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The city I live in has gone a wee bit pedestrian-happy. I guess that's not a bad thing but the wait times at some of the crossings are Way more than excessive.
I would like to see cancel crosswalk buttons for after a pedestrian has crossed. Anyone still waiting to cross can reengage the signal and
since drivers are already stopped they will not mow down anyone still in the walkway if the signal shuts off mid-crossing.
Everybody crosses safely and I'm not wasting fuel idling my vehicle for minutes just because some light is telling me I can't move even though the way has been clear for an excruciatingly long time.
On a side note; whomever is responsible for the decision to have cyclists ride with traffic rather than on sidewalks needs a slap upside the head.
Here's the rationale; cyclist vs. pedestrian = boo-boos, cyclist vs. thousand-pound-rolling-hammers = severe trauma.
Is it just Darwinism encouragement? Am I the only person who thinks riding in traffic is completely idiotic?
[link]
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//Am I the only person who thinks riding in traffic
is completely idiotic?// |
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However, I loathe cyclists who cycle on what are
supposed to be pedestrian-only footpaths. Yes,
there should be more dedicated cycle paths. But,
in the meantime, cyclists are traffic, and should
be with other traffic, and should act
appropriately. |
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Incidentally, I speak as both a driver and a cyclist.
Most of my near-misses on two wheels have been
through my own stupidity. Most of my near-
misses on four wheels have been through other
cyclists' stupidity. |
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As a pedestrian, cyclist, and driver, I appreciate
the generous margin of error given by (most, but
not all) traffic lights. It (in conjunction with traffic
cops) discourages twitchy drivers from jumping
the gun and causing an accident. |
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As an aside, around here people do bike on the
sidewalks (and get away with it) quite often,
especially during heavy traffic and in spots where
bike lanes are narrow, bumpy, poorly visible, or
non-existent. Pedestrians don't seem to mind as
bikers travel carefully, slowly, and far to the side
when on the sidewalk. Bicycling with traffic isn't
just scary, it is statistically more dangerous, so I
avoid it unless traffic is light. |
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Nothing against cyclists per se: I used to commute downtown and back (40km) each day to work, using mostly park paths, and all over the place of course when I was a kid. It's the ones that that take illegal and dangerous right-of-way that piss me off. |
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If a cyclist wants to weave his way through stopped traffic at a stoplight, more power to them: that's the advantage of being on a bicycle. If the cyclist wants to extend that so that they blow through a red light, causing an oncoming turning driver to have to slam on the brakes in order to avoid cycle-pizza, not so much. |
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An oft heard rejoinder from cyclists in regards to complaints about illegal practices is "Hey, do you as a driver come to a complete stop at every stop sign ?". To which the answer is "When there's a 40 tonne tractor trailer crossing the intersection in front of me, you're fucking right I do" (I actually do, but let's keep it simple). |
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//Bicycling with traffic isn't just scary, it is
statistically more dangerous, so I avoid it unless
traffic is light.// |
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Fair point. Which could also be made with regard to
motorcyclists. |
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In fact, driving a car on the footpath would reduce
your risk of colliding with a lorry quite a bit too. |
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Predictably all cyclists use the pavement in Japan, seems to work ok. |
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The way I see it, I had to earn a license to operate a vehicle on the roadways. The distinction needs to be made between motorised vehicle and human powered vehicle. |
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I can see bicycle delivery guys freaking out over being restricted to sidewalks so the compromise would be to need a valid operators' license in order to take any vehicle out on the street
Pedestrians have automatic right-of-way over cyclists off-road, and the consequence of losing one's license for cycling without responsibility on the roads could be enforced. |
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As for the grass getting a bit chewed up by bicycles veering off the sidewalk around people... I'd just ask how many gardeners could my tax dollars employ for the cost of a single doctor to piece together a mowed-down cyclist? |
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It's really a no-brainer and I can't help but feel that I should have been consulted. |
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What [Spacecoyote] said, word for word. |
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But parked or stopped cars opening their doors is
much more prevalent and dangerous. |
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// Having had my car's front end struck by a speeding cyclist as I exited an alleyway changed my perspective on the issue.// |
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I get that, but still, the damage to all concerned was cosmetic wasn't it? The vehicle might as well have been near stationary as far as any injuries were concerned, and a wary cyclist will be prepared for, and not speeding past, an alleyway anyhow. |
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The thousand-pound-hammers are momentum-less.
Still dangerous, but not inherently suicidal over a long period of time.
This law can only have been designed by committee... |
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That doesn't fly with me.
