h a l f b a k e r yA riddle wrapped in a mystery inside a rich, flaky crust
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My main concern about posting an Idea on this site "if i had a good one that someone would actually wanted to take" is that someone would take my idea and copy it.
Let's say I had an idea that was very lucrative and beneficial and easy to do, what would protect it from being stolen? Well my idea
is to have an official documentation on this site that kept track of who made it and when and where, the ideas would be patented by this site and if someone would like to purchase the paten from someone who made it then the site would collect commission on it. The site would also advertise to companies who may be interested in the idea and try to sell it to them, kind of like an online paten office.
I hope that one day we could have this on this site, maybe more people would feel free to share ideas and more inventions could be made.
ideas marketplace
Ideas_20marketplace
my take on the whole "how to share ideas and potentially profit" [xaviergisz, Mar 29 2006]
[link]
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There is an obvious problem : say I post an idea - it's a reasonably good idea, but not great. [half] makes a comment that makes it infinitely more marketable, and I go off to the patent/copyright office. What entitlements does [half] have? |
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I guess this is no more a problem here than in any physical situation, but since this site is geared towards collaboration and discussion, I can see it coming up a lot. |
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You have nothing to worry about, Joe. |
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//Let's say I had an idea that was very lucrative and beneficial and easy to do// |
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(that's a pretty big stretch for my wee imagination...) |
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it seems you've some conflicting interests: you want 'protection' of ideas, but you also seek that you can benefit financially from them via advertising or commission. |
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How about, when you come up with something 'lucrative, beneficial and easy to do' you just implement it rather than posting it on a public forum |
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//the ideas would be patented by this site// I think you have to be a person to patent an idea. Also I'm certain that it costs money. I somehow doubt t-shirt sales pay juta enough to patent even a few of the good ideas on the bakery. |
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This discussion also took place in the "Why Not" post ... but I figure if I have some really super-great idea, I'll keep it to myself until I get it patented, or copyrighted, or what have you ... |
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(The following post is utterly, wildly incorrect. Kudos to [Kitchensink] for correcting them below.) |
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//You don't copyright ideas, you patent them.// |
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Not necessarily. If your idea doesn't involve any new invention, but a new design, it can only be copyrighted. And even then, maybe not. For example, Halfbakery pencils can't be patented, but they can be copyrighted. [AO]'s Coffee Cup Watermark can't be patented (or even copyrighted, for that matter) - but that's not to say it doesn't belong here, or is a bad idea. |
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Correct me if I'm wrong, though. :) |
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PS. //Don't think it has yet.// |
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I meant in the context of this idea being implemented. |
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I just realised that [Joe] was talking about the *site* patenting these things, and not the authors. So my first annotation is irrelevant. |
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[drcalculus] You should put some ointment on that. |
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This idea strikes me as the 'yin' to [netmender's] 'yang.' Maybe if we throw the one at the other they'll destroy themselves in a puff of cultural-continuance in profitability vs. logic. |
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Or open up a destructive rip in the space-time-continuum ... like placing a lock of Mick Gager's hair in a microwave, and setting the time to 6:51 ... that opens a portal to a sick, terrible paralell universe |
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Ahh, let's see…where do I start? I am a mechanical design engineer, by trade. I also happen to be a registered U.S. patent agent. I stumbled into this site for the first time, last week. I had never heard of it before, but apparently a lot of people have. Clinically speaking, I became an addict almost instantly. Of course, it was just a matter of time until I got curiously bored, and decided search this site with the word "patent." And there I was. |
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In reading through some of the discussion threads regarding the potential role of this website in the patent scheme of things, I became more and more uneasy, thinking that I probably shouldn't interfere with these ongoing discussions…as much as I'd like to. My reluctance to get involved came from not wanting to disrupt my own experiences here in the future, or irreversibly alter them somehow. |
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After the past few days that I've spent visiting this site (probably more frequently than any website I can remember), I can say in confidence that this is a very special place. To me, it has quickly become almost precious. I mean, some of the comedy is unbearable. I wouldn't know where to start describing this place. All I know is that, for me, this is just too good to jeopardize, in any way. But, after thinking about it for a while, with some particular patent-related discussions in mind, I resolved to the fact that I'd rather help, than sit back and do nothing. |
