubai and work in awful slavelike conditions who decide tol kill themselves, jump in front of expensive cars so their family can take the payout. How nice. |
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As a person who is very depressed (God I hate that word) I would LOVE to be able to go to a nice place (or my bedroom) and be euthanized, with the understanding that my organs would be harvested. |
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Down in the depths I have often thought how nice it would be if I could trade places with someone who was dying--give them my body so that they could be with their family a bit longer. |
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It does frustrate me that in order to end your life, your only options are very messy (which is awful for survivors) and/or are painful (why should my exit be painful when life is so painful already?) |
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You make a great suggestion... From your lips to God's ears. |
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i think we have a jumper.. or an emo. people who say things like that usually don't want to die. they just want to feel sorry for themselves. if that isnt the case, [veryvermilion], then im sorry, and it appears you really should seek help. seriously, it sounds like you could use someone to talk to. you probably know my email already, and if u dont its (flashmakerawesome@yahoo.com). talk 2 me if you need somebody. |
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