Human life can not be weighed against an insurance deductible when law 'forces' cyclists to ride in traffic whether they choose to or not.
The same damage can be done to your vehicle by any regular-old-asshole in any given parking lot...
same deductible. |
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Regards the cyclist rant - it has been noticed. Bike lanes are a thing. Widely known to exist, one might imagine. |
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The road is much safer for a motorcycle than it is for
a bicycle because the motorcycle can easily keep up
with traffic. |
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I'd prefer if cyclists were given the option, but if
they want to ride on the sidewalk, they must do so
safely. That means going slower in any situations
where there are other pedestrians, cross paths with
poor visibility, etc. |
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Lets sew them onto people's trousers while we're at
it. |
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I see the point of riding on the sidewalk: riding on the side of the outer lane with traffic zooming by scares the crap out of me (downtown doesn't bother me much - the traffic isn't moving all that fast - except for the constant fear of car doors). |
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My actual concern is suburbia, where cyclists don't dismount, which is the law, when crossing an appropriately marked intersection. One of these times I'm gonna be making a turn while scratching my nuts, or putting out a smoke, or changing the channel on the radio, or simply having concentrated on some other traffic concern while coming up to the corner, and some nitwit is going to splatter themselves across the side of my truck... I sincerely hope they don't break my radio aerial on the way: that would take all of 20 minutes to replace. |
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// Bicycling with traffic isn't just scary, it is
statistically more dangerous,// |
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Citation needed, since my understanding is that
the reverse is true. |
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And most roads cyclist ride on are 30-40mph
posted. Most cyclists travel 15-20 mph.
Therefore, they are doing about half the posted
speed. That is plenty of time for an over taking
driver to see and respond to the cyclist. |
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Most pedestrians do 2-3mph, and are on a narrow
little path with nowhere for the much faster
cyclist to go. |
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The closest I've ever been to being killed was
before I learned why sidewalks are bad ideas and I
pulled up onto one to avoid a construction site. |
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And I'll get a bicycle drivers license as soon as you
can explain to me how the bicycle is going to be
responsible for causing the damage. Drivers
licenses are not permission to use the roads (in
the US at least, that's guaranteed in the
constitution), they're permission to pilot a multi-
thousand pound weapon on the roads. |
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Yes, more bicycle safety training would be good,
but so would more training for drivers on the fact
that they don't have exclusive rights to the road. |
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And yes, I agree that cyclists who blow right
through lights and stop signs are idiots. Yes there
are idiots out there, but I've seen many drivers
decide to blow right through a red light, that's the
equivalent, not a rolling stop, which both also do
(and the cyclist can usually justify better, both
from a physics standpoint and a better view of
oncoming traffic). |
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All excellent points. I don't have any stats on whether they have determined riding on the road or the sidewalk to be safer, I just don't think any human has the right to force me to do so if I don't friggin want to. |
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Motorcyclists have drivers licenses and agree to the risk of driving a 'motorised' vehicle on a roadway. |
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As for bike-lanes, they are just great except;
When a driver is turning right or left and a cyclist zooms along side,
or when it's raining and the lanes become rivers, (guess I'll just have to edge into traffic since I'm not allowed to ride that nice elevated dry strip off to the side there...),
or on garbage, yard waste, and recycling pick-up days when the lanes are blocked, forcing riders even farther into traffic,
or the fact that you must pass through bike lanes to either park or enter most turning lanes around here, (that blind spot gets a whole lot bigger when it isn't a vehicle you're shoulder-checking for). |
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//The law is what it is. // |
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No.