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Some of you already have a pretty good grasp on the subject of intellectual property. But, there is some misinformation being generated that is undoubtedly affecting the course of human history, as we speak. So, at least it's worth going over, even if it only helps a few individuals. I can imagine that some of you have come real close to suddenly grasping the undeniable potential of this place. As a group, you're on the right track as well, for the most part. I mean, it's fun to watch, but I gotta say, I feel personally obliged to push some of you forward. I just want to mention a few things… before I continue on with this. |
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First of all, this place is a treasure in every sense of the word. I should start by acknowledging its creator, [jutta] (if I've got my facts straight). My thanks and admiration goes out to you. My first thought has been that I wouldn't change a thing, especially if it meant possibly throwing things outta whack. And, I'm assuming most of you have known for a while, what I already know about this place -- after less than a week. |
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It is a living thing, this…this creature. All of you are the life of it…and it's not going anywhere (ever, I think). The fact that many of you have been around for years now, says quite a lot. I get the feeling that if the internet crashed and burned to the ground tomorrow, we'd all just wait around, until someone could confirm that [jutta] was back up and running the half-bakery somewhere…anywherre. I'm gonna shutup about this now. |
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I just want to make my own impressions clear, because much of what I'm about to suggest would necessarily include a solid body of trust, to guarantee its "momentum…" and I've already seen signs that there's more than enough of that to go off of. As a member of the US Patent Bar, I can inform you that just about anything I could say about intellectual property would be directly based on the rules and laws governing the procedures of the USPTO. It would be considered unethical for me to intentionally lead anyone astray, or to give any advice that I did not actually believe to be valid. Not only that, but if and when the time came to preserve confidentiality--even as a group--I would stand to lose a lot more than most of you would, if I did not maintain that privacy. |
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On a daily basis, I'm seeing one good idea after another just pop up from outta nowhere, and promptly become a matter of public discussion. I am amazed by how efficiently this operates. Yet, I'm still getting to know it more and more. Let me just add that, as long as this database remained faithfully intact, it is entirely feasible to preserve it as a standing record of what has already been disclosed and discussed up to now. More to the point, even if only a few unrelated members had printed copies of this database history, and they were each willing to attest to its authenticity and accuracy, with respect to the listing dates and the topics discussed, that would constructively amount to the same thing.. |
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If the overall objective was to inherently maximize the ongoing legacy of this database, then there are various details that would need to be tended to. I'm not about to develop them here, or right now. But, if that ever becomes a determined effort, then I'm sure it will gradually evolve itself, one way or another. I would just be glad to be a part of it. |
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So, let me just start at the top of this page, and comment on a few of these writings. Sorry [JoeLounsbury], but I need to use you as a guinea pig…and a darn good one I might add. You throw some ambitious and seemingly spirited ideas out there, bless your heart and thanks. If it were as easy as you try to make it sound, people would already be doing it. Either you don't know nearly enough about what you're after, or you think you're clever enough to conceal it without having to share. In either case, your suggestions don't seem to deserve very much consideration at all. I hope I never say that again. I feel your pain though, I feel your pain. But, you're not coming up with anything new… and somehow that seems obvious to you, as it is. Yet, you would gladly take the credit for something that attracted you to it, in the first place. I wonder if you realize how unlikely it would be, though. You may not get what you want, until you earn it. Would you buy that? |
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I have no choice but to assume that all of you only want what you're fairly entitled to. That makes it easy, because all you need to know is that it could only happen as a substantially cooperative effort, in this environment. The cool thing is, it doesn't stand a chance of happening anywhere BUT here, because clearly, there is already too much going on. The foundation here is the backbone, as well as the driving force. In a bunch of ways, it is probably beyond comparison to anything else on the globe -- by far. Now, back to the comments… |
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[Detly], what entitlements does [half] have? HALF! |
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Excellent, and this is huge…the one who first defines the core of an idea clearly, is the one who owns it. That's assuming it's original, of course. But here's the kicker…if anyone else adds something to it, then they may be considered a co-inventor of the derived form of the original item. However, it is at the entire discretion of the creator(s) of the original form, as to whether or not to pursue any or all derived forms. In simpler terms, play nice with the other kids. |
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Here's an example: just recently I reviewed an entry by [mistipisti] or something close to that. (I know, you can forgive, but you can never forget.) It was for the gas tank idea. I kicked it around a little, and then recognized an opportunity to do new things with fuel temperature. Doing this makes it possible to burn good ol' gasoline much more efficiently! Right out of the gate…more power, more mileage, less pollution, less engine heat…Bam!!! But, [misti] had a great idea to begin with -- moving the tank to the safest spot on the car, and doing the thing with the filler tube and the visible level. |
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Now, this is how it works. [misti] owns any portion having to do with relocating the tank, visible gas level, and… maybe the filler position, maybe not. And, although it may not have been immediately obvious to [misti] to strengthen the tank and everything around it, I'd have no right to that at all, even though I thought of it. Why? Because, in all reasonable fairness, I would not have even thought of it without knowing about [misti]'s idea first. So, even if I wanted to keep the tank under the vehicle and reinforce it there -- for safety reasons involving heated fuel …I wouldn't even be entitled to THAT idea, hypothetically. |