The law is what we allow it to be. |
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// And I'll get a bicycle drivers license as soon as you can explain to me how the bicycle is going to be responsible for causing the damage. Drivers licenses are not permission to use the roads (in the US at least, that's guaranteed in the constitution), they're permission to pilot a multi- thousand pound weapon on the roads. // |
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You already possess a drivers license and so when I encounter you in a vehicle on the road I can assume that you've at least passed rudimentary training in its rules and code of conduct. They are forcing kids not even of driving age to use those same roadways with those multi-thousand-pound-weapons. |
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// Let's put the kind of injuries a bicycle can
inflict into perspective: the total mass of a rider +
backpack+ bicycle on a very narrow, very hard
striking surface moving faster than an NFL player
going in for a brutal tackle on someone who isn't
wearing any protective armor. If I found out Richie
Incognito was going to be sprinting up and down
the sidewalk in downtown Spokane, I'd expect
someone to go ahead of him and warn people
about it.// |
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Exactlly why I'm advocating being on the road, not
the sidewalk. The only one of that list that is not
easily repairable (and thus a civil, not criminal
issue) is the damage to pedestrians. |
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I'm with [21Q] on everything apart from the car
door business. A motorist should never open their
door on the road-side without checking in their
mirrors, whether for cyclists or other cars; and
injuries caused by a cyclist hitting the end of an
opening door can be pretty horrific. |
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Passengers should also check before opening the
kerb-side door, although in those cases the cyclist
bears a lot of the responsibility for passing on
the inside. |
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Bicycles and motorcycles are wheeled vehicles. In
general, both groups should behave responsibly in
traffic, and realize that they're not the only road
users. They don't belong on pavements. But only
the motorcyclists seem to understand these
points. |
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// Let's put the kind of injuries a bicycle can inflict into perspective: the total mass of a rider + backpack+ bicycle on a very narrow, very hard striking surface moving faster than an NFL player going in for a brutal tackle on someone who isn't wearing any protective armor. If I found out Richie Incognito was going to be sprinting up and down the sidewalk in downtown Spokane, I'd expect someone to go ahead of him and warn people about it.// |
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See I don't get this reasoning at all. I'll just rewrite that sentence and see if it makes more sense; |
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Let's put the kind of injuries a vehicle can inflict into perspective: the total mass of an operator + cargo + vehicle on a very narrow, very hard striking surface moving faster and with more force than any NFL player going in for a brutal tackle on someone who isn't wearing any protective armor could ever dream of. If I found out Richie Incognito was going to be sprinting up and down the sidewalk in downtown Spokane, I'd expect someone to go ahead of him and warn people about it. |
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I'll take my chances with the football tackle any
day. You can keep the Mack truck tackle all for yourself. |
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This is why I am advocating riding on the walks rather than the roads. |
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//It's tough to bring a cyclist *to* civil court, however, without a license to track down.// |
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Which is why I think one is needed before being allowed to ride in traffic. |
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This argument is getting rather cyclic and your points just reinforce my position.
Making people bike in traffic is a stupid law without regard for consequences. |
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I do not obey such laws, as they take away the right to think for myself and decide what "I" think is best for "my" own safety. |
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They have not the right, as I have not given it away.
I've ridden on sidewalks for close to forty years now without accident and will continue to do so. You may take your chances with the several-thousand-pound-weapons if you wish, but you can not force me to do the same without my consent. |
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If everyone suddenly began to cycle on the sidewalks en-masse they would really have no alternative but to repeal this victimless "law" now would they? |
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So, [2fries], can you explain how your argument
doesn't also apply to motocyclists? |
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Motorcycles are motorised vehicles, hence the moto part in their description, operators of motorcycles are required to possess a valid license, display a license plate and make their own choice to ride in traffic.
Bicycles are not motorised, require no license or plate, can not keep up with traffic and are yet forced to do so. |
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Motorcycles should not be on side-walks for the same reason that cyclists shouldn't be in traffic. |
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// I know a guy who got a $75 citation for doing that// |
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See what I mean?
By what right was this citizen punished?
Was there a victim of his "crime"?
Even so, 75 bucks is a lot cheaper than an ambulance ride, hospitalization, and potential paralysis, brain damage or funeral expenses. |
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Police are to catch criminals and maintain the peace, not harass the innocent with money-grabbing restrictions to their personal choices. |
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I am moral-abiding not law-abiding, unless those laws happen to overlap with my own moral judgement.
Laws change and many of them are outright jokes. Morals on the other hand seem to endure quite well with or without a nanny-state enforcing them.
Go figure... |
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//Bicycles are not motorised, require no license
or plate, can not keep up with traffic and are yet
forced to do so.// |
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That's a good point. It's time to introduce
licences and plates for cycling. I'd happily (well,
not cheerfully, but I'd do it) take a test if it meant
that all other cyclists had to similarly prove their
competence. |
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Cyclists should not have to pay road tax, however. |
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//Cyclists should not have to pay road tax...// sp. "near as much road tax". |
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// Whoever said you had a 'right' to bike on the sidewalks?// |
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// You can't give away something you never had to begin with.// |
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I have whatever rights I choose to resist being taken from me. Always have.
That includes the right to tell others trying to force me to ride in traffic, if and when "I" don't feel it safe, to fuck right off.
It really doesn't matter to me what their tile may be, or how many strings of letters they have after their name, or how swanky their uniforms and guns are.