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However, [misti] is in no way entitled to a pre-heating fuel system that replaces the fuel injector with a well-constructed design for fuel delivery, using passive orifices or nozzles. |
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So [misti] has a choice, one is to claim the new tank location and reinforcement (thanks to me -- and without my consent, even)…or two, [misti] may opt to pursue the heated fuel system along with the tank location. But, she would have to include me as a co-inventor…only for the fuel-heating system. However, I would still have the option of refusing to let [misti] include that part…not that I'd have any reason to, since I couldn't do anything with it on my own. Phewww… |
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Now, getting back to this [joe's page]. [Seedy em], that's a good remark. I would've said, "…benefit financially from the "ideas", to the exclusion of others, via the help that they'd give you." |
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[UnaBubba]'s comment kinda speaks for itself. |
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Sir [RobertKidney] of Connecticut, Kentucky -- I presume…Your right, you do have to be a person to patent an idea, or two people, or five. But it can't be a company or an organization, and it can't be someone that did not contribute to the merit of the invention. letsbuildafort?…there's no need to. |
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[Detly]…you're wrong. But that's alright. For the record, a new design can be patented as a cosmetic design, with a design patent. Pencils may bear a trademark, but they can't be patented OR copyrighted, unless they come with something unique and original. Coffee cup watermark can definitely be patented for utility, and copyrighted for the insignia itself. |
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[jutta] yeah, it would have to be the original creator(s). But there is a whole, whole lot you can do. That's all I can really say at this point. |
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No [Detly], I honestly don't think it was irrelevent. |
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[Una] I wish I could respond to that here. |
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[drcalculus] You should put some ointment on that. BTW, do you know calculus??? Are you good? |
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[RayfordSteele] See? That's what I love about this place! |
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[Letsbuildafort?] Is it that easy? Should I be writing some of this down? |
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//some of the comedy is unbearable//
I hope that is a typo. |
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You don't have a twin brother named Vernon, do you? |
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//Sir [RobertKidney] of Connecticut, Kentucky -- I presume…// Heh, no. Who is he? |
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[krelnik], no, he doesn't.
[Kitchensink], I feel obliged to mention that there already is a posting here about heated gasoline.
http://www.halfbakery.com/idea/Boiled_20Gasoline_20Engine#1073513310 |
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This has to be a concern of all halfbakery users at some point in time. |
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My question is, is there any intellectual property protection here? Apparently this site is easily hacked with anonymous user names, etc. etc. Even if there was an exceptional patentable idea how could I prove that I am in fact "Asinine" (quotes are important). |
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I read a idea for voodoo ginger bread people the other day and thought that would be an easy little eBay business to start. Are only my personal ethics to stop me from doing that? |
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Isn't at least part of the allure to this place that our imaginations can spawn something great, and that the spawned greatness could prove lucrative? |
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So, what do I risk stealing someones idea and putting it to action? And what (if any) protection do I have that my apathy with respect to any potential idea I might have won't be stolen? |
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It would of course destroy the uniquness of this place if it became a profit engine, but it would be great if it could develop a marketplace for ideas. For instance, how much (nominal or royalty based) would someone want for such and such an idea - i.e. Business -> Advertising: Ad Campaigns!?!? |
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At the risk of commenting above my station: This place is about sharing poorly thought-out ideas. Not profit, not design improvements, not trying out your inventions before you patent them. |
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If you are concerned about your ideas being developed and profited from without your consent, go patent them before you post them or share them only with your cat. |
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<edit 31/03/06> Not-so-poorly-thought-out ideas are also discussed here. </e> |
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//This has to be a concern of all halfbakery users at some point in time. //
No it doesn't! I agree entirely with methinksnot. Well, except for the bit about trusting the cat. |
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Eh, people bake our ideas all the time. No one seems to mind. |
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I don't think any part of this is true. Can you be more specific? What halfbakery posts to you know to have resulted in a real product that was truly based on its seller having read this site (rather than being cases of coevolution?) |
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I'm curious about this because I get asked this question all the time ("have any ideas ever been turned into real products?"), and don't really have a good answer. |
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