They can rough me up, or incarcerate me, or fine me, or shoot me... but they can't take away my right to protect myself from their stupidity. |
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//I thought the road tax was that extra few cents
per gallon we pay for fuel.// |
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Ah, OK, in the UK drivers also pay an annual road
tax,
just to make sure they're properly screwed. |
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//They can rough me up, or incarcerate me, or
fine me, or shoot me... but they can't take away
my right to protect myself from their stupidity.//
There speaks an upstanding citizen with a short
life expectancy. Still, if everyone had the
bollocks to decide that they have the right to do
whatever
they like, the world would be a more fun place for
everyone. It's values like that that make a society
worth being shot for. |
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Incidentally, you know what would be really cool?
Some means to cancel
crosswalk lights after people have crossed, to
avoid delaying road users
unnecessarily. |
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Seriously though, I don't feel I have any right to do anything I want.
I just don't listen when other people tell me I have to put myself in harms way because they say so.
Have you given this right away? |
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No, not really. I just learned to cycle properly.
People trying to cycle on the pavements in
Cambridge tend to get umbrellas unexpectedly stuck
in their spokes. |
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On the other hand, I drive on the pavement if I feel
safer there. |
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I dunno, maybe it's just because we've got enough personal space to be able to swing a dead cat without hitting each other here, but people, (I'm far from the only one), are getting a little fed up with the barrage of money grubbing rules and regs from those who are supposed to serve us.
The Canadian gun registry debacle is a good example of the feedback people are starting to display towards actions we know are really not in our best interests. |
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It sounds vain but true nonetheless, if everyone shared my morals we wouldn't need laws. |
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I'll give you an example, (Yes, I know you don't really want an example but if you would please indulge me). |
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As a sub contractor, whichever company I am currently working for is required by law to pay fees for me to the Workers Compensation Board, (WCB) if I have not obtained my own number.
None of them pay this fee. The loop-hole they've found around this cost is to charge an administration fee equal to what they are required to cough up.
One shop I worked for charged an enormous nine percent WCB fee and for the three years I worked for them their bookkeeper erroneously tagged it this nine percent of my wages as WCB withdrawal on my pay-stubs. |
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Now "legally" I need do nothing more than send a letter asking WCB to explain this discrepancy to me and the cheque this company would have to cut me for nine percent of three years of my wages comes to the tidy sum of twenty seven thousand dollars. |
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I could really use twenty seven thousand dollars, and legally I can claim it... morally on the other hand, I can not.
Laws have no soul, and change at the whim of whoever is lining pockets nowadays. |
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I'll just keep sticking to my morals thanks, and time will tell which of us has the shorter life expectancy. |
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Aw crap, I just went full-on self righteous twat again didn't I?
<heavy sigh> |
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//bicycles can (and frequently do) keep up with
the stop-and-go traffic in crowded downtown
areas// |
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I was riding along on my slow bike this morning,
contemplating the wisdom of putting buses and
bikes in the same lane. On average, they are about
the same speed, the busses stopping every block
or so and the bikes having a slower peak speed.
However, the bikes kind of ruin it for the buses,
because when driving behind a couple of bikes,
the bus is limited to bike speed AND they have to
stop more often. |
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//people, (I'm far from the only one), are getting
a little fed up with the barrage of money grubbing
rules and regs from those who are supposed to
serve us.// Same here. |
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//Aw crap, I just went full-on self righteous twat
again didn't I?// That's OK. I believe it's
permitted (in fact, encouraged) on posts dealing
with guns, cycling or taxes. |
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It may be worth starting a thread proposing a tax
on bicycle-mounted gun racks, just to see what
happens. |
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OK, I have not read through all the personal stories
here, but I bun the idea. Where I drive (as
opposed to where I live) motor cyclists have far
more respect for vehicle drivers than do bicycle
people. The people on pedal bikes seem to have
some arrogant notion that they are more
important and that YOU must watch out for them!
Bikers here all follow a code of conduct which
states not to follow too closely (be it a car or
another bike); to always signal turns; and to
basically obey all traffic laws. Of course there will
always be one who might not adhere to all these. |
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[-] back to the idea: I can't see how this could be
safe. |
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I mean, if a little old lady sees she has 14 seconds
left, & just starts off the curb, someone might not
see, & press the cancel button. The cars won't
necessarily see her, esp. if she's in that dead-zone of
the wide radius for turns. |
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The cross button would face the curb, same as now, and the stop-cross button would face the street. Anyone about to cross could cancel the stop-cross button before crossing. The little old lady will be seen the same as she would be at un-lit crosswalks. |
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You could always recruit Boy Scouts to walk the old
ladies across! |
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